Dempster

[Tim]

He's in control as he's the one holding the option for 2012. To my knowledge, he has yet to exercise that option. My feelings are mixed on whether or not I'd want him to do so. The new leadership may have an opportunity to go to him and encourage him to look elsewhere.

 

If I felt confident in our ability to sign Wilson, it would be a perfect transition to take Demp's money and redirect it to CJ. It would give us much more predictability at the top of the rotation while not really increasing payroll much at all. It wouldn't plug a gap in the rotation - it would just upgrade the #2 spot while holding costs pretty steady.

 

I guess what I'm looking for are opinions on how much Demp has left in the tank at this point.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Hopefully enough for one more year.

 

Garza/Wilson/Zambrano/Wells/Cashner or whoever doesn't look all that great to me. And that's being optimistic enough that Zambrano will be back.

[XZero771679666304]

I don't know what Demp has left, but if the Cubs don't keep at least one of he or Z, that leaves a lot of innings that will need to be eaten. And I feel like Dempster still has more to give than Z.

[Guest]

Hopefully enough for one more year.

 

Garza/Wilson/Zambrano/Wells/Cashner or whoever doesn't look all that great to me. And that's being optimistic enough that Zambrano will be back.

I'd assume that more would have to be done to fill out the rotation.

 

The question I'm asking isn't really about the composition of the entire rotation. It's more about whether Demp would be worth anything close to $15M in 2012.

[jersey cubs fan]

I guess what I'm looking for are opinions on how much Demp has left in the tank at this point.

 

He's now at 4 straight seasons of 200+ IP, when he was younger he went 3 straight before surgery. I think there's some risk that he's coming close to emptying the tank. However, I think his 2011 would have been a lot better if he didn't have a complete idiot for a manager. There were multiple times, including opening day, where Dempster scuffled through an outing and/or what should have been his last inning only to have Quade extend him into the 110+ pitch zone and he got rocked. He had a 900+ OPS against in the 7th inning as well as 900+ past the 101 pitch mark. It was 1350 in a batter's 4th PA against him and his horrible manager never picked up on that issue. He wasn't great early in games, but if Quade didn't start wasting his efforts from Day 1 I think his 2011 would have looked a lot better. And if you treat him like a 6 inning pitcher this year he could be pretty decent. But I would love it if he didn't pick up his option.

[Rob]

Hopefully enough for one more year.

 

Garza/Wilson/Zambrano/Wells/Cashner or whoever doesn't look all that great to me. And that's being optimistic enough that Zambrano will be back.

I'd assume that more would have to be done to fill out the rotation.

 

The question I'm asking isn't really about the composition of the entire rotation. It's more about whether Demp would be worth anything close to $15M in 2012.

 

I like Dempster and he's likely to be worth around what his contract calls for... but I think it'd be in the best interests of the team to convince him to go.

 

Dempster projects as a Type A. If he declines the option and we offer arbitration, we'll get two picks and $15 million in payroll freed up. We could approximate his production by signing Paul Maholm for a fraction of that price and spend the rest of the money on upgrades elsewhere.

[jersey cubs fan]

Hopefully enough for one more year.

 

Garza/Wilson/Zambrano/Wells/Cashner or whoever doesn't look all that great to me. And that's being optimistic enough that Zambrano will be back.

I'd assume that more would have to be done to fill out the rotation.

 

The question I'm asking isn't really about the composition of the entire rotation. It's more about whether Demp would be worth anything close to $15M in 2012.

 

I like Dempster and he's likely to be worth around what his contract calls for... but I think it'd be in the best interests of the team to convince him to go.

 

Dempster projects as a Type A. If he declines the option and we offer arbitration, we'll get two picks and $15 million in payroll freed up. We could approximate his production by signing Paul Maholm for a fraction of that price and spend the rest of the money on upgrades elsewhere.

 

I'm not really sure how you convince him to go. I think you can choose not to do a sell job on him, but it's about whether Demspter can get more elsewhere. I don't see anybody wanting to pay big money and give up a draft pick for him.

[bukie]

The biggest thing in Dempster's favor if he declines his option is that three of the biggest free agent players will be looking primarily for pitching.

[Guest]

About the best you can do is tell him that he 100% won't be brought back after next year if he picks it up. Not sure if that's enough.

[CUBZ99]

Deciphering what Theo said during his interviews, Dempster doesn't sound like the type of player that he would sign to an extension at this point. He is past his prime and his numbers this year did not inspire confidence.

 

Lets hope that he decides to test the market and declines the option. I'm sure that there are some teams that would still find him attractive. Perhaps even the Yankees, as he seemed to benefit greatly from having Rothschild around to help him from 2008-2010.

[Rob]

I'm not really sure how you convince him to go. I think you can choose not to do a sell job on him, but it's about whether Demspter can get more elsewhere. I don't see anybody wanting to pay big money and give up a draft pick for him.

 

I seem to recall a quote by Dempster where he basically came out and said "I'll exercise my option if they express an interest in keeping me beyond this year. Otherwise, I'm gone." If that's not just a figment of my imagination, not doing a sell job would be the same as convincing him to leave.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm not really sure how you convince him to go. I think you can choose not to do a sell job on him, but it's about whether Demspter can get more elsewhere. I don't see anybody wanting to pay big money and give up a draft pick for him.

 

I seem to recall a quote by Dempster where he basically came out and said "I'll exercise my option if they express an interest in keeping me beyond this year. Otherwise, I'm gone." If that's not just a figment of my imagination, not doing a sell job would be the same as convincing him to leave.

 

The quote I read after the Theo news was that he was excited and wanted a chance to win and finish his career in Chicago. He hinted about an extension, but he might prefer to make $15m this year and try and have a better 2012 which should leave him in a position to wind up with more overall money. If somebody is going to give him 3/30 after he declines, 1/15 and go from there could be a better option.

[C.C.]

Dempster's going to stay. No doubt in my mind.

[Rob]

The quote I read after the Theo news was that he was excited and wanted a chance to win and finish his career in Chicago. He hinted about an extension, but he might prefer to make $15m this year and try and have a better 2012 which should leave him in a position to wind up with more overall money. If somebody is going to give him 3/30 after he declines, 1/15 and go from there could be a better option.

 

Yeah, that was after Theo was announced. The one I'm thinking of was from before.

 

I think Demp can get 3/35 on the open market. At that price (and at his age, and coming off the year he is), I have to imagine he'd be willing to take that rather than gamble on his market value still being good enough to make more after this year.

[shnsajax]

Luckily his agent will be pushing him to go into FA too.

[jersey cubs fan]

The quote I read after the Theo news was that he was excited and wanted a chance to win and finish his career in Chicago. He hinted about an extension, but he might prefer to make $15m this year and try and have a better 2012 which should leave him in a position to wind up with more overall money. If somebody is going to give him 3/30 after he declines, 1/15 and go from there could be a better option.

 

Yeah, that was after Theo was announced. The one I'm thinking of was from before.

 

I think Demp can get 3/35 on the open market. At that price (and at his age, and coming off the year he is), I have to imagine he'd be willing to take that rather than gamble on his market value still being good enough to make more after this year.

 

Only if he thinks he can't do better in 2012.

[Vinestal]

If he declines his option what kind of draft pick to we get for him?

[Rob]

If he declines his option what kind of draft pick to we get for him?

 

For certain there'd be a sandwich pick between the first and second round. Beyond that, it depends on who signs him. If it's a team that picks in the top half of the first round, we'd get their second rounder. If it's a team that picks in the second half of the first round, we'd get their first rounder.

[toonsterwu]

I tend to want Dempster back ... provided it's only through 2013. At best, I'd offer him 2 and an option, but not 3, and the AAV would have to come down from the 13 mil on the last contract (closer to 10). I think he should be fine in 2012. You never know when a guy will lose it, but there isn't any glaring signs of concern right now, other than the fact that he's worked so many innings the last few years. Add in that he's one of the few guys that's been reported as a clubhouse leader, and if he's willing to come back at the right years and price, I'm open to it. I wouldn't guarantee 3 years, and I wouldn't give him more than 11 mil on the AAV, though.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I have no problem with Dempster back on a 1 year, maybe 2, but that's it. we have Garza, Cashner, and Wells as far as pitchers past 2012. I'd very much like to see a legit front end guy added to one of those spots. I have no problem with Dempster fillinf the other for now. Then again, it depends on how guys like McNutt, Struck, and Rhee progress.

[davell]

I hope he walks and we keep Z. To me, the team that signs Dempster would be a team in the bottom half of the draft,but one that Demp isn't there highest priority signing. To where we get that team's second or maybe even their 3rd. But, it'd help if they also had a couple of comp picks they'd be receiving as well from their own FA's leaving. Basically, I guess I'm questioning whether or not a team would even be willing to give up a pick for him. I'm afraid he's declining and his age could hinder other teams really wanting him at a high price. If he were to go on the open market right now, what's he looking at? 3 for 30 is top end, right?

[toonsterwu]

I hope he walks and we keep Z. To me, the team that signs Dempster would be a team in the bottom half of the draft,but one that Demp isn't there highest priority signing. To where we get that team's second or maybe even their 3rd. But, it'd help if they also had a couple of comp picks they'd be receiving as well from their own FA's leaving. Basically, I guess I'm questioning whether or not a team would even be willing to give up a pick for him. I'm afraid he's declining and his age could hinder other teams really wanting him at a high price. If he were to go on the open market right now, what's he looking at? 3 for 30 is top end, right?

 

It's hard to say. He's coming off a better season than most seem to acknowledge, in a weak FA pitching market. There isn't a velocity decrease to be concerned with. The K and BB numbers are fairly similar to last year. I could see something like 3/36 for a team that loses out on someone.

 

As a side note, I think we're giving too much attention to picks. First off, next year's draft looks fairly pedestrian. That said, if we continue to over-slot like we did this past year, we should be able to nab some high quality talent in the later rounds. The picks are nice, but not something I'd get too worried about if they continue to over-slot like they did this past year.

[Guest]

I don't think Dempster will leave the money on the table. He was abused pretty bad this year and with his age and history I think he's primed for a lot of DL time. Both bad news for the Cubs, I think

 

I think.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

I don't think Dempster will leave the money on the table. He was abused pretty bad this year and with his age and history I think he's primed for a lot of DL time. Both bad news for the Cubs, I think

 

I think.

 

I THINK I get what you're saying, and I agree.

 

That said, Jay Jackson or Trey McNutt will make me not care. Probably McNutt, unless it's Andrew Cashner (which would be best of all). Thats....sunshine lollipops...

[toonsterwu]

I have a hard time hoping for much from Jay Jackson as a starter unless he finds a better breaking ball. Right now, it's hard to see him as a late inning arm in the pen either.