Tim Wilken

[dfnowak]

What are everyone's thoughts on the overall state of the Cubs minor league system? Wilken has been here 5+ years now, so the system is completely filled w/ players he, Oneiri, and the rest of his staff have scouted. Kevin Goldstein was on WSCR 670 yesterday and he assessed the Cubs minor league system overall as below average. He might be under rating the Cubs system a bit, but I don't think he's far off. There are no can't miss 1B or 3B prospects in development nor any front of the rotation starters at this point. And as of a few weeks ago, Iowa, Tennessee, Daytona, and Peoria all ranked near the bottom of their respective leagues in walks taken, which seems like an organizational (Hendry) philosophy. If Hendry gets canned at the end of this year, would you like to see Wilken get let go as well if the new GM or team president want to bring in their own guy to run the minor league system? Or, do you think Wilken deserves to stay?

[chi-guy]

I'm pro-Wilken as granted it's his 5th year but really you can't blame the first three on him. Would I like more top level prospects? Yes. Find me an organization that would answer 'no' to that. Particularly from AA down I really like what I hear and read about the kids in the system. I'd be all for new management (which I'm in favor of) keeping Wilken around to see this thing through but I also would fully understand any new President/GM wanting to put "his guy" in charge.

 

I think in the next 2-3 years you'll be seeing a lot of Hendry/Wilken guys playing at Clark and Addison and a more competitive Cubs team that we have on the field today.

[KingCubsFan]

Judging by the difference between this year's draft and drafts in previous years, it's possible Wilkin may have been under some budget constraints, so it's tough to fully evaluate him.

[davearm2]

Having a "below average" minor league system can be a byproduct of graduations and trades.

 

So obviously you can't evaluate Wilken without including guys that have reached the majors (Castro, Carpenter, Cashner, etc) or were traded (Lee, Guyer, etc).

[dfnowak]

With the organizational philosophy of hitters being aggressive and not taking walks, do you think that's all on Hendry or does Wilken believe in that philosophy too? Personally, I would like to see hitters coming through the system that know how to work a count and take some walks. I worry that if Wilken is kept around, this philosophy will continue. And I would like to see better fundamentals installed in our minor leaguers than what the current ones that have reached the majors have shown thus far, but that could be due to the currennt minor league instructors and maybe they get replaced by the new Cubs management.

[Guest]

With the organizational philosophy of hitters being aggressive and not taking walks, do you think that's all on Hendry or does Wilken believe in that philosophy too? Personally, I would like to see hitters coming through the system that know how to work a count and take some walks. I worry that if Wilken is kept around, this philosophy will continue. And I would like to see better fundamentals installed in our minor leaguers than what the current ones that have reached the majors have shown thus far, but that could be due to the currennt minor league instructors and maybe they get replaced by the new Cubs management.

We've got some players sprinkled throughout the system such as BJackson, Golden and a few others that draw a lot of walks. I don't think there's an organizational bias against it, I just don't think they see plate discipline as an important part of the evaluation process.

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't think there's an organizational bias against it,

 

I don't see how you can have a decade as bad as the Cubs have had in terms of patience at the plate and not have an organizational bias against it.

[Guest]

I don't think there's an organizational bias against it,

 

I don't see how you can have a decade as bad as the Cubs have had in terms of patience at the plate and not have an organizational bias against it.

There's a difference between not caring about it and trying to avoid it. The Cubs would not have drafted Jackson if they were trying to avoid players with walks. Nor would they have signed Pena.

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't think there's an organizational bias against it,

 

I don't see how you can have a decade as bad as the Cubs have had in terms of patience at the plate and not have an organizational bias against it.

There's a difference between not caring about it and trying to avoid it. The Cubs would not have drafted Jackson if they were trying to avoid players with walks. Nor would they have signed Pena.

 

Yes, there is a difference, but there is a difference between what Wilken does and what Hendry does as well. Wilken may flirt with patience more often. Hendry may occasionally acknowledge it, but if you are consistently filling your organization with the most impatient players in the league, for a decade, there's a built in bias against it.

[BearClaw]

drawing a lot of walks can be misleading because of the various types of walks that occur

 

1. a "pitch-around" walk is a matter of strategy(force play) and the recipient didn't do much to earn it

 

2. a "wild" walk, 4 straight balls from an ineffective pitcher is based on pitcher fault

 

walks that have meaning are the result of a plate appearance that looks like this

 

BSFFBFBFFFB

 

that statline combines selective aggressiveness, keen eye, bat control

 

It would be interesting to hear from the horse's mouth what is told to developing hitters and the instructions they are handed down. I would venture a guess that many are told things the club wants to see and are given "a pass" from the resulting stats/failures during the process.

 

There was an article that mentioned Boise wanted Hoilman to work on his oppo hitting versus pull. When a change to a hitting approach is in process, hitters will get themselves out more. At age 22 and 4 college seasons, sometimes certain programs minimize player development in favor of winning, and I would guess that was the case.

 

Golden, raw and not yet 20 has much more time to develop his approach, and Chen appears to already have a very good pole-2-pole style at the same age. My guess is his stay in Boise is based on when they feel he has made the full conversion from 2B to CF. Klafczynski, who just moved up to Peoria has that pole-2-pole history, with some power, and as a true RF(arm-assists), I would guess they may be allowing him to "sell-out" at times in favor of the longball? His Chief debut happened to include an oppo line drive HR over the high LF wall? His K rate is currently higher than college which is why I feel pro instruction is based on needs versus stats/results much of the time.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Easterling is flown into Vancouver to meet up with the Hawks, and eventually Chen and Taiwan get to Peoria sooner than later, same for Darvill, and maybe Hoilman. We shall see?

[sneakypower]

"He's got one gait and it's always aggressive," Bailey said. "To me, it's the perfect thing for a young player. Players learn when they're aggressive."

quotes like this definitely support the notion of an organization that doesn't emphasize enough working the count

[Guest]

"He's got one gait and it's always aggressive," Bailey said. "To me, it's the perfect thing for a young player. Players learn when they're aggressive."

quotes like this definitely support the notion of an organization that doesn't emphasize enough working the count

No question. I guess I was splitting hairs in my earlier post, but I strongly wish they would teach a better plate approach as part of the development process.

[SouthSideRyan]

Isuppose it depends on who your manager is, and who your front office is. I came up in the Cubs system, and they’re probably not as involved in the statistics side of the game as some other organizations. It still is important to me to get on base, even though (laughs) there were some guys who, all they cared about was my average.

 

Keri: Were they telling you, “be aggressive, be aggressive, swing, swing, swing?”

 

Fuld: Yeah, I definitely got a lot of that sort of instruction. It’s frustrating, but it’s reality. You have to please your boss before anybody else. That’s one of the things I’m actually looking forward to in going to the Rays, is maybe a little more advanced thinking when it comes to the numbers of baseball.

 

[dfnowak]

Iowa, Tennessee, Daytona, and Peoria all rank near the bottom of their respective leagues in team walks...yeah, I think it's an organizational issue.

[Little Slide Rooter]

From what I gather, Wilkens MO is to fill the system with role playersand guys who can be everyday players but not quite stars and build them around the stars aquired through trade or FA, which is all fine and dandy if we can aquire said stars through trade and FA.

[dfnowak]

Isuppose it depends on who your manager is, and who your front office is. I came up in the Cubs system, and they’re probably not as involved in the statistics side of the game as some other organizations. It still is important to me to get on base, even though (laughs) there were some guys who, all they cared about was my average.

 

Keri: Were they telling you, “be aggressive, be aggressive, swing, swing, swing?”

 

Fuld: Yeah, I definitely got a lot of that sort of instruction. It’s frustrating, but it’s reality. You have to please your boss before anybody else. That’s one of the things I’m actually looking forward to in going to the Rays, is maybe a little more advanced thinking when it comes to the numbers of baseball.

 

 

Well that pretty much sums it up

[Guest]

Iowa, Tennessee, Daytona, and Peoria all rank near the bottom of their respective leagues in team walks...yeah, I think it's an organizational issue.

The Cubs are typically among the more aggressive teams in promoting their players, as well. That also plays into those results.

[dfnowak]

So if Hendry gets canned and replaced w/ a front office that places more emphasis on statistics (hopefully), I wonder if they would keep Wilken?

[sneakypower]

From what I gather, Wilkens MO is to fill the system with role playersand guys who can be everyday players but not quite stars and build them around the stars aquired through trade or FA, which is all fine and dandy if we can aquire said stars through trade and FA.

unfortunately, these are the players that are (relatively) really easy to find

 

Scott Sizemore, and Andrew Miller, and Franklin Morales, and Cameron Maybin were all each just acquired for i don't know, a pack of Big League Chew, and here we are hoping all our minor leaguers develop to be these types of players

 

[expletive] it, just go for broke and fill the system full of high potential guys; more Goldens and Burgesses and Lakes and Rundles, please, and just go reap the benefits of other teams' impatience to find your average starters or role players

[UMFan83]

Iowa, Tennessee, Daytona, and Peoria all rank near the bottom of their respective leagues in team walks...yeah, I think it's an organizational issue.

The Cubs are typically among the more aggressive teams in promoting their players, as well. That also plays into those results.

 

Well lets look at the "home grown" players on the 40 man Cubs roster. (aka players who spent at least a season or two of time in the Cubs minor league system)

 

Soto - Above average discipline

Barney - Below average discipline

Castro - Below average discipline

Campana - meh, slightly below average based on minor league numbers

Colvin - Below average discipline

LeMahieu - slightly below average based on minors

Montaniez - average discipline

 

I think its pretty hard to deny that the Cubs system doesn't produce a lot of patient hitters, but as to why this is the case, there are probably a lot of reasons.

[Guest]

I think I had knocked that Sam Fuld interview out of my mind. How depressing.

[Illini Iceman]

Isuppose it depends on who your manager is, and who your front office is. I came up in the Cubs system, and they’re probably not as involved in the statistics side of the game as some other organizations. It still is important to me to get on base, even though (laughs) there were some guys who, all they cared about was my average.

 

Keri: Were they telling you, “be aggressive, be aggressive, swing, swing, swing?”

 

Fuld: Yeah, I definitely got a lot of that sort of instruction. It’s frustrating, but it’s reality. You have to please your boss before anybody else. That’s one of the things I’m actually looking forward to in going to the Rays, is maybe a little more advanced thinking when it comes to the numbers of baseball.

 

 

Well that pretty much sums it up

 

He must feel great now that he finally is out of the Cubs organization and has the freedom to put up that sparkling .299 OBP as a member of the Rays.

[davell]

From what I gather, Wilkens MO is to fill the system with role playersand guys who can be everyday players but not quite stars and build them around the stars aquired through trade or FA, which is all fine and dandy if we can aquire said stars through trade and FA.

unfortunately, these are the players that are (relatively) really easy to find

 

Scott Sizemore, and Andrew Miller, and Franklin Morales, and Cameron Maybin were all each just acquired for i don't know, a pack of Big League Chew, and here we are hoping all our minor leaguers develop to be these types of players

 

[expletive] it, just go for broke and fill the system full of high potential guys; more Goldens and Burgesses and Lakes and Rundles, please, and just go reap the benefits of other teams' impatience to find your average starters or role players

 

That's the thing. I think he actually just did that actually. Our draft this year was MUCH different than in year's past. We've got as much depth as any system in baseball, so we finally took the upside guys this year to give us a different look. Money may very well have been an issue as well previously, but hopefully we sign quite a few guys out of this draft, because it could give our system a completely different look.

 

I do remember a quote from Wilken saying Hendry had told him to find him "major leaguers" in the past. To me, that implies finding guys with less upside but high floors and Wilken has done a solid job of providing that. My guess is that his philosophy isn't the exact same as Hendry's(even though they are really good friends evidently) and we'll see him with more drafts like this one, if we have a new GM or not......

 

In the end, for me, I like him and want him around for years to come.

[Rob]

With the exception of this year, I have hated each and every Wilken draft... at least on draft day. A couple years later, they generally look a whole lot better... to the point that even I have to concede that he's probably an above average scouting director. Unless we're bringing in a particularly talented guy like Logan White to take over, I don't see a good reason to be rid of Wilken.

 

Fleita on the other hand... I'm sad to say it since he does seem like a genuinely nice person, but it's time for him to go.

[Vanilla Ice]

Fleita on the other hand... I'm sad to say it since he does seem like a genuinely nice person, but it's time for him to go.

What are the issues with Fleita? I legitimately don't know much about his responsibilities.