Carlos Zambrano's brouhaha and apology

[mlarner]

I am embarrassed to be a Cubs fan right now. I can deal with them not being good and I can deal with them being a poorly run organization. This has been the reality for the vast majority of the time I have been a fan and it has been incredibly frustrating most of the time, but I don't think I have ever been this embarrassed.

 

If this does not cement the decision to get rid of both Lou and Jim, I will be very suspicious of the decision-making capabilities of the new ownership group.

[Guest]

I am embarrassed to be a Cubs fan right now. I can deal with them not being good and I can deal with them being a poorly run organization. This has been the reality for the vast majority of the time I have been a fan and it has been incredibly frustrating most of the time, but I don't think I have ever been this embarrassed.

 

If this does not cement the decision to get rid of both Lou and Jim, I will be very suspicious of the decision-making capabilities of the new ownership group.

Why does a pitcher behaving poorly make you embarrassed to be a Cubs fan?

[GvilleCub]

Normally, anything happening that could hasten the end of the Piniella/Hendry era would have to viewed as a positive development for the Cubs, but now that I have the sneaking suspicion that Ricketts will make us long for the return of the Wrigley family, I'm not so sure it matters...

[dew1679666265]

If this does not cement the decision to get rid of both Lou and Jim, I will be very suspicious of the decision-making capabilities of the new ownership group.

 

I really don't see why Lou or Hendry should be fired over Z pitching a fit. He's been a very good pitcher for a few years now and, while he's been overpaid, his contract didn't look very bad at all when he was signed to it.

 

A player throwing a fit shouldn't be held against the manager or GM.

[Banedon]

Man...Terry Boers totally had this pegged today. They don't have today's podcast up yet, but he actually picked a Zambrano blowup today. With the Cubs playing bad, the Sox on a streak, the emotion of the cross town rivalry, and Z not having had a blowup in a while, he though Zambrano would be all jacked up and lose his mind. He couldn't have been more dead on, unfortunately.

[mlarner]

I am embarrassed to be a Cubs fan right now. I can deal with them not being good and I can deal with them being a poorly run organization. This has been the reality for the vast majority of the time I have been a fan and it has been incredibly frustrating most of the time, but I don't think I have ever been this embarrassed.

 

If this does not cement the decision to get rid of both Lou and Jim, I will be very suspicious of the decision-making capabilities of the new ownership group.

Why does a pitcher behaving poorly make you embarrassed to be a Cubs fan?

 

I think the biggest reason is because this follows a pattern that has been happening for a long time now, and as an organization the Cubs have not been up to the task of dealing with it. Carlos plays with fire and intensity, and that has always been one of the things I have enjoyed about him, but he has continually called out teammates (said things to them in the dugout beytween innings, shakes his head at them and stares them down during the game) over the years and the Cubs have not been able to get it through his head that it is not acceptable. It is more than just a pitcher behaving poorly, it is a pattern of unacceptable behavior that has been allowed to continue until it inevitably blows up.

 

Regardless, IMO showing up your teammates like that is just bush league and you don't treat your teammates like that.

[erik316wttn]

Oh, believe me, Z is plenty at fault too. But as a rule you generally don't see dugout fights on teams where the manager has control.

 

We've known for quite a while that Lou phoned it in a while ago. This is yet another example.

 

How do we know when a manager is in control of his clubhouse, though? It's assumed a lot of times when a team is losing, but just because a team is losing doesn't mean the manager has lost control.

 

This is the only "incident" we've had this year and I really don't see anything else making me think the players are rebelling against Lou or anything.

 

I don't think they're actively "rebelling" against Lou, but you can tell on the field the effort just isn't there and a lot of guys just don't give a damn.

[mlarner]

If this does not cement the decision to get rid of both Lou and Jim, I will be very suspicious of the decision-making capabilities of the new ownership group.

 

I really don't see why Lou or Hendry should be fired over Z pitching a fit. He's been a very good pitcher for a few years now and, while he's been overpaid, his contract didn't look very bad at all when he was signed to it.

 

A player throwing a fit shouldn't be held against the manager or GM.

 

I don't believe either of them will be or should be fired resulting from Z's actions today, but I really hope it plays into the decision to not bring either one back next year. Maybe I am the only one, but this seems to be a larger issue than just 1 player throwing a fit 1 time.

Edited June 26, 2010 by mlarner

[dew1679666265]

I don't think they're actively "rebelling" against Lou, but you can tell on the field the effort just isn't there and a lot of guys just don't give a damn.

 

I haven't seen a lack of effort really. I just don't think this team is very good with Lee and Ramirez struggling. A team playing poorly can give the impression that the players aren't trying, but I think Z's explosion today is an example that the players do care.

[dew1679666265]

If this does not cement the decision to get rid of both Lou and Jim, I will be very suspicious of the decision-making capabilities of the new ownership group.

 

I really don't see why Lou or Hendry should be fired over Z pitching a fit. He's been a very good pitcher for a few years now and, while he's been overpaid, his contract didn't look very bad at all when he was signed to it.

 

A player throwing a fit shouldn't be held against the manager or GM.

 

I don't believe either of them will be or should be fired, but I really hope it plays into the decision to not bring either one back. Maybe I am the only one, but this seems to be a larger issue than just 1 player throwing a fit 1 time.

 

It's not just one player throwing a fit one time. It's a very hot-tempered player throwing a fit again. It's not good, but there's little Lou or Hendry could do about it.

Edited June 26, 2010 by dew

[Sammy Sofa]

Normally, anything happening that could hasten the end of the Piniella/Hendry era would have to viewed as a positive development for the Cubs, but now that I have the sneaking suspicion that Ricketts will make us long for the return of the Wrigley family, I'm not so sure it matters...

 

How could this possibly make you or anyone else long for the Tribune over the Ricketts this early into the Ricketts' ownership?

[XZero771679666304]

Normally, anything happening that could hasten the end of the Piniella/Hendry era would have to viewed as a positive development for the Cubs, but now that I have the sneaking suspicion that Ricketts will make us long for the return of the Wrigley family, I'm not so sure it matters...

 

How could this possibly make you or anyone else long for the Tribune over the Ricketts this early into the Ricketts' ownership?

 

 

Yeah, it's silly. The word from the beginning was that the new ownership would assess after this year, and at this point it would be pointless to make any moves other than to tell the GM to sell. People are just discontent because heads aren't rolling, but it wouldn't make a difference right now. Action for the sake of action isn't positive.

[Outshined_One]

Normally, anything happening that could hasten the end of the Piniella/Hendry era would have to viewed as a positive development for the Cubs, but now that I have the sneaking suspicion that Ricketts will make us long for the return of the Wrigley family, I'm not so sure it matters...

 

How could this possibly make you or anyone else long for the Tribune over the Ricketts this early into the Ricketts' ownership?

 

Considering this year's draft budget is likely around $4m (which is bad), I'm beginning to wonder.

[mlarner]

If this does not cement the decision to get rid of both Lou and Jim, I will be very suspicious of the decision-making capabilities of the new ownership group.

 

I really don't see why Lou or Hendry should be fired over Z pitching a fit. He's been a very good pitcher for a few years now and, while he's been overpaid, his contract didn't look very bad at all when he was signed to it.

 

A player throwing a fit shouldn't be held against the manager or GM.

 

I don't believe either of them will be or should be fired, but I really hope it plays into the decision to not bring either one back. Maybe I am the only one, but this seems to be a larger issue than just 1 player throwing a fit 1 time.

 

You don't think they should be fired, but you think this should cement the decision to get rid of both of them? I'm confused.

 

And it's not just one player throwing a fit one time. It's a very hot-tempered player throwing a fit again. It's not good, but there's little Lou or Hendry could do about it.

 

I edited my posting to be more clear as soon as I published. I am not saying that this single incident should or will lead to either being fired mid-season, but I do think both should be gone after the season for the many reasons that have been hashed out in these forums. This is one of the many reasons both need to go.

 

That was my point, it is not 1 player throwing a fit 1 time, it is a player that has done it over and over and over again and it still has not been dealt with by the organization. I don't have a problem with Z getting amped up and going crazy at himself or the umps (even though it usually is not good for the team it is fun as heck to watch) but going after teammates like that cannot happen. I think there is quite a bit Hendry, especially, could have done about it in the past to ensure that this kind of thing did not happen again in the future.

[dew1679666265]

I edited my posting to be more clear as soon as I published. I am not saying that this single incident should or will lead to either being fired mid-season, but I do think both should be gone after the season for the many reasons that have been hashed out in these forums. This is one of the many reasons both need to go.

 

Yeah, I posted that before I saw your edit and then I edited my post. The edit cleared up my question.

 

That was my point, it is not 1 player throwing a fit 1 time, it is a player that has done it over and over and over again and it still has not been dealt with by the organization. I don't have a problem with Z getting amped up and going crazy at himself or the umps (even though it usually is not good for the team it is fun as heck to watch) but going after teammates like that cannot happen. I think there is quite a bit Hendry, especially, could have done about it in the past to ensure that this kind of thing did not happen again in the future.

 

Wasn't Z suspended when he punched Barrett? If so, I don't see how he wasn't dealt with the first time he threw a fit. It wouldn't have been smart to trade him for nothing then and we don't know how Hendry is going to react here - other than suspending Z indefinitely.

 

I don't get what more they should have done that would have helped the team.

[Sammy Sofa]

Normally, anything happening that could hasten the end of the Piniella/Hendry era would have to viewed as a positive development for the Cubs, but now that I have the sneaking suspicion that Ricketts will make us long for the return of the Wrigley family, I'm not so sure it matters...

 

How could this possibly make you or anyone else long for the Tribune over the Ricketts this early into the Ricketts' ownership?

 

Considering this year's draft budget is likely around $4m (which is bad), I'm beginning to wonder.

 

You're kidding, right?

[baseballfan50]

As an outsider, I'm not all that familiar with Zambrano, but it's not a surprise. Emotion is good, but you can't lose it like that.

 

I do wonder if Lou is gonna be gone as well.

 

The Cubs may just have to take a bath on Z's contract, as it will be hard to unload.

[Guest]

Normally, anything happening that could hasten the end of the Piniella/Hendry era would have to viewed as a positive development for the Cubs, but now that I have the sneaking suspicion that Ricketts will make us long for the return of the Wrigley family, I'm not so sure it matters...

 

How could this possibly make you or anyone else long for the Tribune over the Ricketts this early into the Ricketts' ownership?

 

Considering this year's draft budget is likely around $4m (which is bad), I'm beginning to wonder.

 

You're kidding, right?

Looks that way. Even the over-slot guys we drafted that are remaining out there aren't million dollar type players. They're 50-100K over slot players for the most part.

[mlarner]

I edited my posting to be more clear as soon as I published. I am not saying that this single incident should or will lead to either being fired mid-season, but I do think both should be gone after the season for the many reasons that have been hashed out in these forums. This is one of the many reasons both need to go.

 

Yeah, I posted that before I saw your edit and then I edited my post. The edit cleared up my question.

 

That was my point, it is not 1 player throwing a fit 1 time, it is a player that has done it over and over and over again and it still has not been dealt with by the organization. I don't have a problem with Z getting amped up and going crazy at himself or the umps (even though it usually is not good for the team it is fun as heck to watch) but going after teammates like that cannot happen. I think there is quite a bit Hendry, especially, could have done about it in the past to ensure that this kind of thing did not happen again in the future.

 

Wasn't Z suspended when he punched Barrett? If so, I don't see how he wasn't dealt with the first time he threw a fit. It wouldn't have been smart to trade him for nothing then and we don't know how Hendry is going to react here - other than suspending Z indefinitely.

 

I don't get what more they should have done that would have helped the team.

 

I agree 100% with you about not trading him for nothing either then or now, and hopefully Hendry will not go down that road again. The last thing we need is another player being the scapegoat and getting traded for table scraps after he has been designated/labeled as this year's problem. Carlos has been a huge part of the team's success and deserves better than that.

 

I am sure you are right about him getting suspended before with Barrett, but I am thinking more of all the times he has stared down his teammates after an error in the field or had things to say to them in the dugout. Maybe my memory is not right here, but if sure seems like he has done this quite a few times in the past and if as an organization the Cubs made it clear that was not acceptable from the start I think he would have gotten the message many years ago. Sit him down and talk to him after the first time and tell him why a major league player cannot do that. Then, when it happens again, begin the fines and suspensions to make it clear it will not be tolerated. I know Carlos is fiery and it is one of the things that makes him fun to watch (and could be part of his success in the past) but in my opinion you cannot direct it at your fellow teammates.

[Outshined_One]

Looks that way. Even the over-slot guys we drafted that are remaining out there aren't million dollar type players. They're 50-100K over slot players for the most part.

 

That's pretty much the case. Most of the guys who'll ask for more than $150k over slot don't deserve it and/or won't get it. A lot of them seem to be high floor/low ceiling types.

[davell]

Normally, anything happening that could hasten the end of the Piniella/Hendry era would have to viewed as a positive development for the Cubs, but now that I have the sneaking suspicion that Ricketts will make us long for the return of the Wrigley family, I'm not so sure it matters...

 

How could this possibly make you or anyone else long for the Tribune over the Ricketts this early into the Ricketts' ownership?

 

Considering this year's draft budget is likely around $4m (which is bad), I'm beginning to wonder.

 

You're kidding, right?

Looks that way. Even the over-slot guys we drafted that are remaining out there aren't million dollar type players. They're 50-100K over slot players for the most part.

 

I'll admit I'm worried about Ricketts' as well already, especially after hearing some of AZPhil's comments about future plans(although we don't know how plugged in, Phil truly is) As far as the draft goes though(and I wasn't all that happy to begin with) I'm at least thinking that out of Crum, Harper, Harman, Geiger, Cox, Pinckard, Wells, and Szczur, one or two of those guys will be a surprise sign that's for alot more than what we were thinking.......Not to mention, Golden hasn't signed yet either, so he could conceivably cost us alot more than what we were thinking as well. I'm still hopeful we spend 5 mill or a tad more, which would at least make me feel a little better about Ricketts......

[dew1679666265]

I agree 100% with you about not trading him for nothing either then or now, and hopefully Hendry will not go down that road again. The last thing we need is another player being the scapegoat and getting traded for table scraps after he has been designated/labeled as this year's problem. Carlos has been a huge part of the team's success and deserves better than that.

 

I am sure you are right about him getting suspended before with Barrett, but I am thinking more of all the times he has stared down his teammates after an error in the field or had things to say to them in the dugout. Maybe my memory is not right here, but if sure seems like he has done this quite a few times in the past and if as an organization the Cubs made it clear that was not acceptable from the start I think he would have gotten the message many years ago. Sit him down and talk to him after the first time and tell him why a major league player cannot do that. Then, when it happens again, begin the fines and suspensions to make it clear it will not be tolerated. I know Carlos is fiery and it is one of the things that makes him fun to watch (and could be part of his success in the past) but in my opinion you cannot direct it at your fellow teammates.

 

Staredowns and arguments aren't all that infrequent in baseball or in sports in general. It'd be really weird to fine or suspend him for staring down teamamtes. And apparently they've already been down the anger management road as well. To me, this is simply what happens when you mix an ultra-fiery player with a really bad team (the way we're playing now).

[Guest]

Looks that way. Even the over-slot guys we drafted that are remaining out there aren't million dollar type players. They're 50-100K over slot players for the most part.

 

I'll admit I'm worried about Ricketts' as well already, especially after hearing some of AZPhil's comments about future plans(although we don't know how plugged in, Phil truly is) As far as the draft goes though(and I wasn't all that happy to begin with) I'm at least thinking that out of Crum, Harper, Harman, Geiger, Cox, Pinckard, Wells, and Szczur, one or two of those guys will be a surprise sign that's for alot more than what we were thinking.......Not to mention, Golden hasn't signed yet either, so he could conceivably cost us alot more than what we were thinking as well. I'm still hopeful we spend 5 mill or a tad more, which would at least make me feel a little better about Ricketts......

I'm not really worried about the Ricketts in general. But I do think our budget for the draft is fairly low.

 

I think the only way we sniff $5M is if we overpay a bunch of guys. I just don't see any of those guys being worth the $500K it would take to push us towards that total from where we're currently at, unless my math is off (which it could be).

[A-Cal]

Looks that way. Even the over-slot guys we drafted that are remaining out there aren't million dollar type players. They're 50-100K over slot players for the most part.

 

That's pretty much the case. Most of the guys who'll ask for more than $150k over slot don't deserve it and/or won't get it. A lot of them seem to be high floor/low ceiling types.

 

How much should the Cubs be spending in the draft?

[baseballfan50]

I agree 100% with you about not trading him for nothing either then or now, and hopefully Hendry will not go down that road again. The last thing we need is another player being the scapegoat and getting traded for table scraps after he has been designated/labeled as this year's problem. Carlos has been a huge part of the team's success and deserves better than that.

 

I am sure you are right about him getting suspended before with Barrett, but I am thinking more of all the times he has stared down his teammates after an error in the field or had things to say to them in the dugout. Maybe my memory is not right here, but if sure seems like he has done this quite a few times in the past and if as an organization the Cubs made it clear that was not acceptable from the start I think he would have gotten the message many years ago. Sit him down and talk to him after the first time and tell him why a major league player cannot do that. Then, when it happens again, begin the fines and suspensions to make it clear it will not be tolerated. I know Carlos is fiery and it is one of the things that makes him fun to watch (and could be part of his success in the past) but in my opinion you cannot direct it at your fellow teammates.

 

Staredowns and arguments aren't all that infrequent in baseball or in sports in general. It'd be really weird to fine or suspend him for staring down teamamtes. And apparently they've already been down the anger management road as well. To me, this is simply what happens when you mix an ultra-fiery player with a really bad team (the way we're playing now).

 

True. Pujols and La Russa apparently had a shouting match earlier this year, and a couple of years before a big deal was made about a fight between Edmonds and La Russa. I don't think those incidents ever got physical or were caught on camera, though. La Russa does have bad blood with Scott Rolen and Ozzie Smith, though.

 

Every team is going to have fights, usually involving managers. However, Z appears to be out of control. Doing it in the dugout doesn't help, because the cameras will pick it up. Of course Chicago, being baseball-crazy and a very large city likely has more of a media glare and more pressure on the team to do well.