Kaplan: Royals interested in Z

[Hairyducked Idiot]

So we should put up with childish antics from someone who is an average starter in a below average rotation?

 

Yes, because the alternatives are worse. We're okay with childish antics if they help us win, remember? He helps us win.

 

1971 Ron Santo was a 2.7 WAR player. 2011 Carlos Zambrano was on pace for right about that when he was booted off the team.

 

You seem like you have an axe to grind.

 

Against the lazy, racist Chicago media and hypocritical fans? You betcha.

Edited November 9, 2011 by Hairyducked Idiot

[jersey cubs fan]

So we should put up with childish antics from someone who is an average starter in a below average rotation?

 

You should put up with childish antics because these are a bunch of overgrown overpaid overly celebrated children playing a children's game. Who cares about childish antics?

 

 

Aside from Jerry Sandusky.

[Old Style]

So we should put up with childish antics from someone who is an average starter in a below average rotation?

 

Yes' date=' because the alternatives are worse. We're okay with childish antics if they help us win, remember? He helps us win.

 

1971 Ron Santo was a 2.7 WAR player. 2011 Carlos Zambrano was on pace for right about that when he was booted off the team.[/quote']

Admittedly I'm not a numbers geek like many people here, but is it fair to compare WAR from a third basemen to a pitcher?

 

You seem like you have an axe to grind.

 

Against the lazy, racist Chicago media and hypocritical fans? You betcha.

Well I guess you should put me on ignore then. In your eyes I am a hypocrite and my opinion is worthless.

Edited November 9, 2011 by Old Style

[Old Style]

So we should put up with childish antics from someone who is an average starter in a below average rotation?

 

You should put up with childish antics because these are a bunch of overgrown overpaid overly celebrated children playing a children's game. Who cares about childish antics?

If it is counterproductive to the team winning games, then everyone should.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Admittedly I'm not a numbers geek like many people here, but is it fair to compare WAR from a third basemen to a pitcher?

 

Completely fair. The primary use of WAR is to be able to compare the general value of players across different roles and positions.

 

 

Well I guess you should put me on ignore then. In your eyes I am a hypocrite and my opinion is worthless.

 

I'm not going to put you on ignore just because I disagree with you.

[SouthSideRyan]

So we should put up with childish antics from someone who is an average starter in a below average rotation?

 

You should put up with childish antics because these are a bunch of overgrown overpaid overly celebrated children playing a children's game. Who cares about childish antics?

If it is counterproductive to the team winning games, then everyone should.

 

The last time Zambrano's behavior cost the Cubs a game was 2007.

 

And that's only because we were running Rob Bowen out there every other day rather than calling up Soto. I'll give him half-blame.

Edited November 9, 2011 by SouthSideRyan

[Old Style]

So we should put up with childish antics from someone who is an average starter in a below average rotation?

 

You should put up with childish antics because these are a bunch of overgrown overpaid overly celebrated children playing a children's game. Who cares about childish antics?

If it is counterproductive to the team winning games, then everyone should.

 

The last time Zambrano's behavior cost the Cubs a game was 2006.

 

And that's only because we were running Rob Bowen out there every other day rather than calling up Soto. I'll give him half-blame.

So him being emotionally out of control on the mound has not caused him to pitch below his capabilities?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Nice try. Rob Bowen wasn't on the team until 2007.

 

(I only know this because I completely forgot who Rob Bowen was and had to look him up)

[SouthSideRyan]

Nice try. Rob Bowen wasn't on the team until 2007.

 

(I only know this because I completely forgot who Rob Bowen was and had to look him up)

 

I was watching football at the time.

[SouthSideRyan]

So we should put up with childish antics from someone who is an average starter in a below average rotation?

 

You should put up with childish antics because these are a bunch of overgrown overpaid overly celebrated children playing a children's game. Who cares about childish antics?

If it is counterproductive to the team winning games, then everyone should.

 

The last time Zambrano's behavior cost the Cubs a game was 2006.

 

And that's only because we were running Rob Bowen out there every other day rather than calling up Soto. I'll give him half-blame.

So him being emotionally out of control on the mound has not caused him to pitch below his capabilities?

 

No.

[Old Style]

In the end it doesn't really matter what any of us here think. If Theo decides that the best option is to give Z another shot, then I am completely fine with it. I still have my Zambrano jersey shirt in the closet along with my other Cubs gear. If he decides to trade him, then I am completely fine with that decision as well.

[davearm2]

You should put up with childish antics because these are a bunch of overgrown overpaid overly celebrated children playing a children's game. Who cares about childish antics?

I'm sure you heard Theo Epstein in his introductory press conference, talking about all the silly intangible BS clubhouse cliches that you and others here love to mock.

 

So who's right: Epstein, who thinks these more abstract, not readily quantifiable things matter, or you, who thinks they don't?

 

Because if Epstein is right, then Zambrano's behavior has been a detriment to the team for years.

[SouthSideRyan]

You should put up with childish antics because these are a bunch of overgrown overpaid overly celebrated children playing a children's game. Who cares about childish antics?

I'm sure you heard Theo Epstein in his introductory press conference, talking about all the silly intangible BS clubhouse cliches that you and others here love to mock.

 

So who's right: Epstein, who thinks these more abstract, not readily quantifiable things matter, or you, who thinks they don't?

 

Because if Epstein is right, then Zambrano's behavior has been a detriment to the team for years.

 

I'm sure you heard Epstein allude to the fact that he's fine with that big meanie Zambrano coming to the team. I seriously want you or any of your ilk to provide me one example of a player who has performed worse because Zambrano called them names at recess.

[CUBZ99]

Admittedly I'm not a numbers geek like many people here, but is it fair to compare WAR from a third basemen to a pitcher?

 

Completely fair. The primary use of WAR is to be able to compare the general value of players across different roles and positions.

 

Regarding WAR with a pitcher, you have to wonder how useful offensive WAR is. Last year Dontrelle Willis had a combined WAR that was equivalent of Zambrano, and I sure the hell wouldn't want him in the rotation. Personally I would much rather prefer a pitcher that was good at pitching.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Admittedly I'm not a numbers geek like many people here, but is it fair to compare WAR from a third basemen to a pitcher?

 

Completely fair. The primary use of WAR is to be able to compare the general value of players across different roles and positions.

 

Regarding WAR with a pitcher, you have to wonder how useful offensive WAR is. Last year Dontrelle Willis had a combined WAR that was equivalent of Zambrano, and I sure the hell wouldn't want him in the rotation. Personally I would much rather prefer a pitcher that was good at pitching.

 

I'd take Willis over many of the pitchers who started games for the 2011 Cubs.

[CUBZ99]

Admittedly I'm not a numbers geek like many people here, but is it fair to compare WAR from a third basemen to a pitcher?

 

Completely fair. The primary use of WAR is to be able to compare the general value of players across different roles and positions.

 

Regarding WAR with a pitcher, you have to wonder how useful offensive WAR is. Last year Dontrelle Willis had a combined WAR that was equivalent of Zambrano, and I sure the hell wouldn't want him in the rotation. Personally I would much rather prefer a pitcher that was good at pitching.

 

I'd take Willis over many of the pitchers who started games for the 2011 Cubs.

 

Yeah, and I would take a kick in the shin over a kick in the groin.

[Geech]

Admittedly I'm not a numbers geek like many people here, but is it fair to compare WAR from a third basemen to a pitcher?

 

Completely fair. The primary use of WAR is to be able to compare the general value of players across different roles and positions.

 

Regarding WAR with a pitcher, you have to wonder how useful offensive WAR is. Last year Dontrelle Willis had a combined WAR that was equivalent of Zambrano, and I sure the hell wouldn't want him in the rotation. Personally I would much rather prefer a pitcher that was good at pitching.

 

Why is that your question about WAR with a pitcher? Offensive stats are almost certainly more trustworthy than pitching stats.

[seanimal]

You should put up with childish antics because these are a bunch of overgrown overpaid overly celebrated children playing a children's game. Who cares about childish antics?

I'm sure you heard Theo Epstein in his introductory press conference, talking about all the silly intangible BS clubhouse cliches that you and others here love to mock.

 

i think you may have been reading into whatever comments you're referencing. the 'cubs way' is about a winning mindset and playing the game with intelligence and discipline. kind of like boston, home of such intangible greats and clubhouse anti-cancers like manny ramirez, jd drew, and john lackey.

[davearm2]

You should put up with childish antics because these are a bunch of overgrown overpaid overly celebrated children playing a children's game. Who cares about childish antics?

I'm sure you heard Theo Epstein in his introductory press conference, talking about all the silly intangible BS clubhouse cliches that you and others here love to mock.

 

So who's right: Epstein, who thinks these more abstract, not readily quantifiable things matter, or you, who thinks they don't?

 

Because if Epstein is right, then Zambrano's behavior has been a detriment to the team for years.

 

I'm sure you heard Epstein allude to the fact that he's fine with that big meanie Zambrano coming to the team. I seriously want you or any of your ilk to provide me one example of a player who has performed worse because Zambrano called them names at recess.

So you think you're right, and Epstein is wrong.

 

What other reason would he have for promoting a harmonious clubhouse, if not to maximize the players' production?

 

Why bother if there's no impact on the field, as you suggest?

[Sammy Sofa]

Nobody tell dave the things that made the Red Sox clubhouse so harmonious during Theo's tenure there.

[SouthSideRyan]

What other reason would he have for promoting a harmonious clubhouse, if not to maximize the players' production?

 

Why bother if there's no impact on the field, as you suggest?

 

To appease people like you and Dave Kaplan.

[Hollandsworths mug]

Ernie Banks

Fergie Jenkins

Billy Williams

Lee Smith

Andre Dawson

 

Now, tell me, how many in this bunch were ripped by the media and fans for being lazy? How many were the target of racism by Cubs fans?

 

If the answer is none of them, could it be that they, you know, actually performed and were great teammates?

 

Na, couldn't be.

[Sammy Sofa]

Slave-owners loved [expletive] their slaves.

[Hollandsworths mug]

It's fun shooting down idiotic theories and suggestions of racism by people who have no clue about what they're talking about.

[Sammy Sofa]

Why do you care if anyone calls Kaplan a racist?