Ramirez declines option

[Hairyducked Idiot]

i hope he gets a really nice deal somewhere. he took less to stay with the cubs, and i don't think he gets enough credit for that. instead, most cubs fans criticize him for not running out ground balls and garbage like that.

 

I've actually heard fans argue that the fact that he's had some slow starts proves he doesn't care enough to hit when the Cubs need him (because lately they've been out of it by the time he gets his second-half surge). Clutch arguments are bad enough, but now a player is less clutch if he hits better later in the year, apparently.

[jersey cubs fan]

i hope he gets a really nice deal somewhere. he took less to stay with the cubs, and i don't think he gets enough credit for that. instead, most cubs fans criticize him for not running out ground balls and garbage like that.

 

Do most fans criticize him? I know the voices that do are loud (Sullivan/Rozner/Kaplan), but when I've attended games there Ramirez is always among the most applauded players. He doesn't take the onslaught of boos that Soriano does.

[champaignchris]

Assuming Ram really is done with the Cubs, his all-time Cubs career ranks are

 

3rd in Slugging %

5th in OPS

15th in total bases

14th in doubles

6th in HRs

12th in RBI

11th in Extra base hits

5th in hit by pitch

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Incidentally, Baseball Prospectus also takes a very dim view of his defense and has him averaging 2.0 bpWAR the last four seasons.

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/card/card.php?id=734

[Guest]

Incidentally, Baseball Prospectus also takes a very dim view of his defense and has him averaging 2.0 bpWAR the last four seasons.

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/card/card.php?id=734

 

It's crazy what an outlier 2007 was in FRAA. How does that even happen?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Incidentally, Baseball Prospectus also takes a very dim view of his defense and has him averaging 2.0 bpWAR the last four seasons.

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/card/card.php?id=734

 

It's crazy what an outlier 2007 was in FRAA. How does that even happen?

 

If we start from 2007 just to give him the best possible cutoff, he's been bleeding an average of 8.5 runs a year from his value (just under a win) on the field and in the basepaths.

 

If we start from 2006, it's 11 runs per year, and if we start from 2008 it's 12.

 

No matter how you slice it, his defense and baserunning slice a full WAR per year off his offense.

[Rob]

This is the only way the argument can be made.

 

That Ramirez's defense was hurting his value so much that he's not as valuable as some of us think.

 

For this arguement, you have to assume that the other guys will be enough of a defensive upgrade to make up for the offense. We know that DeWitts defense isn't much better than Aramis. I don't know too much about LeMa or Flaherty on defense, and Bakers offense is surely not enough.

 

On what are you basing your premise that DeWitt is not much better on defense than Aramis? UZR? Because he's only got about 17 games worth of innings at 3B over the last three years. In the ~80 games he logged there in 2008 he was ranked quite well. In addition, he was also considered a pretty slick defensive 3B on his way up the ladder with the Dodgers.

[Clem Fandango]

Theo pretty much just said in the press conference that Aramis (and the Cubs) is likely moving on and he will probably not be coming back.

[jersey cubs fan]

Well, even though his free swinging overly aggressive approach was the opposite of what I like, he made it work and was my favorite Cub this past decade. Hard to complain about consistent high end production.

[Ski]

I love Ramirez, I just can't imagine him being gone. I would be willing to give him 2 years and 30 million, and he'd probably be worth around that.

[Rob]

I love Ramirez, I just can't imagine him being gone. I would be willing to give him 2 years and 30 million, and he'd probably be worth around that.

 

And he can probably get 3 years with an easily vesting 4th year elsewhere.

[Butterscup1679666578]

GOOD NIGHT SWEET PRINCE

[SouthSideRyan]

i hope he gets a really nice deal somewhere. he took less to stay with the cubs, and i don't think he gets enough credit for that. instead, most cubs fans criticize him for not running out ground balls and garbage like that.

 

Do most fans criticize him? I know the voices that do are loud (Sullivan/Rozner/Kaplan), but when I've attended games there Ramirez is always among the most applauded players. He doesn't take the onslaught of boos that Soriano does.

 

Yes. The Ramirez is lazy and doesn't hit when it matters idea is very prevalent among the standard Cubs fan. It's infuriating.

[Guest]

i hope he gets a really nice deal somewhere. he took less to stay with the cubs, and i don't think he gets enough credit for that. instead, most cubs fans criticize him for not running out ground balls and garbage like that.

 

Do most fans criticize him? I know the voices that do are loud (Sullivan/Rozner/Kaplan), but when I've attended games there Ramirez is always among the most applauded players. He doesn't take the onslaught of boos that Soriano does.

 

Yes. The Ramirez is lazy and doesn't hit when it matters idea is very prevalent among the standard Cubs fan. It's infuriating.

 

 

That part is the most mind boggling. WTF? Half of my Aramis memories are walkoffs and other huge hits.

[ConstableRabbit]

i hope he gets a really nice deal somewhere. he took less to stay with the cubs, and i don't think he gets enough credit for that. instead, most cubs fans criticize him for not running out ground balls and garbage like that.

 

Do most fans criticize him? I know the voices that do are loud (Sullivan/Rozner/Kaplan), but when I've attended games there Ramirez is always among the most applauded players. He doesn't take the onslaught of boos that Soriano does.

 

Yes. The Ramirez is lazy and doesn't hit when it matters idea is very prevalent among the standard Cubs fan. It's infuriating.

Small sample size obviously, but I've heard this from the 3-4 casual fan friends who have congratulated me on Theo.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

That part is the most mind boggling. WTF? Half of my Aramis memories are walkoffs and other huge hits.

 

 

Unclutch has never meant "doesn't hit well in important situations." Like leadership and defense in the old days, it means "the difference between how good the numbers say he is and how much I like him."

[J.R.]

[ConstableRabbit]

That ball flew directly over my head in LF. Absolute bomb.

[RynoRules]

:bye:

[17 Seconds]

i hope he gets a really nice deal somewhere. he took less to stay with the cubs, and i don't think he gets enough credit for that. instead, most cubs fans criticize him for not running out ground balls and garbage like that.

 

Do most fans criticize him? I know the voices that do are loud (Sullivan/Rozner/Kaplan), but when I've attended games there Ramirez is always among the most applauded players. He doesn't take the onslaught of boos that Soriano does.

 

Yes. The Ramirez is lazy and doesn't hit when it matters idea is very prevalent among the standard Cubs fan. It's infuriating.

 

 

That part is the most mind boggling. WTF? Half of my Aramis memories are walkoffs and other huge hits.

 

he was so money in clutch spots in 07 and 08 when we were actually good.

[erik316wttn]

I'm disappointed he won't be coming back, but I trust Theo knows what he's doing. If we don't get Pujols or Fielder though (and Aram walking hurts our chances, I think) this offense is going to suck hard next year.

[17 Seconds]

Am I the only one who feels better about our chances at Pujols/Fielder now that Aramis is pretty much gone? Like someone else said, if we don't re-sign Aramis AND miss out on Fielder/Pujols, our offense is going to be embarrasingly bad next year. I can see Theo/Hoyer viewing this season as kind of a transitional stage where they try and start setting things up for down the road, but I don't think they're going to let the team tank this year, and that offense would tank pretty hard.

 

I think the fact that they're not spending the money on Ramirez makes it more likely that they plan to spend big on Pujols/Fielder.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I know that "embarrassingly bad" isn't strictly quantifiable, but I think that's overstating how bad the Cubs' offense would be.

 

We scored 654 runs last season, the average National League offense scored 669.

 

Presuming we at least bring back Carlos Pena or his equivalent at 1b, the rest of the offense would be more or less the same. Yeah, you can get a bounceback year from Soto or improvement from Castro or Darwin Barney could fall apart or Byrd could get old, but projecting an average of the same thing is pretty reasonable.

 

In order to drop into the bottom quartile, we'd have had to have scored 614 runs of fewer.

 

Using B-Ref's Batting Runs Above Average, Ramirez was a +28 runs with the bat.

 

So in the nightmare scenario where we don't make a single upgrade to the offense in the entire offseason, we'd still have to be 13 runs below average offensively at 3b in order to drop down to 12th in offense in a 16-team league.

 

It wouldn't be a good offense, or even an average one, but it's not quite as bad as some would have you believe.

[davearm2]

Am I the only one who feels better about our chances at Pujols/Fielder now that Aramis is pretty much gone? Like someone else said, if we don't re-sign Aramis AND miss out on Fielder/Pujols, our offense is going to be embarrasingly bad next year. I can see Theo/Hoyer viewing this season as kind of a transitional stage where they try and start setting things up for down the road, but I don't think they're going to let the team tank this year, and that offense would tank pretty hard.

 

I think the fact that they're not spending the money on Ramirez makes it more likely that they plan to spend big on Pujols/Fielder.

I think it simply signals that their computer models are telling them that Ramirez isn't worth the money he'll command.

 

These guys have proven to be cold-blooded and impervious to fan backlash when it comes to parting ways with popular players.

 

Any inference beyond that seems purely speculative.

[17 Seconds]

Computer models? Don't be that guy.