Tim Wilken

[SouthSideRyan]

Bottom 3 OBP teams' hitting coaches:

 

International

 

Brad Komminsk: 375 OBP in minors

Leon Durham: 376 OBP in minors (actually higher because his first year has no walks listed, but the ABs are still figured into the OBP)

Jamie Dismuke: 367 OBP in minors

 

PCL

 

Sandy Guerrero: 347 OBP in minors

Damon Minor: 371 OBP in minors

Keith Bodie: 316 OBP in minors

 

And so on.

[Sammy Sofa]

 

Top 3 OBP teams from the PCL:

 

Reno .394 OBP Hitting Coach- Rick Burleson (Career Minors OBP .307, Career Majors OBP .328)

Las Vegas .380 OBP Hitting Coach- Chad Mottola (Career Minors OBP .338, Career Majors OBP .263)

Sacramento .371 OBP Hitting Coach- Todd Steverson (Career Minors OBP .340, Career Majors OBP .333)

 

Top 3 OBP teams from the Southern League:

 

Mobile .351 Hitting Coach- Alan Zinter (Career Minors OBP .355, Career Majors OBP .214)

Chattanooga .341 Hitting Coach- Franklin Stubbs (Career Minors OBP .374, Career Majors OBP .303)

Jacksonville .340 Hitting Coach- Corey Hart (Career Minors OBP .371, Never Played in the the Majors)

 

Top 3 OBP teams from the FSL:

 

Bradenton .353 OBP Hitting Coach- Ryan Long (Career Minors OBP .307, Career Majors OBP .300 in 6 games)

Charlotte .339 OBP Hitting Coach- Joe Szekely (Career Minor OBP .331, Never played in the Majors)

Fort Myers .338 OBP Hitting Coach- Jim Dwyer (Career Minors OBP .418, Career Majors OBP .353)

 

Top 3 OBP teams from the Midwest League:

 

Lansing .340 OBP Hitting Coach- John Tamargo (Career Minors OBP .325, Never played in the Majors)

Beloit .338 OBP Hitting Coach- Tommy Watkins (Career Minors OBP .329, Career Majors OBP .438 in 9 games)

Quad Cities .330 OBP Hitting Coach- Joe Kruzel (Never played professional baseball)

 

Thank you! Proves my point. These hitting coaches show more of a tendency, in either the minors or majors, toward better plate discipline than Joshua, Duncan, and Barbaro did during their careers.

 

Wait, what? Did you actually read what you replied to?

[Guest]

well, after the no hitter in Peoria by Kirk a couple a weeks ago, he got shelled, and if you listened to it, the Lake County hitters were aggressive.

 

I think I sense frustration of many years without the TROPHY

 

That can cloud ones eyes and cause myopia

 

If you're just going to ignore what half a dozen people say to you and repeat yourself, then no one will take you seriously.

[UMFan83]

Ironic discussion considering how tonight's game ended.

[idakepps]

 

Top 3 OBP teams from the PCL:

 

Reno .394 OBP Hitting Coach- Rick Burleson (Career Minors OBP .307, Career Majors OBP .328)

Las Vegas .380 OBP Hitting Coach- Chad Mottola (Career Minors OBP .338, Career Majors OBP .263)

Sacramento .371 OBP Hitting Coach- Todd Steverson (Career Minors OBP .340, Career Majors OBP .333)

 

Top 3 OBP teams from the Southern League:

 

Mobile .351 Hitting Coach- Alan Zinter (Career Minors OBP .355, Career Majors OBP .214)

Chattanooga .341 Hitting Coach- Franklin Stubbs (Career Minors OBP .374, Career Majors OBP .303)

Jacksonville .340 Hitting Coach- Corey Hart (Career Minors OBP .371, Never Played in the the Majors)

 

Top 3 OBP teams from the FSL:

 

Bradenton .353 OBP Hitting Coach- Ryan Long (Career Minors OBP .307, Career Majors OBP .300 in 6 games)

Charlotte .339 OBP Hitting Coach- Joe Szekely (Career Minor OBP .331, Never played in the Majors)

Fort Myers .338 OBP Hitting Coach- Jim Dwyer (Career Minors OBP .418, Career Majors OBP .353)

 

Top 3 OBP teams from the Midwest League:

 

Lansing .340 OBP Hitting Coach- John Tamargo (Career Minors OBP .325, Never played in the Majors)

Beloit .338 OBP Hitting Coach- Tommy Watkins (Career Minors OBP .329, Career Majors OBP .438 in 9 games)

Quad Cities .330 OBP Hitting Coach- Joe Kruzel (Never played professional baseball)

 

Thank you! Proves my point. These hitting coaches show more of a tendency, in either the minors or majors, toward better plate discipline than Joshua, Duncan, and Barbaro did during their careers.

 

Wait, what? Did you actually read what you replied to?

 

Ok, let me be man enough to admit that the career OBP of hitting coaches does not necessarily predict whether an organization preaches plate discipline in it's minor leagues. Since some people clearly won't believe what I have to say, just go back to the Fuld comment. Is that good enough? The Cubs preach an aggressive hitting approach at the plate. Yes, this filters down into the minor league coaches. Don't really see what the argument here is.

[Splendid Splinter]

To understand what I am saying, you had to have been in the batters box against at least, someone who can bring it. I have been there.

 

Each plate appearance is an adventure, as well as a strategic challenge.

 

The wanton analysis about walks within this thread makes NO MENTION of the phrase "easier said than done"

 

Go try it!

 

 

I have faced Neal Musser/Clayton Richards/Josh Lindblom (made it to MLB) and Dan Sattler (Arkansas Travelers- AA Angels team)... I also had 2 cousins who played college ball as pitchers as well (one of them was drafted by the Cubs twice- Drew O'Connell, but he never signed). I'm sure there are a lot of people on NSBB who has faced someone who can bring it. Even if that someone didn't even get drafted or anything. Don't know why you think it's something special to say or it's the only way to understand what you are saying. I've never said who I faced before on here before (at least not that I remember anyway) because I assume some/most of these guys on here have played baseball/faced good pitchers/etc...

[javy knows my name]

To understand what I am saying, you had to have been in the batters box against at least, someone who can bring it. I have been there.

 

Each plate appearance is an adventure, as well as a strategic challenge.

 

The wanton analysis about walks within this thread makes NO MENTION of the phrase "easier said than done"

 

Go try it!

 

Now, you could use this interesting experience to add some unique and thoughtful analysis to our discussion here, or you could be an [expletive] about it.

 

Guess which one you've decided to do

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm Bryce Harper.

[UMFan83]

To understand what I am saying, you had to have been in the batters box against at least, someone who can bring it. I have been there.

 

Each plate appearance is an adventure, as well as a strategic challenge.

 

The wanton analysis about walks within this thread makes NO MENTION of the phrase "easier said than done"

 

Go try it!

 

Now, you could use this interesting experience to add some unique and thoughtful analysis to our discussion here, or you could be an [expletive] about it.

 

Guess which one you've decided to do

 

Dude he's better than us. He faced a pitcher who can bring it. That makes him the most qualified expert and his opinions should immediatelly be deemed correct.

[illiniguy]

I'm Bryce Harper.

Nice tats, girl.

[Sammy Sofa]

STEP OFF, BRA.

[questionmarkgrace]

To understand what I am saying, you had to have been in the batters box against at least, someone who can bring it. I have been there.

 

Each plate appearance is an adventure, as well as a strategic challenge.

 

The wanton analysis about walks within this thread makes NO MENTION of the phrase "easier said than done"

 

Go try it!

 

 

I have faced Neal Musser/Clayton Richards/Josh Lindblom (made it to MLB) and Dan Sattler (Arkansas Travelers- AA Angels team)... I also had 2 cousins who played college ball as pitchers as well (one of them was drafted by the Cubs twice- Drew O'Connell, but he never signed). I'm sure there are a lot of people on NSBB who has faced someone who can bring it. Even if that someone didn't even get drafted or anything. Don't know why you think it's something special to say or it's the only way to understand what you are saying. I've never said who I faced before on here before (at least not that I remember anyway) because I assume some/most of these guys on here have played baseball/faced good pitchers/etc...

 

 

"we're happy for ya!"

[toonsterwu]

In an attempt to steer this back to the OP's initial discussion -

 

I think Wilken has done a solid job, but one has to wonder how much he was limited by the previous regime. In the first two years under Ricketts, there has been a bit more gambles on prep players earlier in the draft. Is that a byproduct of the draft classes? Perhaps, but the Wilken I recall from the Blue Jays/Rays took a few more prep chances than he did his first few years in the Cubs system.

 

Right now, our system is probably a bit below average. How much below depends on subjective views on talent. I don't think it's a bad system, bottom five type system (like we were about 5-6 years ago), and I think the system could really blossom in a year or two, due to the pitching (assuming things go well). The pitching side of the system is a bit stronger than the positional side, and that is probably a product of Cubs philosophy to focus more on pitching (as Wilken has acknowledged before, IIRC). The young arms in the low levels are quite exciting and intriguing. Many will falter, but if one or two can blossom, that will be quite useful for the long run. It's about maximizing value from your talent base, and this has to do with the GM/player development folks knowing who to keep and who to move when their value is high.

 

Wilken brought a philosophy to the system that I did not think was there with the Stockstills (or at least, as evident). No philosophy is perfect, and the focus on athletes can often lead to a lack of other key skills in a system, but it was a philosophy that had some sound merit behind it. The focus on collegians did add some depth to the system that was sorely needed in the mid-part of the last decade.

 

Overall, I'm wary of losing Wilken because of how bad things were at one point, but I'm also aware that there could be a lot of improvements made to the system and that there are definitely guys that might be able to be as good, if not better. The concern about the lack of corner power has been something that many of us have noted for awhile, and it's possible previous limitations have hampered Wilken (and it's possible that this draft class could address some concerns).

[dfnowak]

Personally, I won't be sad if the new Cubs GM or Team President (Baseball Guy) decides to replace Tim Wilken and all scouts and instructors w/ his own staff, provided the new staff is of better quality. Even though the system doesn't appear to be in bad shape (but not in great shape either), it's been 5+ years now (under Wilken's watch) and we're still not seeing enough plate discipline at each level and not enough fundamentals being taught. I can't count how many times I've seen players brought up thru the Cubs system that are lacking fundamentals (bunting, baserunning, fielding, plate approach based on situation).

[toonsterwu]

Plate discipline/enough fundamentals being taught aren't directly under Wilken's purview, though. I guess, you could argue that he might have a tendency to select aggressive players, but even then, it's not as if he hasn't gotten some guys that understand how to take pitches/have good approaches at the plate (BJax/Flaherty). The issue of fundamentals as it relates to organizational philosophy would likely have more to do with Hendry/Fleita.

 

I'm also curious who, in the last five years (Wilken's watch), has come up and lack fundamentals. It seems like you are implying that a lot of players have bad fundamentals. Obviously, no one is perfect in every area you've listed, but the tone I get from your post is that this is a fundamentally bad system. Jae-Hoon Ha has a questionable approach at the plate, but he is fundamentally sound in a lot of areas, from his swing, to his defensive ability. I don't know - I just feel like your comment is painting such broad strokes that I am curious about this laundry list of players that you seem to think are fundamentally poor players.

[jersey cubs fan]

In an attempt to steer this back to the OP's initial discussion -

 

I think Wilken has done a solid job, but one has to wonder how much he was limited by the previous regime.

 

Nobody has to wonder that. It's been the built in excuse for everybody in the system. The Cubs did not lack for resources allocated to the system. Nobody was handcuffed. If they can only do their job when they have the biggest budget, that is not a good thing.

[dfnowak]

Plate discipline/enough fundamentals being taught aren't directly under Wilken's purview, though. I guess, you could argue that he might have a tendency to select aggressive players, but even then, it's not as if he hasn't gotten some guys that understand how to take pitches/have good approaches at the plate (BJax/Flaherty). The issue of fundamentals as it relates to organizational philosophy would likely have more to do with Hendry/Fleita.

 

I'm also curious who, in the last five years (Wilken's watch), has come up and lack fundamentals. It seems like you are implying that a lot of players have bad fundamentals. Obviously, no one is perfect in every area you've listed, but the tone I get from your post is that this is a fundamentally bad system. Jae-Hoon Ha has a questionable approach at the plate, but he is fundamentally sound in a lot of areas, from his swing, to his defensive ability. I don't know - I just feel like your comment is painting such broad strokes that I am curious about this laundry list of players that you seem to think are fundamentally poor players.

 

You are right...my arguement about lack of fundamentals should be directed at Hendry and Fleita, not Wilken. Although, the lack of plate discipline through out the minor league system can be at least partly contibuted to Wilken. You are right about BJax and Flaherty, but what about Colvin, Vitters and every minor league level being ranked near the bottom of their respective league in walks? Although, if Wilken is drafting/signing players that can't be taught, that is on him also.

 

As for a lack of fundamentals, a few examples that come to mind are Marmol not backing up Soto on the throw to home a few nights ago, Theriot getting picked off the base path numerous times while w/ the Cubs, some of Castro's fielding errors this year (knowing when and when not to throw the ball and lack of tagging), and I know there have been rookies called up (although I can't think of specific players) who have failed to lay down a bunt.

 

And I guess it shouldn't be directed just at the minor league players...what about veterans from other teams they bring in? If they are known to have bad fundamentals, that's on Hendry and his major league scouts for turning a blind eye to those attributes.

Edited July 18, 2011 by dfnowak

[Rob]

I'm also curious who, in the last five years (Wilken's watch), has come up and lack fundamentals.

 

Castro would probably fit the bill. Of course, his development is almost the very definition of "special circumstances."

[questionmarkgrace]

I'm also curious who, in the last five years (Wilken's watch), has come up and lack fundamentals.

 

Castro would probably fit the bill. Of course, his development is almost the very definition of "special circumstances."

 

Seriously if it wasnt for his remarkable ability to make contact castro's poor plate discipline, inability to take a walk, and defensive play would be so much more of a problem. That he is gifted has allowed his talent to superscede these flaws. Flaws that he will most certainly need correct in order to continue to be a star.

[dew1679666265]

I'm also curious who, in the last five years (Wilken's watch), has come up and lack fundamentals.

 

Castro would probably fit the bill. Of course, his development is almost the very definition of "special circumstances."

 

I don't really see how Castro is a good example of this. Generally 20-21 year old players are in either A or AA struggling with their defense and learning the very things Castro is having to at the major league level. I've also previously outlined many great defensive SS who came up at Castro's age (and later) who have struggled mightily with errors.

 

As you said, Castro is the very definition of special circumstances.

[dew1679666265]

In an attempt to steer this back to the OP's initial discussion -

 

I think Wilken has done a solid job, but one has to wonder how much he was limited by the previous regime.

 

Nobody has to wonder that. It's been the built in excuse for everybody in the system. The Cubs did not lack for resources allocated to the system. Nobody was handcuffed. If they can only do their job when they have the biggest budget, that is not a good thing.

 

It may not be purely monetary restrictions, though. This draft was very heavy on high school players, while previous drafts have been heavily college guys. Was Wilken under directions to focus on taking collegiate athletes in previous years? If so, that falls on Hendry/ownership rather than Wilken, who is simply following orders.

 

Also, I've seen stuff people have posted that show spending money in the draft correlates pretty directly with picking successful players. It's not like Wilken's been having terrible drafts without a lot of money to spend either. If he's had monetary restrictions and has produced decent to good drafts, then it would logically follow that with more money to spend he could produce some very good to great drafts.

[jersey cubs fan]

If he's had monetary restrictions and has produced decent to good drafts, then it would logically follow that with more money to spend he could produce some very good to great drafts.

 

Except they weren't producing good drafts.

[dew1679666265]

If he's had monetary restrictions and has produced decent to good drafts, then it would logically follow that with more money to spend he could produce some very good to great drafts.

 

Except they weren't producing good drafts.

 

You don't think Wilken's produced good drafts? Really? Where did these good prospects we have in our system come from?

[jersey cubs fan]

If he's had monetary restrictions and has produced decent to good drafts, then it would logically follow that with more money to spend he could produce some very good to great drafts.

 

Except they weren't producing good drafts.

 

You don't think Wilken's produced good drafts? Really? Where did these good prospects we have in our system come from?

 

What good prospects?

 

Yes, it's been 5 years and the Cubs have a mediocre system. 5 years of good drafts would have produced a much better system by now.

[Guest]

If he's had monetary restrictions and has produced decent to good drafts, then it would logically follow that with more money to spend he could produce some very good to great drafts.

 

Except they weren't producing good drafts.

 

You don't think Wilken's produced good drafts? Really? Where did these good prospects we have in our system come from?

What good prospects? Wilken's main job is the draft and his record on drafted players isn't so good.

 

I'm willing to let some of the fault rest with the development guys though.