Kaplan: Royals interested in Z

[Ding Dong Johnson]

You can't let something like that slide.

[CUBZ99]

Kaplan: Randy Wells was extremely erratic and must become more focused on his craft before the Cubs can fully count on him as a full fledged member of their rotation.

 

Lazy hispanic.

You can stop posting these examples as they really are not helping your argument.

 

None of what you are posting is falling back on stereotypical criticisms of players performing well at the time. Yet others have posted quite a few examples of players like aramis who get vilified for complaints that fall back on typical stereotypes about their race. Posting the examples that you are simply shows a lack of understanding of what is being said instead of refuting the argument.

 

I doubt that Kaplan or any other major figure in the Chicago media is overtly racist. However, they do make many characterizations about certain players that very much fall into stereotypes.

 

Once again the problem is that many of the complaints about Aramis have been justified or at least amplified by actual games. Not running out basehits....loafing on balls he thought were home runs....not hustling...poor decision making...etc....

 

I will agree with you that I think in regards to Aramis, his flat affect appearance sometimes doesn't do him justice. But the criticism is not limited to Kaplan and it is hardly race based. I think if he were white and did the same thing, he would be jumped on just the same. For a good example just look at Jay Cutler. That guy has taken a ton of criticism about his will to win, laziness, wimpiness etc. I think you are stretching to call it a race problem.

 

dude STOP. aramis ramirez is not lazy. he's the single greatest contributor to the cubs offense over the last half-decade and beyond. he made great strides in improving his defense and conditioning when he got here, which he has been lauded for by non-meatheads on many many occasions. it is absolutely, positively, [expletive] stupid to ask your most valuable player to run out routine fly balls when he has experienced significant leg-related injuries. it's not because he's lazy, it's because he's smart. anyone who thinks the complaints of fat, balding, white tribune employees concerning aramis ramirez are at all valid are just as mentally void as they are.

 

and really, your example of the flip side is the criticism of jay cutler? the media came to the defense of jay cutler, it was players and fans that burned him at the stake. and good for them. i'm always glad when someone outs themselves as a total moron. it's always good to hear a couch-bound type-2 diabetic accusing a type-1 diabetic of laziness and wimpiness.

 

I never called him lazy. I said

many of the complaints about Aramis have been justified or at least amplified by actual games. Not running out basehits....loafing on balls he thought were home runs....not hustling...poor decision making...etc....

 

Once you get caught on TV running an easy double into a single, because you decided to go into a home run trot, you are going to get criticism, and rightfully so. I fail to see how losing the extra base is playing "smart".

 

I will agree that there is the perception that Aramis seems to get piled on more than most, but isn't it possible that it is due more towards his attitude toward the media and general overall disposition? Rather than his race?

 

In regard to Cutler, he absolutely does deal with the same issues with the media.

 

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6017986

 

http://www.thesportssession.net/2137/nfl-players-call-jay-cutler-physically-mentally-weak-is-he-really-a-soft-football-player.html

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14590417/does-cutler-have-seriously-injured-knee-or-weak-heart

 

http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-sports-guru/2011/01/jay-cutlers-persona-grants-him-no-sympathy-for-mcl-tear/

[17 Seconds]

what is wrong with ramirez's disposition? compared to most athletes who performed at a level as high as him, he was ridiculously humble. he never complained. he never casued any problems in the clubhouse. he never ever gave the media a chance to force some kind of controversy on him.

 

ramirez's disposition was fantastic. he kept his mouth shut, produced, and never caused problems. i'd say he was a model team member.

[SouthSideRyan]

what is wrong with ramirez's disposition? compared to most athletes who performed at a level as high as him, he was ridiculously humble. he never complained. he never casued any problems in the clubhouse. he never ever gave the media a chance to force some kind of controversy on him.

 

ramirez's disposition was fantastic. he kept his mouth shut, produced, and never caused problems. i'd say he was a model team member.

 

Yeah but his English, not so good.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Once you get caught on TV running an easy double into a single, because you decided to go into a home run trot, you are going to get criticism, and rightfully so. I fail to see how losing the extra base is playing "smart".

 

I will agree that there is the perception that Aramis seems to get piled on more than most, but isn't it possible that it is due more towards his attitude toward the media and general overall disposition? Rather than his race?

 

If Ramirez was the only example, sure. But that's the reason you keep trying to pick out individual players to argue about. Because you don't want to face the larger pattern.

 

The lazy, selfish players:

Ramirez, Zambrano, Castro, Soriano, Pie, Cedeno, Sosa, Soto

 

The scrappy, gamer players:

Theriot, Fontenot, Miles

 

You have to dig hard to find the very rare exceptions, like references to Wells "losing focus," but the color-coding pattern is clear.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6017986

 

http://www.thesportssession.net/2137/nfl-players-call-jay-cutler-physically-mentally-weak-is-he-really-a-soft-football-player.html

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14590417/does-cutler-have-seriously-injured-knee-or-weak-heart

 

http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-sports-guru/2011/01/jay-cutlers-persona-grants-him-no-sympathy-for-mcl-tear/

 

I don't see a single reference to Cutler being lazy in any of those articles.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

what is wrong with ramirez's disposition? compared to most athletes who performed at a level as high as him, he was ridiculously humble. he never complained. he never casued any problems in the clubhouse. he never ever gave the media a chance to force some kind of controversy on him.

 

ramirez's disposition was fantastic. he kept his mouth shut, produced, and never caused problems. i'd say he was a model team member.

 

But it's not in the slightest way racially tinged that people assume that he's a selfish, outspoken player.

[jersey cubs fan]

I never called him lazy. I said

many of the complaints about Aramis have been justified or at least amplified by actual games. Not running out basehits....loafing on balls he thought were home runs....not hustling...poor decision making...etc....

 

Once you get caught on TV running an easy double into a single, because you decided to go into a home run trot, you are going to get criticism, and rightfully so. I fail to see how losing the extra base is playing "smart".

 

I will agree that there is the perception that Aramis seems to get piled on more than most, but isn't it possible that it is due more towards his attitude toward the media and general overall disposition? Rather than his race?

 

In regard to Cutler, he absolutely does deal with the same issues with the media.

 

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6017986

 

http://www.thesportssession.net/2137/nfl-players-call-jay-cutler-physically-mentally-weak-is-he-really-a-soft-football-player.html

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14590417/does-cutler-have-seriously-injured-knee-or-weak-heart

 

http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-sports-guru/2011/01/jay-cutlers-persona-grants-him-no-sympathy-for-mcl-tear/

 

What the hell do you think lazy means?

 

Yeah, a handful of idiots thought Cutler faked an injury until people with brains criticized them. He's not called lazy like you and other people are calling Ramirez.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I will agree that there is the perception that Aramis seems to get piled on more than most, but isn't it possible that it is due more towards his attitude toward the media and general overall disposition?

You are really reaching here.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Once you get caught on TV running an easy double into a single, because you decided to go into a home run trot, you are going to get criticism, and rightfully so. I fail to see how losing the extra base is playing "smart".

 

I will agree that there is the perception that Aramis seems to get piled on more than most, but isn't it possible that it is due more towards his attitude toward the media and general overall disposition? Rather than his race?

 

If Ramirez was the only example, sure. But that's the reason you keep trying to pick out individual players to argue about. Because you don't want to face the larger pattern.

 

The lazy, selfish players:

Ramirez, Zambrano, Castro, Soriano, Pie, Cedeno, Sosa, Soto

 

The scrappy, gamer players:

Theriot, Fontenot, Miles

You have to dig hard to find the very rare exceptions, like references to Wells "losing focus," but the color-coding pattern is clear.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6017986

 

http://www.thesportssession.net/2137/nfl-players-call-jay-cutler-physically-mentally-weak-is-he-really-a-soft-football-player.html

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14590417/does-cutler-have-seriously-injured-knee-or-weak-heart

 

http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-sports-guru/2011/01/jay-cutlers-persona-grants-him-no-sympathy-for-mcl-tear/

 

I don't see a single reference to Cutler being lazy in any of those articles.

 

If it was up to the media meatballs, major league baseball would be full of David Ecksteins and Reed Johnsons "playing the game right" and tumbling all over the field and running into walls for $75 K/year. I don't think racism enters into it, it's just the style they feel the game should be played.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If it was up to the media meatballs, major league baseball would be full of David Ecksteins and Reed Johnsons "playing the game right" and tumbling all over the field and running into walls for $75 K/year. I don't think racism enters into it, it's just the style they feel the game should be played.

 

And yet it's a big ol' happy coincidence that all those "playing the game the right way" players are white.

[Little Slide Rooter]

If it was up to the media meatballs, major league baseball would be full of David Ecksteins and Reed Johnsons "playing the game right" and tumbling all over the field and running into walls for $75 K/year. I don't think racism enters into it, it's just the style they feel the game should be played.

 

And yet it's a big ol' happy coincidence that all those "playing the game the right way" players are white.

 

In Chicago anyway, it seems that way. Remember, the media loved them some Bobby Scales and in his short stint here.

[CUBZ99]

I never called him lazy. I said

many of the complaints about Aramis have been justified or at least amplified by actual games. Not running out basehits....loafing on balls he thought were home runs....not hustling...poor decision making...etc....

 

Once you get caught on TV running an easy double into a single, because you decided to go into a home run trot, you are going to get criticism, and rightfully so. I fail to see how losing the extra base is playing "smart".

 

I will agree that there is the perception that Aramis seems to get piled on more than most, but isn't it possible that it is due more towards his attitude toward the media and general overall disposition? Rather than his race?

 

In regard to Cutler, he absolutely does deal with the same issues with the media.

 

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6017986

 

http://www.thesportssession.net/2137/nfl-players-call-jay-cutler-physically-mentally-weak-is-he-really-a-soft-football-player.html

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14590417/does-cutler-have-seriously-injured-knee-or-weak-heart

 

http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-sports-guru/2011/01/jay-cutlers-persona-grants-him-no-sympathy-for-mcl-tear/

 

What the hell do you think lazy means?

 

Yeah, a handful of idiots thought Cutler faked an injury until people with brains criticized them. He's not called lazy like you and other people are calling Ramirez.

 

There you go exaggerating things. Simply because a player does lazy things at times does not mean that I think the player is lazy overall. But to say that criticism for lapses that were objectively observable is racist or somehow picking on a player is ignorant.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

There you go exaggerating things. Simply because a player does lazy things at times does not mean that I think the player is lazy overall. But to say that criticism for lapses that were objectively observable is racist or somehow picking on a player is ignorant.

You seem to be ignoring that white people are guilty of the same thing all the time. They're not the ones being singled out as lazy.

[jersey cubs fan]

There you go exaggerating things. Simply because a player does lazy things at times does not mean that I think the player is lazy overall. But to say that criticism for lapses that were objectively observable is racist or somehow picking on a player is ignorant.

 

If you harp on all the things he does that you consider lazy then you obviously consider the player lazy regardless of how you try to word the sentence.

[CUBZ99]

There you go exaggerating things. Simply because a player does lazy things at times does not mean that I think the player is lazy overall. But to say that criticism for lapses that were objectively observable is racist or somehow picking on a player is ignorant.

You seem to be ignoring that white people are guilty of the same thing all the time. They're not the ones being singled out as lazy.

 

Please point out these lazy white people that need to be singled out.

[CUBZ99]

There you go exaggerating things. Simply because a player does lazy things at times does not mean that I think the player is lazy overall. But to say that criticism for lapses that were objectively observable is racist or somehow picking on a player is ignorant.

 

If you harp on all the things he does that you consider lazy then you obviously consider the player lazy regardless of how you try to word the sentence.

 

That's ridiculous. Ramirez has been one of my favorite players on the Cubs over the last several years. Just because I like him though, doesn't mean I can't acknowledge that some of the criticism leveled against him on certain plays may be valid.

[seanimal]

what's with the ITS-NOT-RACISM hysterics? racism is everywhere. what's the big deal about simply pointing out that an individual or individuals are obviously using a stereotype to guide their comments in regards to the behavior or personalities of others?

[jersey cubs fan]

There you go exaggerating things. Simply because a player does lazy things at times does not mean that I think the player is lazy overall. But to say that criticism for lapses that were objectively observable is racist or somehow picking on a player is ignorant.

 

If you harp on all the things he does that you consider lazy then you obviously consider the player lazy regardless of how you try to word the sentence.

 

That's ridiculous. Ramirez has been one of my favorite players on the Cubs over the last several years. Just because I like him though, doesn't mean I can't acknowledge that some of the criticism leveled against him on certain plays may be valid.

 

sure

 

many of the complaints about Aramis have been justified or at least amplified by actual games. Not running out basehits....loafing on balls he thought were home runs....not hustling...poor decision making...etc....

[Guest]

As fun as this been, I think this conversation has run its course. I'm going to close this thread - feel free to start a new one on Z if there's any actual news.