Cards offer Holliday 16m/per for 8 years

[Andy]

Orioles Join Holliday Bidding

By Tim Dierkes [December 17 at 12:05am CST]

The Orioles have "jumped into" the bidding for outfielder Matt Holliday, write Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. But despite the leap, the writers question the team's seriousness and Holliday's inclination to play in Baltimore, labeling the O's a longshot.

 

Surely they have a few bucks laying around. Have they really splurged on anything since Miguel Tejada?

 

Was it Baltimore or Washington that made a massive offer to Teixeira last offseason? I think it was the Orioles, but I'm not sure.

They both did IIRC.

[jersey cubs fan]

Orioles Join Holliday Bidding

By Tim Dierkes [December 17 at 12:05am CST]

The Orioles have "jumped into" the bidding for outfielder Matt Holliday, write Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. But despite the leap, the writers question the team's seriousness and Holliday's inclination to play in Baltimore, labeling the O's a longshot.

 

Surely they have a few bucks laying around. Have they really splurged on anything since Miguel Tejada?

 

Was it Baltimore or Washington that made a massive offer to Teixeira last offseason? I think it was the Orioles, but I'm not sure.

 

Baltimore made a play for the hometown kid, not sure how massive the offer ended up being.

 

Baltimore had the highest payroll in the league back in the late 90's, leapfrogging with the Yankees until NY pulled away. Andy MacPhail's MO has been to allow for one big contract on the team, with Sosa, then nearly Hampton replacing Sammy. It wouldn't surprise me.

[sweetpeteman]

Orioles Join Holliday Bidding

By Tim Dierkes [December 17 at 12:05am CST]

The Orioles have "jumped into" the bidding for outfielder Matt Holliday, write Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. But despite the leap, the writers question the team's seriousness and Holliday's inclination to play in Baltimore, labeling the O's a longshot.

 

Surely they have a few bucks laying around. Have they really splurged on anything since Miguel Tejada?

 

Was it Baltimore or Washington that made a massive offer to Teixeira last offseason? I think it was the Orioles, but I'm not sure.

 

Baltimore made a play for the hometown kid, not sure how massive the offer ended up being.

 

Baltimore had the highest payroll in the league back in the late 90's, leapfrogging with the Yankees until NY pulled away. Andy MacPhail's MO has been to allow for one big contract on the team, with Sosa, then nearly Hampton replacing Sammy. It wouldn't surprise me.

 

 

They both made offers but Washington's was the larger, something like 120/7.

[dew1679666265]

Orioles Join Holliday Bidding

By Tim Dierkes [December 17 at 12:05am CST]

The Orioles have "jumped into" the bidding for outfielder Matt Holliday, write Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. But despite the leap, the writers question the team's seriousness and Holliday's inclination to play in Baltimore, labeling the O's a longshot.

 

Surely they have a few bucks laying around. Have they really splurged on anything since Miguel Tejada?

 

Was it Baltimore or Washington that made a massive offer to Teixeira last offseason? I think it was the Orioles, but I'm not sure.

 

Baltimore made a play for the hometown kid, not sure how massive the offer ended up being.

 

Baltimore had the highest payroll in the league back in the late 90's, leapfrogging with the Yankees until NY pulled away. Andy MacPhail's MO has been to allow for one big contract on the team, with Sosa, then nearly Hampton replacing Sammy. It wouldn't surprise me.

 

 

They both made offers but Washington's was the larger, something like 120/7.

 

That's what I remembered then. I knew one of them offered up a huge deal, but didn't remember that both were after him.

[davearm2]

Defense has to put Ramirez pretty damn close to Holliday.

 

Maybe. I think he's still behind, as Holliday has had one or two standout seasons to go along with his steadily good overall performance, while Ramirez is about as consistently very good but not elite as you can get.

A quick-and-dirty control for park effects shows:

 

Holliday: .808 career OPS on the road (.284/.353/.454)

Ramirez: .830 career OPS on the road (.280/.334/.496)

 

It's not perfect but it does illustrate that these guys aren't too different as hitters.

[Guest]

While Ramirez does get points for playing the tougher position, he hasn't been able to stay completely healthy partly because of the position he plays, so he sorta loses points at the same time.

[Little Slide Rooter]

3:11pm: We have a pair of Holliday tweets from earlier this afternoon. ESPN's Buster Olney says the Orioles had brief talks for Holliday ten days ago, talks that are now dormant. Meanwhile Yahoo's Tim Brown believes Holliday has a legitimate offer from an East Coast team, not the Orioles.

 

After missing out on Milton Bradley, the mystery team moves on to plan B

[17 Seconds]

Defense has to put Ramirez pretty damn close to Holliday.

 

Maybe. I think he's still behind, as Holliday has had one or two standout seasons to go along with his steadily good overall performance, while Ramirez is about as consistently very good but not elite as you can get.

A quick-and-dirty control for park effects shows:

 

Holliday: .808 career OPS on the road (.284/.353/.454)

Ramirez: .830 career OPS on the road (.280/.334/.496)

 

It's not perfect but it does illustrate that these guys aren't too different as hitters.

 

yeah but that's kind of skewed due to those guys having different types of careers.

 

ramirez struggled for a while before he figured it out, and those early ABs bring his career numbers down. it would be more useful to look at his road numbers from like 04-09 or something like that. holliday was pretty good right from the beginning so his career stats are a more accurate reading of who he's been.

[Guest]

Defense has to put Ramirez pretty damn close to Holliday.

 

Maybe. I think he's still behind, as Holliday has had one or two standout seasons to go along with his steadily good overall performance, while Ramirez is about as consistently very good but not elite as you can get.

A quick-and-dirty control for park effects shows:

 

Holliday: .808 career OPS on the road (.284/.353/.454)

Ramirez: .830 career OPS on the road (.280/.334/.496)

 

It's not perfect but it does illustrate that these guys aren't too different as hitters.

 

yeah but that's kind of skewed due to those guys having different types of careers.

 

ramirez struggled for a while before he figured it out, and those early ABs bring his career numbers down. it would be more useful to look at his road numbers from like 04-09 or something like that. holliday was pretty good right from the beginning so his career stats are a more accurate reading of who he's been.

 

I also wouldn't necessarily compare someone equally on road splits if one guy was in the NL West and the other guy was in the NL Central. San Fran, LA and San Diego are really bad hitting parks and AZ is a hitters park. All the NL Central parks are middle of the pack parks.

 

From the stats above, and without actually looking, I would imagine that Holliday's stats are lower than what I would imagine they would be.

[17 Seconds]

Defense has to put Ramirez pretty damn close to Holliday.

 

Maybe. I think he's still behind, as Holliday has had one or two standout seasons to go along with his steadily good overall performance, while Ramirez is about as consistently very good but not elite as you can get.

A quick-and-dirty control for park effects shows:

 

Holliday: .808 career OPS on the road (.284/.353/.454)

Ramirez: .830 career OPS on the road (.280/.334/.496)

 

It's not perfect but it does illustrate that these guys aren't too different as hitters.

 

yeah but that's kind of skewed due to those guys having different types of careers.

 

ramirez struggled for a while before he figured it out, and those early ABs bring his career numbers down. it would be more useful to look at his road numbers from like 04-09 or something like that. holliday was pretty good right from the beginning so his career stats are a more accurate reading of who he's been.

 

I also wouldn't necessarily compare someone equally on road splits if one guy was in the NL West and the other guy was in the NL Central. San Fran, LA and San Diego are really bad hitting parks and AZ is a hitters park. All the NL Central parks are middle of the pack parks.

 

From the stats above, and without actually looking, I would imagine that Holliday's stats are lower than what I would imagine they would be.

 

yeah good point with the other nl west parks.

[Guest]

A quick look and I was right. Holliday has been horrible at Petco, Chavez Ravine and average in San Fran. He was also bad in Safeco. I don't even know what Oakland's stadium is called anymore, so I didn't get a reading, even though all the AL west parks only have a half a season of stats anyway. He's been fantastic in several of the NL Central parks, however.

[17 Seconds]

i think he settles in as a healthy jd drew with more average but less walks. or pre-2009 david wright with a little less power.

[Guest]

i think he settles in as a healthy jd drew with more average but less walks. or pre-2009 david wright with a little less power.

 

That may be. I'd say his last 2 seasons are about what someone should expect out of him.

[davearm2]

A quick look and I was right. Holliday has been horrible at Petco, Chavez Ravine and average in San Fran. He was also bad in Safeco. I don't even know what Oakland's stadium is called anymore, so I didn't get a reading, even though all the AL west parks only have a half a season of stats anyway. He's been fantastic in several of the NL Central parks, however.

You'd have to consider that Ramirez has followed the same basic pattern too though.

 

If you really wanted to do this right, you'd find a way to park-adjust the individual OPS numbers for both guys, then take a PA-weighted average of the normalized OPS's for both guys, and finally compare those two numbers.

 

I didn't go to all of that work, which is why I said it's quick and dirty to look at .830 vs .808. My intuition tells me that the method outlined above wouldn't change those figures significantly enough to disprove the point that these guys are more or less equal as hitters.

[mcgoobs]

Has anyone validated that the Cards offered Holliday 8 years? Last I heard they were sticking by their five year offer.

[gflore34]

So if the Cards sign Holliday we'll just concede the NL Central to them in 2010 completely ignoring the fact that Pinerio, Franklin, Thompson, Lohse, all average to poor pitchers at best, pitched out their collective asses?

[Shilzzz]

Pineiro won't be back. Penny should be decent in St. Louis. Wasn't Lohse hurt?

[inari]

I don't think there's a ton of evidence that Penny will be decent.

[Shilzzz]

was trying to find a screen shot of the scene in fight club where they are standing around the table repeating "his name is robert paulson" but replace robert paulson with david duncan. oh well

[Maclowery]

Has anyone validated that the Cards offered Holliday 8 years? Last I heard they were sticking by their five year offer.

 

It's still confusing. The local St Louis media reported 8 years, the national media reported 5, and no one seems to know what's going on. Unless one side is simply wrong, I think they may have offered a 5 year guaranteed with 3 option years.

[Andy]

So if the Cards sign Holliday we'll just concede the NL Central to them in 2010 completely ignoring the fact that Pinerio, Franklin, Thompson, Lohse, all average to poor pitchers at best, pitched out their collective asses?

They're all going to pitch out their collective asses again. I don't know what kind of insane power Dave Duncan has, but he does.

[chasinf5s]

Defense has to put Ramirez pretty damn close to Holliday.

 

Maybe. I think he's still behind, as Holliday has had one or two standout seasons to go along with his steadily good overall performance, while Ramirez is about as consistently very good but not elite as you can get.

 

 

Holliday played in colorado

 

enough said