Trade Z to Yanks..NOW!

[Tracer Bullet]

Why is Garza more dependable than Z again?

He's younger, healthier and not crazy?

 

but z is much better.

 

this whole trade z movememnet upsets me greatly. he's never gone near 100 in terms of era+.

I don't know how you can argue that Z is better. Garza just put up 3 consecutive WHIPS of roughly 1.25 in the AL East; Zambrano hasn't done that in 5 years in the NL Central.

 

WHIP? Come on.

[XZero771679666304]

Why is Garza more dependable than Z again?

He's younger, healthier and not crazy?

 

but z is much better.

 

this whole trade z movememnet upsets me greatly. he's never gone near 100 in terms of era+.

I don't know how you can argue that Z is better. Garza just put up 3 consecutive WHIPS of roughly 1.25 in the AL East; Zambrano hasn't done that in 5 years in the NL Central.

 

WHIP? Come on.

 

 

WHIP isn't a bad stat. Not the best, but not bad.

 

 

But we're missing the bigger issue here. Trading Z would subtract from Hendry's growing stockpile of Carlos-es.

[SCCubbieFAN]

How about Z and Soto for Montero + (fill in the blank)? would any of you do this trade? would the Yanks do this trade?

[Rob]

Why is Garza more dependable than Z again?

He's younger, healthier and not crazy?

 

Can't argue much with the first two, but he's definitely got some of the same personality concerns as Z.

[davearm2]

Why is Garza more dependable than Z again?

He's younger, healthier and not crazy?

 

Can't argue much with the first two, but he's definitely got some of the same personality concerns as Z.

Agreed. Those that think swapping Zambrano for Garza would add emotional stability or whatever are probably mistaken.

[Guest]

How about Z and Soto for Montero + (fill in the blank)? would any of you do this trade? would the Yanks do this trade?

 

Cano? Teixeira? Both?

 

Z and Soto are both really good at baseball. Z makes a little too much for what he provides, and Soto is one of the most valuable assets in the game.

[davearm2]

I think there's quite a bit of wishful thinking going on in this thread. Zambrano's contract is still an albatross, even despite a strong end to 2010. He wouldn't get $18m a year as a free agent. Something like John Lackey's ~$15M a year would be about the ceiling IMO.

 

So if teams wouldn't sign him to his current contract, then they sure as heck aren't going to assume it in a trade, PLUS give up good prospects.

[davearm2]

How about Z and Soto for Montero + (fill in the blank)? would any of you do this trade? would the Yanks do this trade?

 

Cano? Teixeira? Both?

 

Z and Soto are both really good at baseball. Z makes a little too much for what he provides, and Soto is one of the most valuable assets in the game.

To be fair, Montero is arguably also one of the most valuable assets in the game.

[Guest]

How about Z and Soto for Montero + (fill in the blank)? would any of you do this trade? would the Yanks do this trade?

 

Cano? Teixeira? Both?

 

Z and Soto are both really good at baseball. Z makes a little too much for what he provides, and Soto is one of the most valuable assets in the game.

To be fair, Montero is arguably also one of the most valuable assets in the game.

 

If Montero pans out, he'll be Soto.

[Tracer Bullet]

With Wood coming on board, we need to clear some $ off the books. Soto should be able to net us a couple A-ball pitching prospects, shouldn't he?

[KingCubsFan]

Why is Garza more dependable than Z again?

He's younger, healthier and not crazy?

 

Can't argue much with the first two, but he's definitely got some of the same personality concerns as Z.

Agreed. Those that think swapping Zambrano for Garza would add emotional stability or whatever are probably mistaken.

I don't know much about him, but I've never heard him missing time during the season due to emotional outbursts.

[davearm2]

How about Z and Soto for Montero + (fill in the blank)? would any of you do this trade? would the Yanks do this trade?

 

Cano? Teixeira? Both?

 

Z and Soto are both really good at baseball. Z makes a little too much for what he provides, and Soto is one of the most valuable assets in the game.

To be fair, Montero is arguably also one of the most valuable assets in the game.

 

If Montero pans out, he'll be Soto.

Soto +3 additional cost-controlled years.

[KingCubsFan]

Why is Garza more dependable than Z again?

He's younger, healthier and not crazy?

 

but z is much better.

 

this whole trade z movememnet upsets me greatly. he's never gone near 100 in terms of era+.

I don't know how you can argue that Z is better. Garza just put up 3 consecutive WHIPS of roughly 1.25 in the AL East; Zambrano hasn't done that in 5 years in the NL Central.

 

WHIP? Come on.

It's not a perfect stat, but neither is FIP. Guys with consistently good WHIPS year after year tend to be pretty good pitchers.

[Tracer Bullet]

It's not a perfect stat, but neither is FIP. Guys with consistently good WHIPS year after year tend to be pretty good pitchers.

 

it's not only not perfect, i'd say it's far from perfect and maybe even misleading. WHIP would suggest that Garza was better in '10 than '09. I guess saying he put up a WHIP of 1.25 in the ALE for the last 3 years is nice. But there are so many better stats to point to.

[Backtobanks]

How about Z and Soto for Montero + (fill in the blank)? would any of you do this trade? would the Yanks do this trade?

 

Cano? Teixeira? Both?

 

Z and Soto are both really good at baseball. Z makes a little too much for what he provides, and Soto is one of the most valuable assets in the game.

To be fair, Montero is arguably also one of the most valuable assets in the game.

 

If Montero pans out, he'll be Soto.

Soto +3 additional cost-controlled years.

 

Assuming he pans out. I think the odds are pretty good that he will be a star, but Soto has proven himself in the ML while a lot of "cant-miss" prospects flame out.

[SouthSideRyan]

Why is Garza more dependable than Z again?

He's younger, healthier and not crazy?

 

Can't argue much with the first two, but he's definitely got some of the same personality concerns as Z.

Agreed. Those that think swapping Zambrano for Garza would add emotional stability or whatever are probably mistaken.

I don't know much about him, but I've never heard him missing time during the season due to emotional outbursts.

 

Probably cause the Rays aren't run by a bunch of spazzes

[Magnetic Curses]

Why is Garza more dependable than Z again?

He's younger, healthier and not crazy?

 

but z is much better.

 

this whole trade z movememnet upsets me greatly. he's never gone near 100 in terms of era+.

I don't know how you can argue that Z is better. Garza just put up 3 consecutive WHIPS of roughly 1.25 in the AL East; Zambrano hasn't done that in 5 years in the NL Central.

 

how can i argue? whip, really?

 

all that means is that zambrano walks more hitters. the success of each pitcher in not giving up actual runs, along with slga would point to the fact that garza gets hit harder.

 

holy crap, in 2006 zambrano posted a 1.15 whip and walked 115 hitters. that's pretty impressive. as far as last season goes, teams ops'd .678 against him, and slugged .333. he also only posted a slga at .700 once in his career, and that was .701. garza was at .723 last year.

 

not to mention the era+ numbers in which zambrano is consistently superior. so, yeah, zambrano is pretty clearly a better pitcher.

[KingCubsFan]

Why is Garza more dependable than Z again?

He's younger, healthier and not crazy?

 

but z is much better.

 

this whole trade z movememnet upsets me greatly. he's never gone near 100 in terms of era+.

I don't know how you can argue that Z is better. Garza just put up 3 consecutive WHIPS of roughly 1.25 in the AL East; Zambrano hasn't done that in 5 years in the NL Central.

 

how can i argue? whip, really?

 

all that means is that zambrano walks more hitters. the success of each pitcher in not giving up actual runs, along with slga would point to the fact that garza gets hit harder.

 

holy crap, in 2006 zambrano posted a 1.15 whip and walked 115 hitters. that's pretty impressive. as far as last season goes, teams ops'd .678 against him, and slugged .333. he also only posted a slga at .700 once in his career, and that was .701. garza was at .723 last year.

 

not to mention the era+ numbers in which zambrano is consistently superior. so, yeah, zambrano is pretty clearly a better pitcher.

All that means is that Garza walks less hitters but gives up more homeruns. They both have their flaws, but they're probably about equal at this stage in their careers.

[Magnetic Curses]

All that means is that Garza walks less hitters but gives up more homeruns. They both have their flaws, but they're probably about equal at this stage in their careers.

 

home runs and other extra-base hits are considerably more damaging than walks, being worth more bases and generally being run-producing.

 

garza has youth and recent durability over zambrano and that's about it. but both are young.

[champaignchris]

I'm not adverse to trading Z, but I think the Cubs need to get a ton for him. He doesn't turn 30 until midway through this season. His worse ERA+ of his career as a regular player is 111. He gets you innings as long as you don't do anything stupid like put him in the bullpen or force him to take anger management classes. He walks too many guys, but otherwise his measurables are in the elite or near-elite range. He's slightly overpaid, but his contract is nowhere near the albatross some make it out to be.

 

The guy can still pitch and pitch quite well. And most importantly, other than maybe Zach Greinke, a team like the Yankees or Angels will not find a better available option.

[daske17]

I'm not adverse to trading Z, but I think the Cubs need to get a ton for him. He doesn't turn 30 until midway through this season. His worse ERA+ of his career as a regular player is 111. He gets you innings as long as you don't do anything stupid like put him in the bullpen or force him to take anger management classes. He walks too many guys, but otherwise his measurables are in the elite or near-elite range. He's slightly overpaid, but his contract is nowhere near the albatross some make it out to be.

 

The guy can still pitch and pitch quite well. And most importantly, other than maybe Zach Greinke, a team like the Yankees or Angels will not find a better available option.

 

True on the contract. If he hit the free market this off-season, he'd still probably get a Lackey-sized deal.

[UK1679666180]

Anytime you can trade a likely middle of the rotation starter based on stuff, production, and age who is making #1 starter money, they should pursue it regardless of what is brought back in return (assuming the Cubs absorb none/very of his contract).

[Clem Fandango]

How about Z and Soto for Montero + (fill in the blank)? would any of you do this trade? would the Yanks do this trade?

 

Cano? Teixeira? Both?

 

Z and Soto are both really good at baseball. Z makes a little too much for what he provides, and Soto is one of the most valuable assets in the game.

To be fair, Montero is arguably also one of the most valuable assets in the game.

 

If Montero pans out, he'll be Soto.

 

If Montero pans out and fulfills his promise, Montero's average year will probably be the same as whatever Soto can accomplish at his peak. And he'll be in his early 20's doing it instead of his late 20's.

[dew1679666265]

If Montero pans out and fulfills his promise, Montero's average year will probably be the same as whatever Soto can accomplish at his peak. And he'll be in his early 20's doing it instead of his late 20's.

 

Montero's average year will be an .890 OPS, .385 wOBA and 3.5 WAR? That'd be better than Mauer.

[Clem Fandango]

If Montero pans out and fulfills his promise, Montero's average year will probably be the same as whatever Soto can accomplish at his peak. And he'll be in his early 20's doing it instead of his late 20's.

 

Montero's average year will be an .890 OPS, .385 wOBA and 3.5 WAR? That'd be better than Mauer.

 

I was speaking more in terms of basic production numbers, not rates, but even when Jason Heyward was the #1 prospect in baseball, scouts and analysts were calling Montero arguably the best pure hitter in the minor leagues. The guy is going to be an offensive powerhouse. His defense might be for [expletive], but his offense is going to be special. He put up an .870 OPS as a catcher in AAA at the age of 20 and that was a down year for him. The guy is going to be great.