College Football - Week 4 (Sept. 25th)

[jersey cubs fan]

i don't recall michigan fans being all that upset when their team was awful RichRod's first year

 

Really? I mean I only know a couple of them, but they were pretty upset.

[dew1679666265]

i don't recall michigan fans being all that upset when their team was awful RichRod's first year

 

Really? I mean I only know a couple of them, but they were pretty upset.

 

Weren't there a number of people calling for his head after the first season? Or was that after his second?

[jersey cubs fan]

i don't recall michigan fans being all that upset when their team was awful RichRod's first year

 

Really? I mean I only know a couple of them, but they were pretty upset.

 

Weren't there a number of people calling for his head after the first season? Or was that after his second?

 

I definitely heard calls for his head after year 1, don't quite recall how loud they were.

[Tracer Bullet]

yeah, notre dame has been fairly lousy lately (only 3 BCS bowls in the last 10 years, yuck!) penn state was bad (and legitimately bad, not getting beat in a bcs bowl "bad") from most of 2000 to 2004. alabama sucked for a little while, so did miami, michigan sucked the last two years. these things happen. i don't recall michigan fans being all that upset when their team was awful RichRod's first year - they pretty much expected it. yet a lot of notre dame fans seemed to expect that they'd hit the ground running with a new coach, new starting qb and pretty average talent. there is no mandate that notre dame will be good every year.

 

ok - first of all - UM fans were livid in RichRod's first year. If you don't think so, teleport yourself back to Michigan that year. It was unbearable. Lots of teams' fans get pissed when their unrealistic expectations aren't met.

 

No one (except maybe Andy) is saying there's a mandate that ND be good every year. They've been treading water (or worse) since Lou left. Lots of people are frustrated.

 

ND doesn't have average talent, which is the most frustrating part. They have youth and inexperience at some very key positions (QB and both OTs) and a couple key injuries (Crist in the UM game and the only FS on the team missed UM and MSU). But a large part of the frustration is the wealth of talent (based solely on recruiting star numbers, which is all casual fans really have to go on, ND is in the #2-5 mix with Florida and Texas, right behind the cheating juggernaut that is Southern Cal). Weis was not a player developer, outside QBs. He just didn't emphasize it enough and it might have been his biggest drawback. But he recruited really well.

[Tracer Bullet]

i don't recall michigan fans being all that upset when their team was awful RichRod's first year

 

Really? I mean I only know a couple of them, but they were pretty upset.

 

Weren't there a number of people calling for his head after the first season? Or was that after his second?

 

I definitely heard calls for his head after year 1, don't quite recall how loud they were.

 

they were deafening up here. He wasn't a "Michigan Man" which put him outside of Bo's graces and thus behind the 8-ball with most of their fans. Some of the more sane fans realized that after the team got rejected by just about everyone, Rodriguez was a pretty big "name" to take the gig. But even those fans were livid after that year. The rules violations and mass departures from the team didn't help.

[Andy]

You guys are completely missing the point I was making. My point is that if ND is going to be trashed by fans and media outlets as being so overrated and all this jazz week in and week out, then I wish every team that beats them wasn't instantly jacked up the rankings and their star players thrown into the Heisman conversation. Those are the kind of things that should happen when you beat a good team, and Notre Dame quite clearly is a notch or three below good at the moment.

[Guest]

We're 4 weeks into the season. Beating a BCS conference school(which Notre Dame is a proxy of, scheduling wise) and remaining undefeated is impressive enough to get you in or near the rankings regardless of that school's strength. If they manage to lose to BC I don't think you'll see the Eagles crack the Top 25.

 

As for the Heisman stuff, I'm not sure why you're upset. A highly touted QB put up 500 yards on a team that has BCS athletes 2 weeks into the season, of course he's going to get mentioned. Stanford killed their 3rd straight BCS school and Luck was a Heisman contender before the season, of course he's going to get Heisman love after the September they had.

[SpongeWorthy]

yeah, notre dame has been fairly lousy lately (only 3 BCS bowls in the last 10 years, yuck!) penn state was bad (and legitimately bad, not getting beat in a bcs bowl "bad") from most of 2000 to 2004. alabama sucked for a little while, so did miami, michigan sucked the last two years. these things happen. i don't recall michigan fans being all that upset when their team was awful RichRod's first year - they pretty much expected it. yet a lot of notre dame fans seemed to expect that they'd hit the ground running with a new coach, new starting qb and pretty average talent. there is no mandate that notre dame will be good every year.

 

ok - first of all - UM fans were livid in RichRod's first year. If you don't think so, teleport yourself back to Michigan that year. It was unbearable. Lots of teams' fans get pissed when their unrealistic expectations aren't met.

 

No one (except maybe Andy) is saying there's a mandate that ND be good every year. They've been treading water (or worse) since Lou left. Lots of people are frustrated.

 

ND doesn't have average talent, which is the most frustrating part. They have youth and inexperience at some very key positions (QB and both OTs) and a couple key injuries (Crist in the UM game and the only FS on the team missed UM and MSU). But a large part of the frustration is the wealth of talent (based solely on recruiting star numbers, which is all casual fans really have to go on, ND is in the #2-5 mix with Florida and Texas, right behind the cheating juggernaut that is Southern Cal). Weis was not a player developer, outside QBs. He just didn't emphasize it enough and it might have been his biggest drawback. But he recruited really well.

 

I don't really think ND is in that mix. Maybe at the glamor positions.

 

If you can look at an Alabama/LSU/Ohio State/Oklahoma game and then at a ND game and tell me the talent level is fairly equal...I don't know what to tell you (not you, you, the casual ND fan or anyone else who would think that).

[SpongeWorthy]

You guys are completely missing the point I was making. My point is that if ND is going to be trashed by fans and media outlets as being so overrated and all this jazz week in and week out, then I wish every team that beats them wasn't instantly jacked up the rankings and their star players thrown into the Heisman conversation. Those are the kind of things that should happen when you beat a good team, and Notre Dame quite clearly is a notch or three below good at the moment.

 

It has as much to do with Stanford thrashing UCLA who just throttled Texas on the road as it does with Stanford pounding ND.

 

I think Stanford is really good and clearly better than the 4 teams you mentioned them jumping.

[Andy]

We're 4 weeks into the season. Beating a BCS conference school(which Notre Dame is a proxy of, scheduling wise) and remaining undefeated is impressive enough to get you in or near the rankings regardless of that school's strength. If they manage to lose to BC I don't think you'll see the Eagles crack the Top 25.

 

As for the Heisman stuff, I'm not sure why you're upset. A highly touted QB put up 500 yards on a team that has BCS athletes 2 weeks into the season, of course he's going to get mentioned. Stanford killed their 3rd straight BCS school and Luck was a Heisman contender before the season, of course he's going to get Heisman love after the September they had.

It's understandable to a point, but I'm just tired of being the catalyst of helping other teams while still being called irrelevant every week. For God's sake, we've won 3 Heismans for USC in the last decade and it was because of shredding our defense that Troy Smith got thrust to the top of the leaderboard for the Heisman that he eventually won the next year.

 

Kelly is frustrating me too. He gave away 3 points against Michigan at the end of the half and then gave away 3 more against Stanford at the end of the half. The defense is marginally improved but still basically can't stop anybody. Where's the guy that wins everywhere he goes regardless of system? ND's schedule isn't that much better than the slate he romped through at Cincinnati last year. Like GR said, ND is young in all the wrong places and it's kicking them in the teeth consistently.

[Andy]

yeah, notre dame has been fairly lousy lately (only 3 BCS bowls in the last 10 years, yuck!) penn state was bad (and legitimately bad, not getting beat in a bcs bowl "bad") from most of 2000 to 2004. alabama sucked for a little while, so did miami, michigan sucked the last two years. these things happen. i don't recall michigan fans being all that upset when their team was awful RichRod's first year - they pretty much expected it. yet a lot of notre dame fans seemed to expect that they'd hit the ground running with a new coach, new starting qb and pretty average talent. there is no mandate that notre dame will be good every year.

 

ok - first of all - UM fans were livid in RichRod's first year. If you don't think so, teleport yourself back to Michigan that year. It was unbearable. Lots of teams' fans get pissed when their unrealistic expectations aren't met.

 

No one (except maybe Andy) is saying there's a mandate that ND be good every year. They've been treading water (or worse) since Lou left. Lots of people are frustrated.

 

ND doesn't have average talent, which is the most frustrating part. They have youth and inexperience at some very key positions (QB and both OTs) and a couple key injuries (Crist in the UM game and the only FS on the team missed UM and MSU). But a large part of the frustration is the wealth of talent (based solely on recruiting star numbers, which is all casual fans really have to go on, ND is in the #2-5 mix with Florida and Texas, right behind the cheating juggernaut that is Southern Cal). Weis was not a player developer, outside QBs. He just didn't emphasize it enough and it might have been his biggest drawback. But he recruited really well.

 

I don't really think ND is in that mix. Maybe at the glamor positions.

 

If you can look at an Alabama/LSU/Ohio State/Oklahoma game and then at a ND game and tell me the talent level is fairly equal...I don't know what to tell you (not you, you, the casual ND fan or anyone else who would think that).

Yeah, I watch Alabama run the ball in dominant fashion week after week and I'm not sure how in the world the talent ND is getting is in the same universe with them. I suppose it's possible that ND will do better with Kelly's players in the system, but it doesn't seem like it's there right now.

[SpongeWorthy]

It's easy to be faux outraged when you're consistently overstating ND's importance to another teams resume. Christ, how many people were even watching Stanford dismantle ND with all the other games that were going on? They've accumulated a decent a body of work. You're not even acknowledging that UCLA killed Texas a couple weeks after being dominated by Stanford...it's an anti-ND plot!

 

Next Andy will be claiming that it's because of Notre Dame that Luck goes top 5 in the draft next year.

 

(also ND was good in 2002 and 2005 when they supposedly won Palmer and Bush their Heismans, not irrelevant)

[Tracer Bullet]

yeah, notre dame has been fairly lousy lately (only 3 BCS bowls in the last 10 years, yuck!) penn state was bad (and legitimately bad, not getting beat in a bcs bowl "bad") from most of 2000 to 2004. alabama sucked for a little while, so did miami, michigan sucked the last two years. these things happen. i don't recall michigan fans being all that upset when their team was awful RichRod's first year - they pretty much expected it. yet a lot of notre dame fans seemed to expect that they'd hit the ground running with a new coach, new starting qb and pretty average talent. there is no mandate that notre dame will be good every year.

 

ok - first of all - UM fans were livid in RichRod's first year. If you don't think so, teleport yourself back to Michigan that year. It was unbearable. Lots of teams' fans get pissed when their unrealistic expectations aren't met.

 

No one (except maybe Andy) is saying there's a mandate that ND be good every year. They've been treading water (or worse) since Lou left. Lots of people are frustrated.

 

ND doesn't have average talent, which is the most frustrating part. They have youth and inexperience at some very key positions (QB and both OTs) and a couple key injuries (Crist in the UM game and the only FS on the team missed UM and MSU). But a large part of the frustration is the wealth of talent (based solely on recruiting star numbers, which is all casual fans really have to go on, ND is in the #2-5 mix with Florida and Texas, right behind the cheating juggernaut that is Southern Cal). Weis was not a player developer, outside QBs. He just didn't emphasize it enough and it might have been his biggest drawback. But he recruited really well.

 

I don't really think ND is in that mix. Maybe at the glamor positions.

 

If you can look at an Alabama/LSU/Ohio State/Oklahoma game and then at a ND game and tell me the talent level is fairly equal...I don't know what to tell you (not you, you, the casual ND fan or anyone else who would think that).

 

All I can tell you is to look at the recruiting rankings, esp for players still on the rosters (unlike Alabama, where 100 kids get offers for 25 spots...feels like a law firm). Here's a WSJ article that lists ND as 3rd behind USC and Florida: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703447004575449721827527374.html?mod=WSJ_LifeStyle_Sports_RightTopCarousel_1.

 

The talent hasn't translated into great performance, but the raw talent is there. If only we had a molder of men. Oh wait, we tried that and it failed miserably.

[Tracer Bullet]

We're 4 weeks into the season. Beating a BCS conference school(which Notre Dame is a proxy of, scheduling wise) and remaining undefeated is impressive enough to get you in or near the rankings regardless of that school's strength. If they manage to lose to BC I don't think you'll see the Eagles crack the Top 25.

 

As for the Heisman stuff, I'm not sure why you're upset. A highly touted QB put up 500 yards on a team that has BCS athletes 2 weeks into the season, of course he's going to get mentioned. Stanford killed their 3rd straight BCS school and Luck was a Heisman contender before the season, of course he's going to get Heisman love after the September they had.

It's understandable to a point, but I'm just tired of being the catalyst of helping other teams while still being called irrelevant every week. For God's sake, we've won 3 Heismans for USC in the last decade and it was because of shredding our defense that Troy Smith got thrust to the top of the leaderboard for the Heisman that he eventually won the next year.

 

Kelly is frustrating me too. He gave away 3 points against Michigan at the end of the half and then gave away 3 more against Stanford at the end of the half. The defense is marginally improved but still basically can't stop anybody. Where's the guy that wins everywhere he goes regardless of system? ND's schedule isn't that much better than the slate he romped through at Cincinnati last year. Like GR said, ND is young in all the wrong places and it's kicking them in the teeth consistently.

 

I'm not sure if you frustrate me or the ND haters more. The defense is much improved. The CBs don't look lost on every play. They're actually staying on guys, contesting throws, and making picks. Te'o is really good and playing under control, unlike the first 2 weeks. Calabrese has been a solid run stopper at the other ILB spot. They need Fleming and whoever plays the other OLB to start making plays and Slaughter to never get hurt again b/c Smith and Motta can't be your only 2 safeties. Those safety misses in recruiting the last few years are really starting to hurt - maybe more than the DL misses.

 

Kelly wasn't going to show up and just win from day 1. And if you don't think playing 4 BCS teams, 3 of which are ranked, is a harder schedule than anyone else in the country has played so far, you are certifiable. How many teams in the country have played 4 BCS teams, let alone 3 undefeated BCS teams? ND's schedule will get easier: BC sucks, Tulsa sucks, W. Michigan sucks. But, per usual, they start harder than most b/c they play BCS teams from the start and don't schedule 2-3 cupcakes before conference play, like most BCS schools.

[Guest]

I know star ratings have a pretty good correlation with success, but I can't help but wonder if Notre Dame being that high in the recruiting rankings is a chicken/egg thing of guys with Notre Dame offers being rated very highly.

[Flames24Rulz]

I know star ratings have a pretty good correlation with success, but I can't help but wonder if Notre Dame being that high in the recruiting rankings is a chicken/egg thing of guys with Notre Dame offers being rated very highly.

 

I've always compared ND football recruits to Duke basketball recruits. No matter who they get, their rankings will always be high just because it's the name of the school.

 

Weis really left the program bare. I don't see how any of this is Kelly's fault. For God's sake, they lost to three teams that are better than them. Once the coach gets his players into that system, I think things will pick up for them. Kelly's track record has proven that he's a good coach. I wouldn't let three losses cloud my vision in terms of that.

[SpongeWorthy]

yeah, notre dame has been fairly lousy lately (only 3 BCS bowls in the last 10 years, yuck!) penn state was bad (and legitimately bad, not getting beat in a bcs bowl "bad") from most of 2000 to 2004. alabama sucked for a little while, so did miami, michigan sucked the last two years. these things happen. i don't recall michigan fans being all that upset when their team was awful RichRod's first year - they pretty much expected it. yet a lot of notre dame fans seemed to expect that they'd hit the ground running with a new coach, new starting qb and pretty average talent. there is no mandate that notre dame will be good every year.

 

ok - first of all - UM fans were livid in RichRod's first year. If you don't think so, teleport yourself back to Michigan that year. It was unbearable. Lots of teams' fans get pissed when their unrealistic expectations aren't met.

 

No one (except maybe Andy) is saying there's a mandate that ND be good every year. They've been treading water (or worse) since Lou left. Lots of people are frustrated.

 

ND doesn't have average talent, which is the most frustrating part. They have youth and inexperience at some very key positions (QB and both OTs) and a couple key injuries (Crist in the UM game and the only FS on the team missed UM and MSU). But a large part of the frustration is the wealth of talent (based solely on recruiting star numbers, which is all casual fans really have to go on, ND is in the #2-5 mix with Florida and Texas, right behind the cheating juggernaut that is Southern Cal). Weis was not a player developer, outside QBs. He just didn't emphasize it enough and it might have been his biggest drawback. But he recruited really well.

 

I don't really think ND is in that mix. Maybe at the glamor positions.

 

If you can look at an Alabama/LSU/Ohio State/Oklahoma game and then at a ND game and tell me the talent level is fairly equal...I don't know what to tell you (not you, you, the casual ND fan or anyone else who would think that).

 

All I can tell you is to look at the recruiting rankings, esp for players still on the rosters (unlike Alabama, where 100 kids get offers for 25 spots...feels like a law firm). Here's a WSJ article that lists ND as 3rd behind USC and Florida: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703447004575449721827527374.html?mod=WSJ_LifeStyle_Sports_RightTopCarousel_1.

 

The talent hasn't translated into great performance, but the raw talent is there. If only we had a molder of men. Oh wait, we tried that and it failed miserably.

 

I haven't seen a player in ND's back 7 on defense in years who really pops off the screen athletically, besides Manti and maybe Zbikowski (who was a Willingham recruit, IIRC). Bama and Ohio State are littered with those type of guys. Is it ALL player development? It's a huge part of it but I'm skeptical.

 

I don't put much stock in those star ratings. USC hasn't played a complete game since the Rose Bowl game against Penn State and there's a pretty big gap between #1 and #2 by that metric.

[Tracer Bullet]

I know star ratings have a pretty good correlation with success, but I can't help but wonder if Notre Dame being that high in the recruiting rankings is a chicken/egg thing of guys with Notre Dame offers being rated very highly.

 

stop or you're going to give andy more ammo. ND recruits don't get a boost in rankings TT. I know conventional wisdom is that they do and that might have been true until Lou left town, but it is no longer. Crist, Floyd, Rudolph, Te'o, Johnson etc. These aren't ND-inflated players. These are guys that picked ND over USC, Florida, Ohio State. 2, 6, 1, 1, 2. Those are the position rankings, per rivals, of those 5 players. There isn't a starter on ND's defense that doesn't have an offer from USC, Florida, Alabama, Texas, or Oklahoma.

[Tracer Bullet]

Weis really left the program bare.

 

you must be joking.

[Tracer Bullet]

I haven't seen a player in ND's back 7 on defense in years who really pops off the screen athletically, besides Manti and maybe Zbikowski (who was a Willingham recruit, IIRC). Bama and Ohio State are littered with those type of guys. Is it ALL player development? It's a huge part of it but I'm skeptical.

 

I don't put much stock in those star ratings. USC hasn't played a complete game since the Rose Bowl game against Penn State and there's a pretty big gap between #1 and #2 by that metric.

 

ND plays a 3-4. Which are the back 7?

 

A handful of ND DBs, including 3 safeties, are on NFL rosters. And Manti will be. And Gary Gray has been incredible this year (admittedly, for the first time in his 4 years, though his leg injury messed him up).

 

I don't know how much is development, how much is different systems, etc. The seniors, for example, have played the 4-3, 3-4, 4-3, 3-4 in their 4 years. And last year was Tenuta's 4-3, which is a different animal and there was a lot of in-fighting between Tenuta and Brown b/c their systems were opposite ends of the spectrum. Some people close to the team are saying how happy the DBs are to just be playing in a system where all the coaches agree.

 

Yes, if you're just looking at the screen, ND's talent hasn't looked great at times. But I don't trust your eye for talent more than Rivals. Rivals says ND has as much talent on its roster as any team not named USC and maybe Florida. So if Kelly is really the great coach he's supposed to be, he'll turn that talent into wins. If not, some other guy will be in SB in 3-5 years. Hopefully Kelly leaves the cupboard as "bare" as Weis did.

[Wolverineman]

i don't recall michigan fans being all that upset when their team was awful RichRod's first year - they pretty much expected it.

 

Most smart fans weren't upset after year 1 of Rich Rod because they basically had no offense and a defense that couldn't handle being on the field for 45 minutes every Saturday. One returning starter on offense, and he was a freshman guard. There were a lot of dumb fans yelling and screaming "But we're Michigan, we shouldn't be this bad!" but ignoring that even if Bo was resurrected from the grave he probably couldn't have gotten more than 5-7 out of that team. The system transition made it a bit harder, but I suppose if you're going to make that drastic of a change, you might as well do it at a time that the team was going to be awful anyway.

 

Last year was a bit different, but most people were expecting a 7-5 season, so 5-7 isn't really that far from it. There is still a group of idiot fans that wanted him gone after that season, and they probably still want him gone just because he isn't Les Miles/Jim Harbaugh.

 

Basically, smart fans knew '08 was going to be awful, and while they weren't happy with '09 they aren't calling for Rodriguez's head.

[SpongeWorthy]

I haven't seen a player in ND's back 7 on defense in years who really pops off the screen athletically, besides Manti and maybe Zbikowski (who was a Willingham recruit, IIRC). Bama and Ohio State are littered with those type of guys. Is it ALL player development? It's a huge part of it but I'm skeptical.

 

I don't put much stock in those star ratings. USC hasn't played a complete game since the Rose Bowl game against Penn State and there's a pretty big gap between #1 and #2 by that metric.

 

ND plays a 3-4. Which are the back 7?

 

A handful of ND DBs, including 3 safeties, are on NFL rosters. And Manti will be. And Gary Gray has been incredible this year (admittedly, for the first time in his 4 years, though his leg injury messed him up).

 

I don't know how much is development, how much is different systems, etc. The seniors, for example, have played the 4-3, 3-4, 4-3, 3-4 in their 4 years. And last year was Tenuta's 4-3, which is a different animal and there was a lot of in-fighting between Tenuta and Brown b/c their systems were opposite ends of the spectrum. Some people close to the team are saying how happy the DBs are to just be playing in a system where all the coaches agree.

 

Yes, if you're just looking at the screen, ND's talent hasn't looked great at times. But I don't trust your eye for talent more than Rivals. Rivals says ND has as much talent on its roster as any team not named USC and maybe Florida. So if Kelly is really the great coach he's supposed to be, he'll turn that talent into wins. If not, some other guy will be in SB in 3-5 years. Hopefully Kelly leaves the cupboard as "bare" as Weis did.

 

The same guys who rate prospects for Rivals can also look at a Notre Dame game and see that their talent isn't of the same quality as other powerhouse programs. It's better than most but not that level. That's most simply reflected in the drafting of those very same players into the NFL.

 

And Weis didn't recruit Ndukwe or Zbikowski. Other than that, who has he put in the league on defense or along the offensive line? The top programs put guys into the league year after year. ND's only shown they can do that with skill players in the Weis era. Maybe it is development...and it probably mostly is, but I don't see the raw athleticism at linebacker, offensive line, defensive line, and especially in the secondary for the most part. Justin Tuck is the last guy I'd look at from Notre Dame and can immediately say, "ok yeah, that guys a freak." Manti's getting there.

[Tracer Bullet]

I haven't seen a player in ND's back 7 on defense in years who really pops off the screen athletically, besides Manti and maybe Zbikowski (who was a Willingham recruit, IIRC). Bama and Ohio State are littered with those type of guys. Is it ALL player development? It's a huge part of it but I'm skeptical.

 

I don't put much stock in those star ratings. USC hasn't played a complete game since the Rose Bowl game against Penn State and there's a pretty big gap between #1 and #2 by that metric.

 

ND plays a 3-4. Which are the back 7?

 

A handful of ND DBs, including 3 safeties, are on NFL rosters. And Manti will be. And Gary Gray has been incredible this year (admittedly, for the first time in his 4 years, though his leg injury messed him up).

 

I don't know how much is development, how much is different systems, etc. The seniors, for example, have played the 4-3, 3-4, 4-3, 3-4 in their 4 years. And last year was Tenuta's 4-3, which is a different animal and there was a lot of in-fighting between Tenuta and Brown b/c their systems were opposite ends of the spectrum. Some people close to the team are saying how happy the DBs are to just be playing in a system where all the coaches agree.

 

Yes, if you're just looking at the screen, ND's talent hasn't looked great at times. But I don't trust your eye for talent more than Rivals. Rivals says ND has as much talent on its roster as any team not named USC and maybe Florida. So if Kelly is really the great coach he's supposed to be, he'll turn that talent into wins. If not, some other guy will be in SB in 3-5 years. Hopefully Kelly leaves the cupboard as "bare" as Weis did.

 

The same guys who rate prospects for Rivals can also look at a Notre Dame game and see that their talent isn't of the same quality as other powerhouse programs. It's better than most but not that level. That's most simply reflected in the drafting of those very same players into the NFL.

 

And Weis didn't recruit Ndukwe or Zbikowski. Other than that, who has he put in the league on defense or along the offensive line? The top programs put guys into the league year after year. ND's only shown they can do that with skill players in the Weis era. Maybe it is development...and it probably mostly is, but I don't see the raw athleticism at linebacker, offensive line, defensive line, and especially in the secondary for the most part. Justin Tuck is the last guy I'd look at from Notre Dame and can immediately say, "ok yeah, that guys a freak." Manti's getting there.

 

Why does it matter if Weis recruited guys that are in the NFL now? You asked about recent defensive players that stood out and so I mentioned guys in the NFL. Why does it matter who recruited them? BTW - David Bruton is the other safety I was thinking of. He was a freak. And ND isn't putting 2-3 OL in the NFL every year, but they put 2 in last year (both Weis recruits) and about 1/year during Weis's tenure. They also had the issue of Willingham signing just 4 OL total during his 4+ years, so there was bound to be a little rut there. I think 3/4 made it to the NFL, so maybe Ty was just more about quality than quantity. They're young on the OL this year, with only 1 guy in his last year of eligibility (not sure Stewart will get drafted). 3 of the other 4 were highly touted, so we'll see if Kelly can coach em up.

 

It would be surprising to me if guys from Rivals rated HS players 4 or 5 stars and then saw them play for ND, usually 3 years later, and said "oh they suck, guess we were wrong!" rather than "huh, seems like a player development issue." ND isn't having trouble recruiting. Weis had a lot of trouble developing players. Hopefully Kelly turns that around.

 

Manti's there dude. He's so there.

[Andy]

And if you don't think playing 4 BCS teams, 3 of which are ranked, is a harder schedule than anyone else in the country has played so far, you are certifiable. How many teams in the country have played 4 BCS teams, let alone 3 undefeated BCS teams? ND's schedule will get easier: BC sucks, Tulsa sucks, W. Michigan sucks. But, per usual, they start harder than most b/c they play BCS teams from the start and don't schedule 2-3 cupcakes before conference play, like most BCS schools.

The best team Michigan and Michigan State have combined to beat so far besides Notre Dame is UConn, who got beat handily by Temple, so I'm not sure how good those teams are yet. I do know that both teams made some silly mistakes/coaching decisions against ND that kept them in it when they were struggling. Stanford's really good, clearly, but I hope you'll excuse me for not talking up Michigan and Michigan State too much yet.

[Andy]

Manti's there dude. He's so there.

GR may be sick of me at this point, but seriously, no one could be more right than he is on this. Te'o leads the nation in tackles on a defense where he's constantly being keyed on because he's by far the best player. He's a monster.

Edited September 27, 2010 by Andy