According to ESPN, Cubs SOS is 29th in MLB

[jersey cubs fan]

2008 was fantastic. So was 2007, and so was 2003.

 

"Hellish" is the 1990s. The '00s were great.

 

No they weren't. They were mediocre. 4 sub .500 seasons, 3 95 loss seasons and only 1 90 win season. 3 playoff appearances in 10 years despite a substantial financial advantage over the competition. The Angels, Twins and Athletics had great 2000's, the Cubs just managed to not suck as much as they did the previous decade.

[UMFan83]

2008 was fantastic. So was 2007, and so was 2003.

 

"Hellish" is the 1990s. The '00s were great.

 

No they weren't. They were mediocre. 4 sub .500 seasons, 3 95 loss seasons and only 1 90 win season. 3 playoff appearances in 10 years despite a substantial financial advantage over the competition. The Angels, Twins and Athletics had great 2000's, the Cubs just managed to not suck as much as they did the previous decade.

 

All you had to say was Neifi Perez.

[J.R.]

2008 was fantastic. So was 2007, and so was 2003.

 

"Hellish" is the 1990s. The '00s were great.

 

No they weren't. They were mediocre. 4 sub .500 seasons, 3 95 loss seasons and only 1 90 win season. 3 playoff appearances in 10 years despite a substantial financial advantage over the competition. The Angels, Twins and Athletics had great 2000's, the Cubs just managed to not suck as much as they did the previous decade.

 

Well, I had a great time following the team at the ballpark and at home in front of the TV. You can use whatever metric you want.

[champaignchris]

What's a bad first quarter of a season in the grand scheme of things to a franchise that hasn't drafted an every day position player since Joe Girardi?

 

There are 2 on the current team.

 

How dare you interrupt my hyperbole with facts!!!

[jersey cubs fan]

What's a bad first quarter of a season in the grand scheme of things to a franchise that hasn't drafted an every day position player since Joe Girardi?

 

There are 2 on the current team.

 

How dare you interrupt my hyperbole with facts!!!

 

Eh, Geo's in a platoon.

[Guest]

What's a bad first quarter of a season in the grand scheme of things to a franchise that hasn't drafted an every day position player since Joe Girardi?

 

There are 2 on the current team.

 

How dare you interrupt my hyperbole with facts!!!

 

Eh, Geo's in a platoon.

 

Geo and Castro make 4.

[sneakypower]

well, Starlin wasn't actually drafted

[Guest]

well, Starlin wasn't actually drafted

 

Right, and neither was Geo.

[dew1679666265]

What's a bad first quarter of a season in the grand scheme of things to a franchise that hasn't drafted an every day position player since Joe Girardi?

 

There are 2 on the current team.

 

How dare you interrupt my hyperbole with facts!!!

 

Eh, Geo's in a platoon.

 

Geo and Castro make 4.

 

Who are the other 2? Theriot and?

[Guest]

Colvin, although he's not really the "everyday" part at the moment.

[dew1679666265]

Colvin, although he's not really the "everyday" part at the moment.

 

Ah. I thought about Colvin, but like you said, he doesn't qualify for the everyday part of the statement just yet.

[sneakypower]

well, Starlin wasn't actually drafted

 

Right, and neither was Geo.

unless Wikipedia is lying to me, Soto was drafted

 

Selected by the Chicago Cubs 318th overall in the 11th round of the 2001 Major League Baseball Draft

[Guest]

well, Starlin wasn't actually drafted

 

Right, and neither was Geo.

unless Wikipedia is lying to me, Soto was drafted

 

Selected by the Chicago Cubs 318th overall in the 11th round of the 2001 Major League Baseball Draft

 

I hate Puerto Rico so much.

[daske17]

What's a bad first quarter of a season in the grand scheme of things to a franchise that hasn't drafted an every day position player since Joe Girardi?

 

There are 2 on the current team.

 

How dare you interrupt my hyperbole with facts!!!

 

And Ronny Cedeno is waving to you from Pittsburgh!

[javy knows my name]

What's a bad first quarter of a season in the grand scheme of things to a franchise that hasn't drafted an every day position player since Joe Girardi?

 

There are 2 on the current team.

 

How dare you interrupt my hyperbole with facts!!!

 

And Ronny Cedeno is waving to you from Pittsburgh!

Bobby Crosby and Ronny Cedeno up the middle is so damn unbelievable and funny to me.

[Tracer Bullet]

What's a bad first quarter of a season in the grand scheme of things to a franchise that hasn't drafted an every day position player since Joe Girardi?

 

There are 2 on the current team.

 

How dare you interrupt my hyperbole with facts!!!

 

And Ronny Cedeno is waving to you from Pittsburgh!

 

being an everyday player in Pittsburgh doesn't count (not b/c it's not the Cubs, but b/c Pittsburgh isn't a real MLB team)

[champaignchris]

O.K., facts...

 

Joe Girardi was taken by the Cubs in the 5th round of the 1986 draft (the last one by Dallas Green) and he was in the league as a regular catcher for a number of years and amassed over 4000 AB.

 

The next player the Cubs drafted to accumulate over 4000 AB was...

 

...well, Jeff Cirillo in 1987, but he didn't sign with the team and was re-drafted by the Brewers in 1991.

 

The guy after that was...

 

Well, it hasn't happened yet.

 

Doug Glanville (1991) got to 3,900. Corey Patterson (1998) is at 3,500 and counting (slowly). Others drafted and signed since 1986 to get to at least 2000 AB are Matt Wallbeck (1987), Eric Hinske (1998), Theriot (2001), and that's all she wrote.

 

The sum total of draftees with at least 500 AB (about one season's worth as a starter) since 2000 are: Bobby Hill (2000), Brendan Harris, Soto, and Theriot (all 2001 - a veritable draft bonanza for the Cubs), Casey McGehee (2003).

 

So the best (and by "best" I mean saw significant action as big leaguer) position player drafted (and signed) by the Cubs between Joe Girardi (1986) and Theriot/Soto (2001) was either Doug Glanville or Corey Patterson. Which ties back into my earlier post about the '90s being hell for Cubs.

[Tracer Bullet]

what's the significance of 4000 ABs?

[fivepercent]

what's the significance of 4000 ABs?

 

It supports his argument.

[Tracer Bullet]

yeah. if you're going to pick an arbitrary number, at least go with PAs so as to take into account walks.

 

I'm no Theriot fan, but it seems hard to argue that a guy with 2300 PAs hasn't seen "significant" action in the majors.

[jersey cubs fan]

yeah. if you're going to pick an arbitrary number, at least go with PAs so as to take into account walks.

 

I'm no Theriot fan, but it seems hard to argue that a guy with 2300 PAs hasn't seen "significant" action in the majors.

 

It's still just a guy who has started for a couple seasons. The general point is valid. You got Girardi and now can start thinking of Theriot. The lack of quality position players has been a significant issue, it's why they have to pay so damn much for other people's hitters.

[bukie]

What's a full season worth of PAs, about 600?

 

I'd consider any player with about a good 3 full seasons of time an "everyday player". So, again arbitrarily, > 1500 PAs. That should cover Theriot (and, really, he's been plenty regular the past 3 years). Soto may be coming close to that also.

[jersey cubs fan]

What's a full season worth of PAs, about 600?

 

I'd consider any player with about a good 3 full seasons of time an "everyday player". So, again arbitrarily, > 1500 PAs. That should cover Theriot (and, really, he's been plenty regular the past 3 years). Soto may be coming close to that also.

 

About 740 for an actual 162 game player. 680-700 for most everyday guys. 600 would be taking a fair amount of time off. Three full seasons is going to get you 2000 PA.

[Tracer Bullet]

What's a full season worth of PAs, about 600?

 

I'd consider any player with about a good 3 full seasons of time an "everyday player". So, again arbitrarily, > 1500 PAs. That should cover Theriot (and, really, he's been plenty regular the past 3 years). Soto may be coming close to that also.

 

About 740 for an actual 162 game player. 680-700 for most everyday guys. 600 would be taking a fair amount of time off. Three full seasons is going to get you 2000 PA.

 

150 games @ 4 PAs/game = 600. I wouldn't consider missing 10-12 games to be a huge amount of time off. And for catchers, the bar should be lower.

 

Either way, it's all splitting hairs. Yes, the Cubs have not been good at drafting position players for far too long. But the original claim and the "facts" posted to support it painted a pretty biased picture.

[jersey cubs fan]

What's a full season worth of PAs, about 600?

 

I'd consider any player with about a good 3 full seasons of time an "everyday player". So, again arbitrarily, > 1500 PAs. That should cover Theriot (and, really, he's been plenty regular the past 3 years). Soto may be coming close to that also.

 

About 740 for an actual 162 game player. 680-700 for most everyday guys. 600 would be taking a fair amount of time off. Three full seasons is going to get you 2000 PA.

 

150 games @ 4 PAs/game = 600. I wouldn't consider missing 10-12 games to be a huge amount of time off. And for catchers, the bar should be lower.

 

Just take a look at actual everyday guys and you will see they are all well above 600 PA, and to further the point, 3 seasons of 600 PA does not equal 1500 PAs. 2000 over three years if much closer to an actual everyday player.