Pujols signs with Angels pg 151

[davell]

Considering Fielder will likely cost much much less than Pujols, is it possible that the Cards could pursue Fielder if they lose Pujols?

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure they've already said they won't. I think Berkman moves back to 1B and maybe they go after Rollins and Buehrle with the Pujols' money that's unspent.

[Hollandsworths mug]

Keeping up the good vibes re: Fielder:

 

@Jon_Heyman

Jon Heyman

#cubs seem to be sincere player in #prince discussions. A few others still in. As well.

 

I have no doubt they know the Pujols ship has sailed to Miami. I really think Theo and the gang know what a special, young talent Fielder is and they'll make a serious play for him. This will not hinder their plan to draft well and build from within. No reason at all not to sign one of the great talents in the game if he's available.

 

Time for Sveum to go into recruit mode.

[XZero771679666304]

This is just getting depressing. Once again, though, I trust Theo but I can't watch this team lose 95 games next year. I'd like to have a good summer of baseball.

 

Why don't we wait until, say... Februrary at the earliest before anyone makes the conscious decision to consider writing off the season, yeah?

 

I agree with that. I will let the winter meetings play out and see who signs where. If Pujols and Prince are still on the board, I will feel better. I actually want Fielder more than Pujols.

 

Well that's not very smart.

 

Fielder in his best years is about as good as Pujols in a down year. In all likelihood Fielder's decline will be early, abrupt and severe... whereas Pujols has secondary skills that suggest he'll age more gracefully.

 

Unless Fielder comes well north of 100 million dollars cheaper, there's no reason to prefer him.

 

 

I hear what you're saying, but the more I look at Pujols, the more I see a player in pretty clear decline.

 

Over the past four seasons you're looking at incremental (a bit precipitous in 2011) declines in WAR, wOBA, OPS, BB/K, OPS+ and a host of other stats. His plate discipline is suffering, as evidenced by increasing o-swing percentages over the past few seasons which as noted by other could be indicative of him cheating more due to decreased bat speed.

 

2011 looks like an outlier, but not by as much as it may seem, and is in line with a pretty clear downward trend in production.

 

It would be reasonable to expect him to rebound a bit over the next season or maybe two, but I wouldn't be stunned if it wasn't by much if at all. I think we may have seen his last 1.000 OPS season and I wouldn't be shocked if he's less than an .850 OPS player within 3-4 years. If the cost of Pujols is 7+ years, I think you have to shift your focus elsewhere.

 

JMHO.

[davell]

I don't see us heavily involved with Pujols either, but with Theo, nothing's going to surprise me either. The Marlins are certainly showing and telling everyone how serious they are. The Cards don't have to say how serious they are, the whole world already knows it. We could be the wildcard in all of this and it's stayed quiet as hell, because of how Theo works. I don't think we're coming down to the wire here with them, but who knows?

[XZero771679666304]

Considering Fielder will likely cost much much less than Pujols, is it possible that the Cards could pursue Fielder if they lose Pujols?

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure they've already said they won't. I think Berkman moves back to 1B and maybe they go after Rollins and Buehrle with the Pujols' money that's unspent.

 

 

I think that's will happen if Pujols leaves, except for maybe Rollins. Berkman to 1B is an obvious move and I think they're trying to clear a rotation spot for Buehrle. I could see them signing Alex Gonzalez rather than committing five years to Rollins.

[NonProfitCow]

I think that's will happen if Pujols leaves, except for maybe Rollins. Berkman to 1B is an obvious move and I think they're trying to clear a rotation spot for Buehrle. I could see them signing Alex Gonzalez rather than committing five years to Rollins.

Rollins isn't getting 5 years

[Hollandsworths mug]

I don't see us heavily involved with Pujols either, but with Theo, nothing's going to surprise me either. The Marlins are certainly showing and telling everyone how serious they are. The Cards don't have to say how serious they are, the whole world already knows it. We could be the wildcard in all of this and it's stayed quiet as hell, because of how Theo works. I don't think we're coming down to the wire here with them, but who knows?

 

Yeah, if I hear something like: "Cubs jump in and trump all offers, steal Pujols at last minute", I will go nuts. However, it looks like Fielder is the target now.

[ctcf]

I don't see us heavily involved with Pujols either, but with Theo, nothing's going to surprise me either. The Marlins are certainly showing and telling everyone how serious they are. The Cards don't have to say how serious they are, the whole world already knows it. We could be the wildcard in all of this and it's stayed quiet as hell, because of how Theo works. I don't think we're coming down to the wire here with them, but who knows?

 

Yeah, if I hear something like: "Cubs jump in and trump all offers, steal Pujols at last minute", I will go nuts. However, it looks like Fielder is the target now.

 

Considering what's probably currently on the table, I'd be depressed.

 

There's no way Theo's darkhorsing this thing. The Marlins are probably at 220-240 million over 10 years.

[XZero771679666304]

I think that's will happen if Pujols leaves, except for maybe Rollins. Berkman to 1B is an obvious move and I think they're trying to clear a rotation spot for Buehrle. I could see them signing Alex Gonzalez rather than committing five years to Rollins.

Rollins isn't getting 5 years

 

Maybe not, but he's going to command more than he's worth because of reputation (imo). He's really not all that good anymore, so I hope you guys get him.

[ctcf]

BNightengale Bob Nightengale

NEW TEAM JOINS PUJOLS BIDDING .http://usat.ly/sgijT1

 

oh dear

[ctcf]

I may soon be eating my words. I hope I'm not:

 

BNightengale Bob Nightengale

#STLCARDS Pujols now has three teams that are offering 10-year contracts in excess of $200 million: STL, MIAMI, AND unidentified team

 

EDIT: The Nationals maybe?

[XZero771679666304]

I don't see us heavily involved with Pujols either, but with Theo, nothing's going to surprise me either. The Marlins are certainly showing and telling everyone how serious they are. The Cards don't have to say how serious they are, the whole world already knows it. We could be the wildcard in all of this and it's stayed quiet as hell, because of how Theo works. I don't think we're coming down to the wire here with them, but who knows?

 

Yeah, if I hear something like: "Cubs jump in and trump all offers, steal Pujols at last minute", I will go nuts. However, it looks like Fielder is the target now.

 

Considering what's probably currently on the table, I'd be depressed.

 

There's no way Theo's darkhorsing this thing. The Marlins are probably at 220-240 million over 10 years.

 

I think any possibility of Albert to the Cubs died with the Marlins' 10 year offer. He can't turn down that kind of total value (be it from them or a matching Cards offer) and Theo and Jed are too smart to go there. A shorter, higher AAV offer might have worked if the competing offers were 7-9 years, but not now.

[Have a seat, Neifi]

@BNightengale

Bob Nightengale

#STLCARDS Pujols now has three teams that are offering 10-year contracts in excess of $200 million: STL, MIAMI, AND unidentified team

[XZero771679666304]

I may soon be eating my words. I hope I'm not:

 

BNightengale Bob Nightengale

#STLCARDS Pujols now has three teams that are offering 10-year contracts in excess of $200 million: STL, MIAMI, AND unidentified team

 

EDIT: The Nationals maybe?

 

I'd guess Texas if I had to.

[MWV]

Hope its not the Cubs (at those years/dollars). Just jacks up the price for STL/Miami. Great news.

[ctcf]

I may soon be eating my words. I hope I'm not:

 

BNightengale Bob Nightengale

#STLCARDS Pujols now has three teams that are offering 10-year contracts in excess of $200 million: STL, MIAMI, AND unidentified team

 

EDIT: The Nationals maybe?

 

I'd guess Texas if I had to.

 

Yea that would be my second guess. I say the Nationals because they've been oddly quiet so far despite being hyped as big spenders heading in.

 

Really hope this isn't Hoystein. NO on 10 years, even if it is Pujols.

[XZero771679666304]

I may soon be eating my words. I hope I'm not:

 

BNightengale Bob Nightengale

#STLCARDS Pujols now has three teams that are offering 10-year contracts in excess of $200 million: STL, MIAMI, AND unidentified team

 

EDIT: The Nationals maybe?

 

I'd guess Texas if I had to.

 

Yea that would be my second guess. I say the Nationals because they've been oddly quiet so far despite being hyped as big spenders heading in.

 

Really hope this isn't Hoystein. NO on 10 years, even if it is Pujols.

 

I can't imagine it's the Cubs, for reasons I've stated.

[ctcf]

Gonna be awesome when Heyman tweets this in half an hour.

[Rob]

Here's a fun game. I'm going to list the five best pre free agency seasons by fWAR of three different players (in descending order). One is Prince Fielder. The other two are Alfonso Soriano and Jayson Werth.

 

Player A: 5.7, 5.3, 5.0, 2.3, 2.1

Player B: 5.3, 5.2, 5.0, 3.3, 2.4

Player C: 6.4, 5.5, 5.1, 3.4, 1.7

 

 

A - Soriano, B - Werth, C - Fielder

 

 

Oh, and for the record...

 

Pujols: 10.1, 8.5, 8.4, 8.2, 7.7 (that's just his first six seasons. If we included the time covered by his extension he'd be 10.1, 9.1, 9.0, 8.5, 8.4)

 

Pujols is a true, honest to goodness superstar of the highest caliber.

 

Fielder is Mo Vaughn or Travis Hafner.

 

If we do not manage to bring in Pujols (and it's increasingly likely we wont), I'm honestly split as to whether the Cubs should be looking at Fielder at all. The cost is astronomical, the risk is pretty high and it's not like his production is MVP caliber to begin with.

[ctcf]

I may soon be eating my words. I hope I'm not:

 

BNightengale Bob Nightengale

#STLCARDS Pujols now has three teams that are offering 10-year contracts in excess of $200 million: STL, MIAMI, AND unidentified team

 

EDIT: The Nationals maybe?

 

I'd guess Texas if I had to.

 

Yea that would be my second guess. I say the Nationals because they've been oddly quiet so far despite being hyped as big spenders heading in.

 

Really hope this isn't Hoystein. NO on 10 years, even if it is Pujols.

 

I can't imagine it's the Cubs, for reasons I've stated.

 

Me either. Still, they're so damn quiet about everything, one never knows. It could be them doing this just to [expletive] with people.

[XZero771679666304]

Here's a fun game. I'm going to list the five best pre free agency seasons by fWAR of three different players (in descending order). One is Prince Fielder. The other two are Alfonso Soriano and Jayson Werth.

 

Player A: 5.7, 5.3, 5.0, 2.3, 2.1

Player B: 5.3, 5.2, 5.0, 3.3, 2.4

Player C: 6.4, 5.5, 5.1, 3.4, 1.7

 

 

A - Soriano, B - Werth, C - Fielder

 

 

Oh, and for the record...

 

Pujols: 10.1, 8.5, 8.4, 8.2, 7.7 (that's just his first six seasons. If we included the time covered by his extension he'd be 10.1, 9.1, 9.0, 8.5, 8.4)

 

Pujols is a true, honest to goodness superstar of the highest caliber.

 

Fielder is Mo Vaughn or Travis Hafner.

 

If we do not manage to bring in Pujols (and it's increasingly likely we wont), I'm honestly split as to whether the Cubs should be looking at Fielder at all. The cost is astronomical, the risk is pretty high and it's not like his production is MVP caliber to begin with.

 

No one is disputing what Albert has done, but what he will do. He's a player in decline and this is precisely the sort of thing Theo was talking about when he referenced not paying for past performance.

[ctcf]

BleacherNation Brett Taylor

Not Cubs. Prob not real. RT @BNightengale Pujols now has 3 10-year contract offers in excess of $200M: STL, MIAMI, AND unidentified team

 

Bleacher Nation is skeptical

[Guest]

We aren't the mystery team because we're named in the article as having made an offer for fewer years than STL, MIA, and MYS.

[Guest]

Why were people ok with 5/150 but not ~200/10?

 

Even if its220 is five more years for another 70 all that scary?

[Rob]

Here's a fun game. I'm going to list the five best pre free agency seasons by fWAR of three different players (in descending order). One is Prince Fielder. The other two are Alfonso Soriano and Jayson Werth.

 

Player A: 5.7, 5.3, 5.0, 2.3, 2.1

Player B: 5.3, 5.2, 5.0, 3.3, 2.4

Player C: 6.4, 5.5, 5.1, 3.4, 1.7

 

 

A - Soriano, B - Werth, C - Fielder

 

 

Oh, and for the record...

 

Pujols: 10.1, 8.5, 8.4, 8.2, 7.7 (that's just his first six seasons. If we included the time covered by his extension he'd be 10.1, 9.1, 9.0, 8.5, 8.4)

 

Pujols is a true, honest to goodness superstar of the highest caliber.

 

Fielder is Mo Vaughn or Travis Hafner.

 

If we do not manage to bring in Pujols (and it's increasingly likely we wont), I'm honestly split as to whether the Cubs should be looking at Fielder at all. The cost is astronomical, the risk is pretty high and it's not like his production is MVP caliber to begin with.

 

No one is disputing what Albert has done, but what he will do. He's a player in decline and this is precisely the sort of thing Theo was talking about when he referenced not paying for past performance.

 

No, I get that. Pujols is certainly not without risk either. He's older to begin with and not everybody buys his real age. He's always fought through injury issues but might not be able to quite as well as time goes on, and he just came off the worst season of his career. (5.5 WAR, the horror) I understand if the Cubs decide to pass on Pujols or if they indeed decide to go higher AAV over fewer years. I trust the Cubs will make the right decision on that one.

 

What I'm saying is that at the pricetag he's likely to garner, I do not want Prince Fielder to be the Cubs consolation prize.