Carlos Zambrano's brouhaha and apology

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm not surprised at all at spending down across the board this year. I thought it was to be expected.

[davell]

I'm not surprised at all at spending down across the board this year. I thought it was to be expected.

 

Other than the fact that Ricketts has said he was expanding the player development and scouting budgets. That's the main thing that I'm worried about right now.

[Outshined_One]

I'm not surprised at all at spending down across the board this year. I thought it was to be expected.

 

Other than the fact that Ricketts has said he was expanding the player development and scouting budgets. That's the main thing that I'm worried about right now.

 

+1

 

Regardless, if the Ricketts family really does want to cut costs and slash the budget, trading Zambrano would definitely help, even if the Cubs pick up a good portion of his salary.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm not surprised at all at spending down across the board this year. I thought it was to be expected.

 

Other than the fact that Ricketts has said he was expanding the player development and scouting budgets. That's the main thing that I'm worried about right now.

 

Just because they didn't do it this year doesn't mean they never will. They have a huge initial investment they need to be able to move on from. It just seems really presumptuous for people to already be seriously worrying about their ownership this early in the game.

[davell]

I'm not surprised at all at spending down across the board this year. I thought it was to be expected.

 

Other than the fact that Ricketts has said he was expanding the player development and scouting budgets. That's the main thing that I'm worried about right now.

 

Just because they didn't do it this year doesn't mean they never will. They have a huge initial investment they need to be able to move on from. It just seems really presumptuous for people to already be seriously worrying about their ownership this early in the game.

 

Very true. I'm just your typical pessimistic Cub fan though, waiting to find the first thing to worry about. Hopefully you're right and this isn't an indication of future things to come.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm not surprised at all at spending down across the board this year. I thought it was to be expected.

 

Other than the fact that Ricketts has said he was expanding the player development and scouting budgets. That's the main thing that I'm worried about right now.

 

Just because they didn't do it this year doesn't mean they never will. They have a huge initial investment they need to be able to move on from. It just seems really presumptuous for people to already be seriously worrying about their ownership this early in the game.

 

Very true. I'm just your typical pessimistic Cub fan though, waiting to find the first thing to worry about. Hopefully you're right and this isn't an indication of future things to come.

 

Yeah, for all I know the Ricketts will end up being terrible owners, but for now I'm wiling to wait it out.

[Backtobanks]

If this does not cement the decision to get rid of both Lou and Jim, I will be very suspicious of the decision-making capabilities of the new ownership group.

 

I really don't see why Lou or Hendry should be fired over Z pitching a fit. He's been a very good pitcher for a few years now and, while he's been overpaid, his contract didn't look very bad at all when he was signed to it.

A player throwing a fit shouldn't be held against the manager or GM.

 

His contract is ridiculous for a pitcher that has #1 stuff, but the head of a middle reliever in A ball. Zambrano has been treated like a diva for years while underperforming. If you look at results, he hasn't been the "ace" of this staff for years. In fact, he's probably been somewhere between #3 and #5 in the rotation for awhile. He's a perfect example of what a player could've been.

[Andy]

The fact that Jim Hendry's fat worthless ass could sit up on that podium sneering about Zambrano, admit that he lied about the reason Z got moved to the pen (a move that absolutely was a match in the powder keg that was this mess) and act like the voice of reason in all this is yet another reason he needs to get the hell out of here.

 

If we can suspend our hothead pitcher indefinitely, I say we can suspend our incompetent GM who took the highest payroll this side of [expletive] Boston and New York and created an incompetent team of overpaid, undertalented, over-the-hill or not-ready-yet losers and suspend his ass indefinitely too.

[Andy]

And I like Derrek Lee but he's rapidly approaching Ryan Theriot level "casual fans like me for being nice to the press so I think I'm the spokesman for the team and everyone just ignore that I am sucking at baseball this year" annoyance. He's been Z's teammate for how long? If he was the patient wonderful guy he paints himself to be, maybe he'd have just let Z rant instead of reacting the way he did.

[Benchwarmer]

5 months in Afghanistan and I come home to this? My..my..if only you had listened to me on Dec. 21, 2009 when I told you to trade Zambrano:

 

Addition by subtraction. I would absolutely trade Z, but don't know if Hendry has the smarts or a plan to pull it off. I don't want poor contracts and some banjo-hitting second baseman back in return.

 

This is just our luck. Extra inning game on the west coast to tax the bullpen..fly back home for a day game against the Sox and then our highest paid pitcher goes one freakin' inning..taxing the bullpen again. What more does Tom Rickettes have to see..80 more games? Blowup this team and Lou and Hendry now!!!

[Little Slide Rooter]

Gorz will replace Z, and it would be nice if Cashner gets Lilly's spot when he is traded.

 

I agree with Gorz replacing Z. I don't know if Cashner, Jackson or Atkins will be next in line for a rotation spot, though. My guess would be they'd go with Jackson over Cashner (since Cashner is already seeing ML time) if they choose to go with one of the top guys. They could look at more of a filler guy to finish out the year, though, which would be Atkins, most likely.

 

If Atkins got Lillys spot, if hes traded, that would be very dissapointing and an awful decision, although that has been the theme of the year. Cashner, Jackson, Diamond, and even Samardjiza since moving to Iowas rotation have outpitched Atkins all year long. In fact, as much as Id prefer Cash, Jax, or Diamond, in a lost season, Shark might be the best choice for the simple fact that I dont know how much longer hes under team control and this could be our last chance to see what he could do in the rotation, maybe build some trade value before giving up on him.

 

As for Z, this must be the nail in Hendrys coffin. Hes given large contracts to probably the 2 biggest headcases in baseball. With 1, we were lucky enough to get something back for him. With Z, I dont know how lucky we'll be. A lot of contenders would love to have him in the rotation, though not at his price, but much like the end of te short Milton Bradley era, things were made way too public and any interested team knows they have the leverage. Ricketts is a business man, in in the business world, one of the rules is when your company is dealing with a crisis, you keep it as quiet as possible and let the public know on an as needed basis. This is the second time in 2 years something like this has happened. Your move Ricketts.

[Banedon]

People keep saying that Z is done as a Cub, but I don't see it. I don't see how you can trade that guy (who has a NTC), who isn't pitching like an ace, who has that kind of baggage, with that kind of salary. I just don't know how that happens.

[dew1679666265]

His contract is ridiculous for a pitcher that has #1 stuff, but the head of a middle reliever in A ball. Zambrano has been treated like a diva for years while underperforming. If you look at results, he hasn't been the "ace" of this staff for years. In fact, he's probably been somewhere between #3 and #5 in the rotation for awhile. He's a perfect example of what a player could've been.

 

I wasn't commenting on how the contract looked now. I commented that at the time the contract didn't look particularly bad. What has happened between late 2007 and now is irrelevant to that.

 

At the time, three of his past five years he had xFIPs in the 3.54 to 3.82 range and was only 26 years old. We knew he was ultra-fiery at the time, but his only problem to date had been punching out Barrett. He hasn't lived up to the contract since then, but that doesn't mean you retroactively say it looked bad at the time.

[dew1679666265]

If Atkins got Lillys spot, if hes traded, that would be very dissapointing and an awful decision, although that has been the theme of the year. Cashner, Jackson, Diamond, and even Samardjiza since moving to Iowas rotation have outpitched Atkins all year long. In fact, as much as Id prefer Cash, Jax, or Diamond, in a lost season, Shark might be the best choice for the simple fact that I dont know how much longer hes under team control and this could be our last chance to see what he could do in the rotation, maybe build some trade value before giving up on him.

 

My thinking with bringing up Atkins instead of Jackson is the idea that they might not want to promote Jackson for his first ML duty in a lost season with a poor offense that won't give sufficient run support. Also, if you bring up Atkins and get a couple of good months out of him, his trade value might go the way Kevin Hart's did.

 

Plus, you continue not to have the clock start on Jackson in that scenario. I'm not really advocating it, but it's a move I could see them making. And for the reasons I pointed out, I wouldn't necessarily be against it.

[USSoccer]

I bet 1 million internets that everyone in this thread pissing and moaning about Hendry giving Z the contract extension would have been absolutely up in arms had Hendry let Z walk in FA.

[dew1679666265]

People keep saying that Z is done as a Cub, but I don't see it. I don't see how you can trade that guy (who has a NTC), who isn't pitching like an ace, who has that kind of baggage, with that kind of salary. I just don't know how that happens.

 

I do think you can trade him, but we're not going to get a thing for him I'd say. I'd be more in favor of suspending him for as long as you're allowed and then letting him pitch the remainder of the season. That way the outburst from yesterday isn't as fresh on GMs' minds and you're more likely to get some kind of a return on him.

[Little Slide Rooter]

If Atkins got Lillys spot, if hes traded, that would be very dissapointing and an awful decision, although that has been the theme of the year. Cashner, Jackson, Diamond, and even Samardjiza since moving to Iowas rotation have outpitched Atkins all year long. In fact, as much as Id prefer Cash, Jax, or Diamond, in a lost season, Shark might be the best choice for the simple fact that I dont know how much longer hes under team control and this could be our last chance to see what he could do in the rotation, maybe build some trade value before giving up on him.

 

My thinking with bringing up Atkins instead of Jackson is the idea that they might not want to promote Jackson for his first ML duty in a lost season with a poor offense that won't give sufficient run support. Also, if you bring up Atkins and get a couple of good months out of him, his trade value might go the way Kevin Hart's did.

 

Plus, you continue not to have the clock start on Jackson in that scenario. I'm not really advocating it, but it's a move I could see them making. And for the reasons I pointed out, I wouldn't necessarily be against it.

 

My main point was considering that this is a lost season, why not give Shark 1 last shot before giving up on him completely? Hes been given chances in the rotation before, and its been awful, but hes going well this year, so maybe, just maybe he can be OK, and if either Shark or Atkins were to pitch their best and raise their trade value, Sharks would surely be higher than Atkins. How much longer is Shark under team control anyway?

[Little Slide Rooter]

Pat Burrell has a two year $16 million dollar contract. I'd love to switch those contracts!

 

.

 

A. where do we play Pat?

B. In 58 PA with the Giants, Pats hiting .314/.379/.608 with 4HR while the Rays pick up the tab, so I doubt they're in any rush to trade him.

[erik316wttn]

I bet 1 million internets that everyone in this thread pissing and moaning about Hendry giving Z the contract extension would have been absolutely up in arms had Hendry let Z walk in FA.

 

Yes, but that was before he punctuated a completely terrible season with yet another temper tantrum.

 

Success is the best band-aid there is. As long as a player or a team is doing well, the problems tend to get ignored. Start losing, however, and that band aid is ripped off and you see the sores underneath.

[Sammys Boombox]

Why do all of Hendry's contracts have NTC, Player Options, and dollar figures more than other teams were willing to give? Also, take into account that supposedly players love to play for the Cubs. Aggravating.

[Sammys Boombox]

Oh, and I love Soriano's reaction in the background.

[dew1679666265]

Why do all of Hendry's contracts have NTC, Player Options, and dollar figures more than other teams were willing to give? Also, take into account that supposedly players love to play for the Cubs. Aggravating.

 

The Z, Ramirez and (I believe) Lee contracts were all considered hometown discounts at the time they were signed. Lilly's salary is pretty low and I believe the White Sox or Padres were offering more money for Kosuke when he signed with the Cubs. Dempster also likely signed a bit below market value. Soriano is really the only big contract that Hendry outbid others on.

 

Z, Lee, Lilly, Soriano, Shark and Kosuke have NTCs or no-trade protection. Ramirez has a NTC through this year. Only Dempster and Aramis have player options, Z has a vesting option. Shark's NTC was a little crazy, but necessary to sign him.

 

The reasoning behind NTCs and options is that you can potentially give a little less money or be more likely to get a hometown discount if you offer up player options and NTCs. For some of those guys, their 10/5 rights are valid already (Z) or are about to be (Lee) or we wouldn't want strongly to trade them now (Dempster). Some of these hometown discounts potentially don't happen without the NTCs.

Edited June 26, 2010 by dew

[dew1679666265]

I bet 1 million internets that everyone in this thread pissing and moaning about Hendry giving Z the contract extension would have been absolutely up in arms had Hendry let Z walk in FA.

 

The response was overwhelmingly positive in the Z signed thread.

 

rocket and Meph were probably the most negative about it. Maybe Tim as well.

[dew1679666265]

My main point was considering that this is a lost season, why not give Shark 1 last shot before giving up on him completely? Hes been given chances in the rotation before, and its been awful, but hes going well this year, so maybe, just maybe he can be OK, and if either Shark or Atkins were to pitch their best and raise their trade value, Sharks would surely be higher than Atkins. How much longer is Shark under team control anyway?

 

Honestly, I mentioned Atkins because that was just who came to mind. I wouldn't mind Shark up in the same thinking, though it might be better to leave him in AAA to keep building confidence and working on developing pitches without getting hit around too much.

 

I'm not sure how long he's under team control, however. I suck at figuring that stuff out.

[NCCubFan]

My thinking with bringing up Atkins instead of Jackson is the idea that they might not want to promote Jackson for his first ML duty in a lost season with a poor offense that won't give sufficient run support.

I actually think that would be a good situation to bring him up under. He'd be able to get his feet wet at the major league level in a situation where there's no pressure to win, and the experience he gains this year might put him in a position to succeed from the very beginning next year. I think back to 2006 when the Cubs brought up Marshall and Marmol prematurely because of all the pitching injuries. They took their lumps that year, but then contributed to the 2007 division title. A lot depends on how well Jackson can mentally handle having some initial struggles.