Hendry's Worst 10 Moves (Non including draft)

[Bote McBoteface]

I would think that if I were typing this topic out, I would have realized that it was stupid and not hit the submit button long before I was ever finished with the post.

[Sammy Sofa]

The list that kicked this off is really, really horrible.

 

I'm going to pick on the Soriano point because nobody else has and because he had another point where he specified that the mistake was overpaying, yet with Soriano he said the mistake was simply signing him. I think that's wrong. Soriano is a very, very flawed player and not worth what he got, but if the Cubs had signed him for something like 5 years/$75 million I wouldn't have had a problem with it. He wasn't the 40/40 guy the Cubs stupidly thought they were paying for, but Soriano was a huge part of 2007 and 2008 (yes, even with the injuries).

 

Overpaying and giving him 8 years were the bad moves. Just signing him isn't so easily dismissed.

[JimSorgi]

I'm not sure I understand why giving up Hak Ju Lee was such a bad move. I think he has a chance to be really good, but it's not like he's a future superstar. And we got a really good return for him in Garza.

[TruffleShuffle]

let's not forget robinson chirinos, he's 1-1 with a walk in his major league debut. fuckin hendry.

[dew1679666265]

I'm not sure I understand why giving up Hak Ju Lee was such a bad move. I think he has a chance to be really good, but it's not like he's a future superstar. And we got a really good return for him in Garza.

 

My problem with the trade wasn't giving up Archer or Lee individually - it was giving up both. I wasn't sold on Garza becoming an ace, I loved the upside of Archer and thought Lee had more trade value than an iffy ace. However, there's no way that trade should go down as one of Hendry's worst (still has a great chance to be one of his best) and the early returns are proving me very wrong (Garza's been great and Archer's been awful).

[Little Slide Rooter]

The list that kicked this off is really, really horrible.

 

I'm going to pick on the Soriano point because nobody else has and because he had another point where he specified that the mistake was overpaying, yet with Soriano he said the mistake was simply signing him. I think that's wrong. Soriano is a very, very flawed player and not worth what he got, but if the Cubs had signed him for something like 5 years/$75 million I wouldn't have had a problem with it. He wasn't the 40/40 guy the Cubs stupidly thought they were paying for, but Soriano was a huge part of 2007 and 2008 (yes, even with the injuries).

 

Overpaying and giving him 8 years were the bad moves. Just signing him isn't so easily dismissed.

 

I agree with you, but to add to it its how much he overpaid. As I recall, the top 2 contenders for Soriano at the time were the Angels and Phillies, both of whom had 5 year deals on the table until Hendry swooped in and outbid with the 8 year deal. Also, at the time, Soriano still had the tools to be a 30/30 guy before those 2 injuries, one baserunning vs. the Mets, and another doing his stupid hop, and yet another when some scrub Braves pitcher broke his hand. Those really couldnt have been predicted as until then, to my knowledge hed been pretty healthy throughout his career.

[questionmarkgrace]

I'm not sure I understand why giving up Hak Ju Lee was such a bad move. I think he has a chance to be really good, but it's not like he's a future superstar. And we got a really good return for him in Garza.

 

I agree and its certainly nice to see that Archer has regressed a bit since we traded him.

[Guest]

IIRC, Teixera didn't exactly have a stellar year prior to the draft, which caused him to slip.

 

it was bonus demands. his line for his junior year was .427/.547/.772/1.319.

I think that was the year before. He broke his ankle his junior year and missed most of the season.

http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/030301aaa.html

 

i think you're right... wonder why baseball cube lists that monster year as his 2001 stats?

 

anyway, he only fell to 5th overall and i know the cubs were always going to draft prior and the twins were also going for mauer. i know that the phillies definitely passed on teixeira because of his bonus demands (having recently been burned by j.d. drew)... tampa picked brazelton #3 and they were probably just being cheap.

 

http://ramblinwreck.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/073107aaa.html

 

Looks like it was the 2000 season which was his monster year and then he got hurt in 2001.

[dfnowak]

I can't consider drafting Prior over Teixera a bad move. He was hailed as the next Tom Seaver w/ perfect mechanics and the Cubs would have looked cheap if they passed over him. Before Dusty ruined his arm, Prior was starting games for the Cubs in 2002, one year after being drafted, and was dominant in 2003.

 

If signing Dusty was considered a bad move, then what was Lou Piniella? At least Dusty won us games in the playoffs and almost got us to the World Series and didn't quit on the team during his third season as manager. Maybe Hendry hiring Lou over Girardi should be considered an even bigger mistake.

[JimSorgi]

I can't consider drafting Prior over Teixera a bad move. He was hailed as the next Tom Seaver w/ perfect mechanics and the Cubs would have looked cheap if they passed over him. Before Dusty ruined his arm, Prior was starting games for the Cubs in 2002, one year after being drafted, and was dominant in 2003.

 

If signing Dusty was considered a bad move, then what was Lou Piniella? At least Dusty won us games in the playoffs and almost got us to the World Series and didn't quit on the team during his third season as manager. Maybe Hendry hiring Lou over Girardi should be considered an even bigger mistake.

You just talked about Prior in your first paragraph, yet you somehow can't realize what was so bad about Dusty?

[apete6]

Can't believe I forgot about the Pierre trade. That was probably 2nd on the list. Just terrible. Maddux for Izturis was pretty bad too and should have been mentioned.

 

And, yes, the Sandberg and Hamilton things were jokes. Although it would have been nice to see Ryno as the sacrificial lamb this year just to shut all of the meatballs up or just make their focus solely on Hendry as they would have never believed that Ryno could possibly do anything wrong.

[dfnowak]

I can't consider drafting Prior over Teixera a bad move. He was hailed as the next Tom Seaver w/ perfect mechanics and the Cubs would have looked cheap if they passed over him. Before Dusty ruined his arm, Prior was starting games for the Cubs in 2002, one year after being drafted, and was dominant in 2003.

 

If signing Dusty was considered a bad move, then what was Lou Piniella? At least Dusty won us games in the playoffs and almost got us to the World Series and didn't quit on the team during his third season as manager. Maybe Hendry hiring Lou over Girardi should be considered an even bigger mistake.

You just talked about Prior in your first paragraph, yet you somehow can't realize what was so bad about Dusty?

 

What are you talking about? I never said Dusty was a good manager, but was just comparing his time w/ the Cubs to Lou's.

[dfnowak]

Is it too early to consider the Lilly and Theriot deal for DeWitt, Wallach and Smit a bad one? Early returns on Wallach and Smit are not very good.

[bukie]

I can't consider drafting Prior over Teixera a bad move. He was hailed as the next Tom Seaver w/ perfect mechanics and the Cubs would have looked cheap if they passed over him. Before Dusty ruined his arm, Prior was starting games for the Cubs in 2002, one year after being drafted, and was dominant in 2003.

 

If signing Dusty was considered a bad move, then what was Lou Piniella? At least Dusty won us games in the playoffs and almost got us to the World Series and didn't quit on the team during his third season as manager. Maybe Hendry hiring Lou over Girardi should be considered an even bigger mistake.

Nearly any manager should've been able to win with the Cubs in 2003 and 2004. They had a solid lineup 1-8 and the best rotation 1-5 in baseball. Dusty turned what should've been a budding Cub dynasty with a stacked farm system of pitching into crap in just 3 years.

 

At least Piniella can say he managed the Cubs to be easily the best team in the NL in 2008.

[CubColtPacer]

I can't consider drafting Prior over Teixera a bad move. He was hailed as the next Tom Seaver w/ perfect mechanics and the Cubs would have looked cheap if they passed over him. Before Dusty ruined his arm, Prior was starting games for the Cubs in 2002, one year after being drafted, and was dominant in 2003.

 

If signing Dusty was considered a bad move, then what was Lou Piniella? At least Dusty won us games in the playoffs and almost got us to the World Series and didn't quit on the team during his third season as manager. Maybe Hendry hiring Lou over Girardi should be considered an even bigger mistake.

Nearly any manager should've been able to win with the Cubs in 2003 and 2004. They had a solid lineup 1-8 and the best rotation 1-5 in baseball. Dusty turned what should've been a budding Cub dynasty with a stacked farm system of pitching into crap in just 3 years.

 

At least Piniella can say he managed the Cubs to be easily the best team in the NL in 2008.

 

I don't know if we can call the 2003-2004 team a budding Cubs dynasty. Maybe by 2004 since Lee, Ramirez, and Barrett had shown up, but that 2003 team was going to need almost all the major offensive pieces replaced very quickly. And the farm system was not nearly as stacked as had been thought. Dusty ruined the young pitching which was a huge blow, but the Cubs were still going to have to make a lot of good moves to become elite going forward.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If signing Dusty was considered a bad move, then what was Lou Piniella? At least Dusty won us games in the playoffs and almost got us to the World Series and didn't quit on the team during his third season as manager. Maybe Hendry hiring Lou over Girardi should be considered an even bigger mistake.

 

Piniella didn't singlehandedly torch said WS chances while simultaneously destroying the most promising arm the Cubs organization is likely to get in any of our lifetimes.

[dew1679666265]

If signing Dusty was considered a bad move, then what was Lou Piniella? At least Dusty won us games in the playoffs and almost got us to the World Series and didn't quit on the team during his third season as manager. Maybe Hendry hiring Lou over Girardi should be considered an even bigger mistake.

 

Hiring Dusty was a bad move not because of the W-L record, but as others have mentioned, it was bad because Dusty significantly overused Prior, Wood and Z and probably had a huge effect on Prior and Wood having significant injury issues throughout their careers.

 

Lou, on the other hand, never really abused his starting pitchers, he promoted a very solid approach at the plate and brought in coaches (Perry, Joshua) who believed in that philosophy, and generally stayed out of the way during games. He was actually a very good manager his first two seasons and his teams posted 85 wins and 97 wins in those years. Dusty won 88 and 89 his first two years and then tailed off, plus he had the negative effects after he left that Lou did not.

[bukie]

I can't consider drafting Prior over Teixera a bad move. He was hailed as the next Tom Seaver w/ perfect mechanics and the Cubs would have looked cheap if they passed over him. Before Dusty ruined his arm, Prior was starting games for the Cubs in 2002, one year after being drafted, and was dominant in 2003.

 

If signing Dusty was considered a bad move, then what was Lou Piniella? At least Dusty won us games in the playoffs and almost got us to the World Series and didn't quit on the team during his third season as manager. Maybe Hendry hiring Lou over Girardi should be considered an even bigger mistake.

Nearly any manager should've been able to win with the Cubs in 2003 and 2004. They had a solid lineup 1-8 and the best rotation 1-5 in baseball. Dusty turned what should've been a budding Cub dynasty with a stacked farm system of pitching into crap in just 3 years.

 

At least Piniella can say he managed the Cubs to be easily the best team in the NL in 2008.

 

I don't know if we can call the 2003-2004 team a budding Cubs dynasty. Maybe by 2004 since Lee, Ramirez, and Barrett had shown up, but that 2003 team was going to need almost all the major offensive pieces replaced very quickly. And the farm system was not nearly as stacked as had been thought. Dusty ruined the young pitching which was a huge blow, but the Cubs were still going to have to make a lot of good moves to become elite going forward.

 

In 2003-2004, they had a rotation of mid-20s pitchers in Prior, Wood, Zambrano and Clement, along with a pen of young arms in Farnsworth, Wuertz, Cruz, and even Todd Wellemeyer, Francis Beltran and Jon Leicester. Their oldest arm in the pen was LaTroy Hawkins, who was totally unfairly remembered on that squad and possibly the best reliever they had.

 

On the offensive front, they had quickly morphed from a team with Sosa and Alou and little else by trading for or signing Ramirez, Lee, Barrett, Todd Walker, and a 30-year-old Nomar Garciaparra. Patterson getting injured and coming back slowly had killed them in CF, but they still had guys like Murton waiting in the wings.

 

Poor positional drafting probably hurt them long-term more than anything on the offensive end, since the players they acquired to take over for Alou/Sosa/Patterson either were expected to be something they weren't (Murton, Jones, Soriano, Fukudome) or just old and/or bad from the start (Hollandsworth, Burnitz, Grieve, Lawton, Pierre, Nevin, Floyd).

[UMFan83]

I don't care if LaTroy Hawkins was the best reliever on the 2004 team, it is not unfair to remember him as the guy who blew 3 of his last 6 save attempts down the stretch of a tight playoff race, including the Victor Diaz game. Then in 2005, he managed to blow 4 of his first 8 save attempts, and compile a 1-4 record in 15 appearances before being mercifully traded.

 

I know, he said he wasn't a closer, and he pitched pretty damn good as a setup guy in 2004, but I can't remember him with any fondness at all for helping to blow 2004 and continuing the crappiness into 2005. Though I was pleased at the return we got for him at the time.

[XZero771679666304]

I don't care if LaTroy Hawkins was the best reliever on the 2004 team, it is not unfair to remember him as the guy who blew 3 of his last 6 save attempts down the stretch of a tight playoff race, including the Victor Diaz game. Then in 2005, he managed to blow 4 of his first 8 save attempts, and compile a 1-4 record in 15 appearances before being mercifully traded.

 

I know, he said he wasn't a closer, and he pitched pretty damn good as a setup guy in 2004, but I can't remember him with any fondness at all for helping to blow 2004 and continuing the crappiness into 2005. Though I was pleased at the return we got for him at the time.

 

LaTroy Hawkins was not signed to close and had clearly proven he couldn't do it in Minnesota. He was signed to set up, which is what he did brilliantly. I do not blame him for what happened. It was just another example of Dusty Baker totally mismanaging his resources.

 

I felt sorry for Hawkins, and I still do.

[sneakypower]

a trade the really pissed me off at the time was coveting old, useless Steve Trachsel

 

everybody mentions Baker ruining the young arms, but on top of that he made us markedly worse from all the playing time he gave to awful bench veterans he requested, and probably ruined Corey Patterson by trying to shoehorn him into a leadoff role

[Little Slide Rooter]

Is it too early to consider the Lilly and Theriot deal for DeWitt, Wallach and Smit a bad one? Early returns on Wallach and Smit are not very good.

 

I dont consider it bad at all. Lilly was at the end of his contract on a dead team. Theriot had worn out his welcome. We got a 25 year old major league player with potential, which I think he still has in DeWitt as well as 2 fringe pitching prospects. I cant imagine we could have gotten anything better or those 2.

[dfnowak]

If signing Dusty was considered a bad move, then what was Lou Piniella? At least Dusty won us games in the playoffs and almost got us to the World Series and didn't quit on the team during his third season as manager. Maybe Hendry hiring Lou over Girardi should be considered an even bigger mistake.

 

Hiring Dusty was a bad move not because of the W-L record, but as others have mentioned, it was bad because Dusty significantly overused Prior, Wood and Z and probably had a huge effect on Prior and Wood having significant injury issues throughout their careers.

 

Lou, on the other hand, never really abused his starting pitchers, he promoted a very solid approach at the plate and brought in coaches (Perry, Joshua) who believed in that philosophy, and generally stayed out of the way during games. He was actually a very good manager his first two seasons and his teams posted 85 wins and 97 wins in those years. Dusty won 88 and 89 his first two years and then tailed off, plus he had the negative effects after he left that Lou did not.

 

I can blame Dusty for ruining Prior, but not Wood. Wood already had major surgery before Dusty arrived and already had bad mechanics to contribute to his many stints on the DL.

 

Doesn't going 0-6 in two straight playoff appearances and mailing in his manager duties for half of 09 and all of 2010 have any significance?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I can blame Dusty for ruining Prior, but not Wood. Wood already had major surgery before Dusty arrived and already had bad mechanics to contribute to his many stints on the DL.

 

So if you have a guy who has already had major surgery, many stints on the DL and bad mechanics, do you let him be one of the top 2 in the league in pitches/start (with your 21-year-old stud being the other)?

 

Ruining Prior alone is worse than going 0-6 in the playoffs, mailling it in for 2 seasons, peeing on the Harry Caray statue and trading Starlin Castro to the Cardinals for a middle reliever.

Edited July 19, 2011 by Hairyducked Idiot

[JimSorgi]

What could Lou have done to prevent the crappy postseason play? There's really nothing a manager can do besides play the best players, and he did that. He was a fine manager, nothing great, but not awful either.

 

Sure, Dusty got us farther, but he also destroyed our team.