College Basketball 2011-2012

[Vanilla Ice]

What's the difference between Maryland and Illinois?

[snoodmonger]

I know I was being snarky, but does anyone care to address the disconnect between UNC 2000 and Kentucky 2007 compared to Illinois 2012 with their respective hires?

 

what are you asking?

[SouthSideRyan]

I know I was being snarky, but does anyone care to address the disconnect between UNC 2000 and Kentucky 2007 compared to Illinois 2012 with their respective hires?

 

what are you asking?

 

How you can say "obviously this job isn't that great when you were rejected by your 1st 2 options, and wound up with a meh candidate."

 

Was UNC 2000 obviously not a great job? Was UK 2007 obviously not a great job?

[Vanilla Ice]

Also...

 

Looking at other jobs on the list using the criteria of:

1) Recruiting Base

2) Money / Revenue

3) Conference affiliation

4) Prestige (program history)

5) Fan Support

 

Florida: From a recruiting perspective, Florida is a football state and doesn't generate the hoops talent that Chicago does. Both programs are flush with cash. SEC? Hoops? Right. Florida was nothing in hoops until Donovan got there. While they've certainly had more success under him than Illinois has had during that time, I'm not sure that's a better job once he leaves. For fan support...once again, football will always be first there.

 

Georgetown: The Baltimore/DC/North VA area definitely produces talent, though not quite on par with Chicago. The basketball program is well-funded, but the athletics program as a whole suffers from a lack of football. The Big East is a hot mess right now and getting worse rapidly. I'll concede program history over the past 30-40 years on this one. I don't think there's a significant difference in fan support.

 

Marquette: Definitely behind in mining the Chicago base. The program generates money, but not quite on a par with Illinois and again the lack of football hurts here. Big east issues again. The program history is no better than Illinois. Fan support is probably a wash, also.

 

Texas: See Florida, but add $$$$ and take away Donovan's success.

 

There's a lot of basketball talent in Texas.

and Florida

[snoodmonger]

Also...

 

Looking at other jobs on the list using the criteria of:

1) Recruiting Base

2) Money / Revenue

3) Conference affiliation

4) Prestige (program history)

5) Fan Support

 

Florida: From a recruiting perspective, Florida is a football state and doesn't generate the hoops talent that Chicago does. Both programs are flush with cash. SEC? Hoops? Right. Florida was nothing in hoops until Donovan got there. While they've certainly had more success under him than Illinois has had during that time, I'm not sure that's a better job once he leaves. For fan support...once again, football will always be first there.

 

Georgetown: The Baltimore/DC/North VA area definitely produces talent, though not quite on par with Chicago. The basketball program is well-funded, but the athletics program as a whole suffers from a lack of football. The Big East is a hot mess right now and getting worse rapidly. I'll concede program history over the past 30-40 years on this one. I don't think there's a significant difference in fan support.

 

Marquette: Definitely behind in mining the Chicago base. The program generates money, but not quite on a par with Illinois and again the lack of football hurts here. Big east issues again. The program history is no better than Illinois. Fan support is probably a wash, also.

 

Texas: See Florida, but add $$$$ and take away Donovan's success.

 

There's a lot of basketball talent in Texas.

glad you agree on everything else. :good:

 

I didn't say I did. I was just calling you out on a pretty big swing and miss in that post.

[jersey cubs fan]

What's the difference between Maryland and Illinois?

 

crabs

[SpongeWorthy]

I know I was being snarky, but does anyone care to address the disconnect between UNC 2000 and Kentucky 2007 compared to Illinois 2012 with their respective hires?

 

what are you asking?

 

How you can say "obviously this job isn't that great when you were rejected by your 1st 2 options, and wound up with a meh candidate."

 

Was UNC 2000 obviously not a great job? Was UK 2007 obviously not a great job?

 

I thought Matt Doherty was considered a home run and Gillispie a pretty damn good hire?

[SouthSideRyan]

kentucky

duke

n carolina

louisville

michigan st

ohio st

kansas

florida

georgetown

texas

syracuse

uconn

marquette

ucla

 

How many of those jobs would Smart And Stevens leave for? 4? 5?

[KingCubsFan]

Also...

 

Looking at other jobs on the list using the criteria of:

1) Recruiting Base

2) Money / Revenue

3) Conference affiliation

4) Prestige (program history)

5) Fan Support

 

Much of this stuff is quite arbitrarily judged. And it really doesn't matter that Chicago produces a lot of talent if none of it wants to play in the wasteland of Champaign, Illinois.

We just got 4 of the top 6 kids from Chicago in 2011. In 2010 we got Mr. Basketball from there and another 4 star. In 2009 we also got Mr. Basketball from a suberb of Chicago. That's not exactly "no one wanting to come to the wasteland of Champaign."

Right, but the premier kids haven't wanted to come in quite some time. Guys like Curry, Livingston, Rose, Scheyer, Davis, etc. never gave Illinois much of a chance. If Illinois is such a top program, you think they would have been able to get at least one.

[SouthSideRyan]

I know I was being snarky, but does anyone care to address the disconnect between UNC 2000 and Kentucky 2007 compared to Illinois 2012 with their respective hires?

 

what are you asking?

 

How you can say "obviously this job isn't that great when you were rejected by your 1st 2 options, and wound up with a meh candidate."

 

Was UNC 2000 obviously not a great job? Was UK 2007 obviously not a great job?

 

I thought Matt Doherty was considered a home run and Gillispie a pretty damn good hire?

 

Doherty was like their 6th choice.

[snoodmonger]

I know I was being snarky, but does anyone care to address the disconnect between UNC 2000 and Kentucky 2007 compared to Illinois 2012 with their respective hires?

 

what are you asking?

 

How you can say "obviously this job isn't that great when you were rejected by your 1st 2 options, and wound up with a meh candidate."

 

Was UNC 2000 obviously not a great job? Was UK 2007 obviously not a great job?

 

I don't remember who UNC went after in 2000 besides Roy. I do vaguely recall NBA coaches like George Karl lobbying for the gig, though. UNC's big problem is that it limits its pool by refusing to go outside the Carolina family. They'd probably get any coach they'd want if they didn't limit themselves.

 

ETA: Unless they did go outside the UNC family, and I just forgot. In the case, just ignore this entire post.

ETA: I just checked, and it looks like they pursued George Karl, Larry Brown, Roy Williams, and Eddie Fogler (lol). Swinging and missing on those guys (with the exception of Fogler) is significantly different than swinging and missing on Smart and Stevens.

 

I also don't remember the circumstances around UK. Who did they pursue?

Edited March 30, 2012 by snoodmonger

[illiniguy]

Also...

 

Looking at other jobs on the list using the criteria of:

1) Recruiting Base

2) Money / Revenue

3) Conference affiliation

4) Prestige (program history)

5) Fan Support

 

Much of this stuff is quite arbitrarily judged. And it really doesn't matter that Chicago produces a lot of talent if none of it wants to play in the wasteland of Champaign, Illinois.

We just got 4 of the top 6 kids from Chicago in 2011. In 2010 we got Mr. Basketball from there and another 4 star. In 2009 we also got Mr. Basketball from a suberb of Chicago. That's not exactly "no one wanting to come to the wasteland of Champaign."

Right, but the premier kids haven't wanted to come in quite some time. Guys like Curry, Livingston, Rose, Scheyer, Davis, etc. never gave Illinois much of a chance. If Illinois is such a top program, you think they would have been able to get at least one.

Richmond was ranked above Scheyer. Two of those guys didn't go to college. How the hell were we supposed to get them to come? How would landing Rose have helped us? Would have gotten us blasted back to the stone age.

[SpongeWorthy]

I know I was being snarky, but does anyone care to address the disconnect between UNC 2000 and Kentucky 2007 compared to Illinois 2012 with their respective hires?

 

what are you asking?

 

How you can say "obviously this job isn't that great when you were rejected by your 1st 2 options, and wound up with a meh candidate."

 

Was UNC 2000 obviously not a great job? Was UK 2007 obviously not a great job?

 

I thought Matt Doherty was considered a home run and Gillispie a pretty damn good hire?

 

Doherty was like their 6th choice.

 

buh, I guess you're right. I remember ND being better than they were when Doherty was coaching them. They had a very high profile bubble bursting IIRC.

[Guest]

Also...

 

Looking at other jobs on the list using the criteria of:

1) Recruiting Base

2) Money / Revenue

3) Conference affiliation

4) Prestige (program history)

5) Fan Support

 

Florida: From a recruiting perspective, Florida is a football state and doesn't generate the hoops talent that Chicago does. Both programs are flush with cash. SEC? Hoops? Right. Florida was nothing in hoops until Donovan got there. While they've certainly had more success under him than Illinois has had during that time, I'm not sure that's a better job once he leaves. For fan support...once again, football will always be first there.

 

Georgetown: The Baltimore/DC/North VA area definitely produces talent, though not quite on par with Chicago. The basketball program is well-funded, but the athletics program as a whole suffers from a lack of football. The Big East is a hot mess right now and getting worse rapidly. I'll concede program history over the past 30-40 years on this one. I don't think there's a significant difference in fan support.

 

Marquette: Definitely behind in mining the Chicago base. The program generates money, but not quite on a par with Illinois and again the lack of football hurts here. Big east issues again. The program history is no better than Illinois. Fan support is probably a wash, also.

 

Texas: See Florida, but add $$$$ and take away Donovan's success.

 

There's a lot of basketball talent in Texas.

glad you agree on everything else. :good:

 

I didn't say I did. I was just calling you out on a pretty big swing and miss in that post.

Okay, Texas produces basketball talent - it's a huge population base. If we look purely at the HS rankings over the past 10 years, I'd say that Illinois produces more high end talent than Texas, but it's probably not a big margin.

 

I'd guess it's a pretty decent margin over FL, though.

[Guest]

people seem to be confusing Bruce crapping the bed with the job not being that great.

[KingCubsFan]

I know I was being snarky, but does anyone care to address the disconnect between UNC 2000 and Kentucky 2007 compared to Illinois 2012 with their respective hires?

 

what are you asking?

 

How you can say "obviously this job isn't that great when you were rejected by your 1st 2 options, and wound up with a meh candidate."

 

Was UNC 2000 obviously not a great job? Was UK 2007 obviously not a great job?

 

I thought Matt Doherty was considered a home run and Gillispie a pretty damn good hire?

I think Doherty was the second choice after Roy Williams turned it down.

[snoodmonger]

I know I was being snarky, but does anyone care to address the disconnect between UNC 2000 and Kentucky 2007 compared to Illinois 2012 with their respective hires?

 

what are you asking?

 

How you can say "obviously this job isn't that great when you were rejected by your 1st 2 options, and wound up with a meh candidate."

 

Was UNC 2000 obviously not a great job? Was UK 2007 obviously not a great job?

 

I thought Matt Doherty was considered a home run and Gillispie a pretty damn good hire?

I think Doherty was the second choice after Roy Williams turned it down.

 

I just checked. They tried to get Roy, George Karl, Larry Brown, and Eddie Fogler. Doherty was down the list. But the guys above him were in a different stratosphere than Smart/Stevens. Kinda hard to compare missing out on Larry Brown with missing out on Shaka Smart.

[SouthSideRyan]

What jobs do you think Brad Stevens and Shaka Smart would accept if offered?

[UK1679666180]

I know I was being snarky, but does anyone care to address the disconnect between UNC 2000 and Kentucky 2007 compared to Illinois 2012 with their respective hires?

 

what are you asking?

 

How you can say "obviously this job isn't that great when you were rejected by your 1st 2 options, and wound up with a meh candidate."

 

Was UNC 2000 obviously not a great job? Was UK 2007 obviously not a great job?

 

I don't remember who UNC went after in 2000 besides Roy. I do vaguely recall NBA coaches like George Karl lobbying for the gig, though. UNC's big problem is that it limits its pool by refusing to go outside the Carolina family. They'd probably get any coach they'd want if they didn't limit themselves.

 

ETA: Unless they did go outside the UNC family, and I just forgot. In the case, just ignore this entire post.

ETA: I just checked, and it looks like they pursued George Karl, Larry Brown, Roy Williams, and Eddie Fogler (lol). Swinging and missing on those guys (with the exception of Fogler) is significantly different than swinging and missing on Smart and Stevens.

 

I also don't remember the circumstances around UK. Who did they pursue?

 

UK went after Donovan 1st and likely Few at Gonzaga, Izzo, and Barnes at Texas before Billy Clyde. There were rumors about Calipari but neither side was too interested at the time.

 

Look at this old thread:

http://www.northsidebaseball.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=39260&hilit=donovan

 

Nice call on Crean, Exile.

Edited March 30, 2012 by UK

[SouthSideRyan]

I didn't even know who Eddie Fogler was. Missing on him is more embarrassing than if Groce turned us down.

[SouthSideRyan]

Thanks UK, I remembered Donovan, and the dalliance with Calipari, but couldn't get names on the others.

[Formerly Snayke]

kentucky

duke

n carolina

louisville

michigan st

ohio st

kansas

florida

georgetown

texas

syracuse

uconn

marquette

ucla

 

How many of those jobs would Smart And Stevens leave for? 4? 5?

 

The obvious ones and maybe Syracuse/Michigan State.

 

Why the hell is Ohio State on this list? Are schools being judged now on what they've done over the past five years?

[SouthSideRyan]

Are schools being judged now on what they've done over the past five years?

 

Yes, they are.

[Magnetic Curses]

I know I was being snarky, but does anyone care to address the disconnect between UNC 2000 and Kentucky 2007 compared to Illinois 2012 with their respective hires?

 

what are you asking?

 

How you can say "obviously this job isn't that great when you were rejected by your 1st 2 options, and wound up with a meh candidate."

 

Was UNC 2000 obviously not a great job? Was UK 2007 obviously not a great job?

 

don't forget alabama football. didn't the rutgers coach turn them down before mike shula or whomever, accepted the job?

[UK1679666180]

Illinois should be a top 15 program, curious to see what they do to Assembly Hall with the new cash. I do think having an interim President weighs more than what has been brought up as has trustee interference as far as job attractiveness in the short-term.

 

Chicago is so overrated in regards to how important it should be to Illinois basketball, Self recruited nationally as should Croce. It hurts that Peoria isn't the hot-spot as it was 10-15 years ago, but it shouldn't be the difference between an annual top 20 team and what has happened over the last few seasons. Illini are likely going to have to get dirty to get AAU kids and the few top Chicago guys, like Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, etc.

 

I can't fault Stevens or Smart for not leaving, I don't think them being at mid-major schools diminishes Illinois' accomplishments beyond what has already been known that it's not a top 5 job, which is what it would've taken most likely.