Kaplan: Royals interested in Z

[A New Era]

Hopefully if Epstein can't get what he considers good value he keeps Zambrano. It would be worth it just for the fact to piss kaplan off. He'll be thinking "WHUT!! OMG WTF WHY DID U KEEP Z!!"

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Hopefully if Epstein can't get what he considers good value he keeps Zambrano. It would be worth it just for the fact to piss kaplan off. He'll be thinking "WHUT!! OMG WTF WHY DID U KEEP Z!!"

 

Can't you see how brown lazy and disruptive he is?

[Old Style]

If the game was played on paper there'd be no reason to trade Z. Unfortunately there is more to it than that.

 

See the sig.

 

There'd be no reason Zambrano couldn't be allowed back except for a few people inside and outside the organization grinding an axe and looking for a scapegoat.

Attacked people in the clubhouse? Ron Santo. Quit on his team? Ryne Sandberg. Punched a teammate? Michael Jordan. Free Carlos.

What goes on in the clubhouse or on the practice court is different then attacking your teammate in the dugout during the middle of the game when there are plenty of TV cameras to catch every second of it. Someone will have to refresh my memory on Ryno quitting on his team. I seem to remember him retiring abruptly in the middle of one season because of issues at home. Is that it? If so, that is a huge difference than quitting because you are sucking ass at your job. Look at the reactions we got from other Cub players about Z. They didn't hide the fact that his continued BS has gotten old. Jordan may have been a demanding bully, but he sure got results. Santo & Sandberg were (or should be) HOFers. Z doesn't fit into any of those categories.

[SouthSideRyan]

If so, that is a huge difference than quitting because you are sucking ass at your job.

 

Ryne Sandberg '94: .238 .312 .390

Carlos Zambrano '11: .318 .348 .500

[Hairyducked Idiot]

What goes on in the clubhouse or on the practice court is different then attacking your teammate in the dugout during the middle of the game when there are plenty of TV cameras to catch every second of it. Someone will have to refresh my memory on Ryno quitting on his team. I seem to remember him retiring abruptly in the middle of one season because of issues at home. Is that it? If so, that is a huge difference than quitting because you are sucking ass at your job. Look at the reactions we got from other Cub players about Z. They didn't hide the fact that his continued BS has gotten old. Jordan may have been a demanding bully, but he sure got results. Santo & Sandberg were (or should be) HOFers. Z doesn't fit into any of those categories.

 

So choking out your coach in the clubhouse and having to be pulled off of him is okay, but punching your teammate isn't because it's in the dugout and not the clubhouse.

 

Quitting on your team and meaning it in the middle of a season is okay, but getting mad and saying you quit without really meaning it is bad .

 

Being a continued jerk every day of your life except when cameras are pointed at you is okay, but Zambrano's continued antics aren't.

 

It's all okay because they were HOFers, though. Nope, no personal vendetta/scapegoating going on here...

Edited November 9, 2011 by Hairyducked Idiot

[SouthSideRyan]

And the difference in teammate fights is whether the buffoons in the media see it?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

And the difference in teammate fights is whether the buffoons in the media see it?

 

It wasn't even a teammate. Santo went Sprewell on his manager. But he's just "colorful" because, well, I'll let the people who see a difference explain their motivations themselves.

[Old Style]

I have no "personal vendetta" against Z and I am not scapegoating him for anything. I wish he would've lived up to his potential while playing for the Cubs. But he has been given numerous chances. I think it's time he try someplace new. Now before anyone accuses me of wanting to "dump" him, I still think we need to make a smart deal when/if we trade Zambrano.

[Old Style]

And the difference in teammate fights is whether the buffoons in the media see it?

 

It wasn't even a teammate. Santo went Sprewell on his manager. But he's just "colorful" because, well, I'll let the people who see a difference explain their motivations themselves.

Quite honestly I don't know anything about this Santo incident. I'm sure that somehow makes me less qualified to comment on Z.

[KingCubsFan]

It's all okay because they were HOFers, though.

I know you're saying it sarcastically, but it's true. Teams (and fans) have a much higher threshold for transgressions when the player is really good. That's why it's not fair to compare Z at this stage of his career to athletes like Jordan. A better comparison would be Terrell Owens.

[Old Style]

It's all okay because they were HOFers, though.

I know you're saying it sarcastically, but it's true. Teams (and fans) have a much higher threshold for transgressions when the player is really good. That's why it's not fair to compare Z at this stage of his career to athletes like Jordan. A better comparison would be Terrell Owens.

Agreed. And while the Bears could really use a great WR (assuming TO could still be that), I would not sign him if I were the GM of the Bears.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Quite honestly I don't know anything about this Santo incident. I'm sure that somehow makes me less qualified to comment on Z.

 

1971, Cubs are on a little bit of a surge at 70-60 but still six games out and don't look like they have much of a chance. The players and managers are going to have a "clear the air" meeting.

 

Durocher and Santo never got along. Durocher was a jerk and Santo was basically Zambrano: Emotional, prone to outbursts, etc.

 

Santo had "Ron Santo Day" coming up, and Durocher was getting on him about it, saying it wasn't something the team needed right now when they should be focusing on baseball or something stupid like that. They got into an argument, it escalated, Santo attacked Durocher, choked him and had to be pulled off him.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It's all okay because they were HOFers, though.

I know you're saying it sarcastically, but it's true. Teams (and fans) have a much higher threshold for transgressions when the player is really good. That's why it's not fair to compare Z at this stage of his career to athletes like Jordan. A better comparison would be Terrell Owens.

 

I understand that's why people are giving a pass to their favorite athletes and trying to run Zambrano out of town. I'm simply saying that's a terrible, hypocritical reason.

[Old Style]

It's all okay because they were HOFers, though.

I know you're saying it sarcastically, but it's true. Teams (and fans) have a much higher threshold for transgressions when the player is really good. That's why it's not fair to compare Z at this stage of his career to athletes like Jordan. A better comparison would be Terrell Owens.

 

I understand that's why people are giving a pass to their favorite athletes and trying to run Zambrano out of town. I'm simply saying that's a terrible, hypocritical reason.

Whether or not someone is my favorite player doesn't matter. It's about wins & losses. If someone is helping you win they can act like a jerk more than someone who isn't helping you win. See: Dennis Rodman.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

And the difference in teammate fights is whether the buffoons in the media see it?

 

It's whether the media dislikes you enough to report it, and whether your organization needs someone to blame for their own failures.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Whether or not someone is my favorite player doesn't matter. It's about wins & losses. If someone is helping you win they can act like a jerk more than someone who isn't helping you win. See: Dennis Rodman.

 

Then we're in agreement: We can put up with Zambrano, because he can certainly help the Cubs win in 2012.

[Hollandsworths mug]

Is Todd Hundley and Dave Veres brown? On the other side of town, Adam Dunn, Bobby Jenks last year? The race card you guys play is laughable. Perhaps fans/media boo and whale on players because of lack of performance?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Is Todd Hundley and Dave Veres brown? On the other side of town, Adam Dunn, Bobby Jenks last year? The race card you guys play is laughable. Perhaps fans boo and get whaled on because of lack of performance?

 

Todd Hundley was the last white scapegoat in a long line of scapegoats. That's exactly my point.

 

Nobody's saying race is the only factor. I'm simply saying it's a contributing factor. White players get the "scrappy, good clubhouse guy" label a little more quickly, black players get to be "natural athletes" unless they are too crazy like Milton Bradley, and Hispanic players pretty much default to "lazy and selfish" if anything goes wrong with their game.

[Hollandsworths mug]

Is Todd Hundley and Dave Veres brown? On the other side of town, Adam Dunn, Bobby Jenks last year? The race card you guys play is laughable. Perhaps fans boo and get whaled on because of lack of performance?

 

Todd Hundley was the last white scapegoat in a long line of scapegoats. That's exactly my point.

 

Nobody's saying race is the only factor. I'm simply saying it's a contributing factor. White players get the "scrappy, good clubhouse guy" label a little more quickly, black players get to be "natural athletes" unless they are too crazy like Milton Bradley, and Hispanic players pretty much default to "lazy and selfish" if anything goes wrong with their game.

 

Aramis, Z and Sosa were on the receiving end of many standing ovations from Cubs fans throughout the years at Wrigley. They were embraced and loved because they performed. The skin color has nothing to do with it.

[SouthSideRyan]

lol Dave Veres.

[Old Style]

Whether or not someone is my favorite player doesn't matter. It's about wins & losses. If someone is helping you win they can act like a jerk more than someone who isn't helping you win. See: Dennis Rodman.

 

Then we're in agreement: We can put up with Zambrano, because he can certainly help the Cubs win in 2012.

If Theo/Maddux/whoever can sprinkle some pixie dust on Z and make him pitch like we all know he is capable, then [expletive] yeah I want to see him come back. How possible is that, though? At some point you have to move on.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Aramis, Z and Sosa were on the receiving end of many standing ovations from Cubs fans throughout the years at Wrigley. They were embraced and loved because they performed. The skin color has nothing to do with it.

 

And when things started to turn bad, they were all run out of town and labeled lazy, selfish, and clubhouse cancers.

 

A fate that Ron "Sprewell" Santo, Ryne "Quitter" Sandberg and Mark "Drunky McDrunk" Grace all mysteriously avoided.

 

It's a testament to exactly how big of a jerk Todd Hundley was that he was made honorarily Hispanic.

Edited November 9, 2011 by Hairyducked Idiot

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If Theo/Maddux/whoever can sprinkle some pixie dust on Z and make him pitch like we all know he is capable, then [expletive] yeah I want to see him come back. How possible is that, though? At some point you have to move on.

 

Even if he pitches exactly as he did in 2011, his worst season, he's still the third-best starting pitcher we have under contract, at worst.

[Old Style]

And I concur that the whole racism angle is WAY overblown.

[Old Style]

If Theo/Maddux/whoever can sprinkle some pixie dust on Z and make him pitch like we all know he is capable, then [expletive] yeah I want to see him come back. How possible is that, though? At some point you have to move on.

 

Even if he pitches exactly as he did in 2011, his worst season, he's still the third-best starting pitcher we have under contract, at worst.

So we should put up with childish antics from someone who is an average starter in a below average rotation?

 

Aramis, Z and Sosa were on the receiving end of many standing ovations from Cubs fans throughout the years at Wrigley. They were embraced and loved because they performed. The skin color has nothing to do with it.

 

And when things started to turn bad, they were all run out of town and labeled lazy, selfish, and clubhouse cancers.

 

A fate that Ron "Sprewell" Santo, Ryne "Quitter" Sandberg and Mark "Drunky McDrunk" Grace all mysteriously avoided.

You seem like you have an axe to grind.