Milton Bradley Traded To Mariners For Carlos Silva

[SouthSideRyan]

There's no line of behavior that a player could cross that would make having him back out of the question? That can't be right.

 

Sure, if he killed somebody, or raped a chick or something like that I would strongly advise not bringing him back to the team.

Why that's not going to make his teammates hit any worse or forget how to catch the ball etc etc so who cares what he does off the field.

 

Right?

 

There's a canyon between raping a girl and being grumpy enough to piss off the rich guys you work with.

[jersey cubs fan]

There's no line of behavior that a player could cross that would make having him back out of the question? That can't be right.

 

Sure, if he killed somebody, or raped a chick or something like that I would strongly advise not bringing him back to the team.

Why that's not going to make his teammates hit any worse or forget how to catch the ball etc etc so who cares what he does off the field.

 

Right?

 

Depends on who he killed or what method he used. But regardless, those are meaningful offenses. Being a dick is not.

Meaningful how? I mean in a baseball production, winning and losing games sense.

 

Law

[Guest]

Question in all seriousness (and It will probably get lost amongst all of the angry posts)...

 

 

What will it take from Silva for this trade to turn into something similar to the Karros/Grudz for Hundley trade? While Karros and Grudz were both better players at the time of the trade, it was not a good looking deal at the time.

 

If Silva was able to muster 150 innings with a 4.25 era, 1.3 WHIP, 6K per 9, 3BB per 9 how would the trade look?

 

Also, are any of the predicitions sites out yet with their stuff?

 

there is just about a zero percent chance that carlos silva would strike out 6 men per 9 innings. as for the other numbers, he'd have to be better than he's been in at least 4 years, so good luck with that. he's probably going to be awful because he always had mediocre stuff and now has started getting hurt and fat. it will be surprising if he can even perform as a league-average 5th starter, so if that's not going to happen, the best thing will be for him to be horrendous in spring training and get released.

 

I'm getting the impression that a lot of people just see the name Carlos Silva, and they are assuming he just can't be as bad as we are all making him out to be, especially considering he signed a 50m contract. To those people, all I can say is look at his stats.

 

His stats scream AAA roster filler. That's it, and that's probably being nice. His peripherals do not say major league caliber on any stat line. Seattle was boneheaded to give him that deal. And guess what. That GM has since been fired and he's consistently labeled as one of the worst the game has ever seen. He's right up there with Jim Bowden. Not to be outdone though, is the guy who actually trades for that guy. Let's put that into perspective for a second.

 

An idiot signed the guy to a contract he had no business giving. Our GM traded for him. Look at the stats that player has put up since he signed that contract, and you have just made that GM look even worse.

 

The contract is the ONLY reason Silva is even in the major leagues right now. Think about that. If he didn't have that contract, he'd be working at McDonald's right now. And Jim Hendry just traded Milton Bradley for him. That means that any one of us (since none of us make millions of dollars) probably would have been a more appealing player than Silva in any Milton Bradley trade.

 

Fire him yesterday.

[jersey cubs fan]

There's no line of behavior that a player could cross that would make having him back out of the question? That can't be right.

 

Sure, if he killed somebody, or raped a chick or something like that I would strongly advise not bringing him back to the team.

Why that's not going to make his teammates hit any worse or forget how to catch the ball etc etc so who cares what he does off the field.

 

Right?

 

There's a canyon between raping a girl and being grumpy enough to piss off the rich guys you work with.

 

And Milton would probably murder that canyon.

[SouthSideRyan]

If he didn't have that contract, he'd be working at McDonald's right now.

 

Then he'd put them out of business for eating all the stock.

 

(Fat jokes are stupid, but I'm going to keep making them til Silva is gone.)

[Rob]

This was an awful deal, there's no doubt about it. Hendry manufactured Bradley's low trade value and refused to just hold onto him. But just so people have a better idea of what they're looking at, here's Silva's xFIP the last few years.

 

3.94, 4.81, 4.57, 4.64, 5.53

 

Now nobody is gonna mistake Silva for a decent pitcher; he isn't. But aside from last year, he's been relatively healthy in his career. I wouldn't be surprised to see some Jason Marquis type value out of Silva...

[Rob]

There's no line of behavior that a player could cross that would make having him back out of the question? That can't be right.

 

Sure, if he killed somebody, or raped a chick or something like that I would strongly advise not bringing him back to the team.

Why that's not going to make his teammates hit any worse or forget how to catch the ball etc etc so who cares what he does off the field.

 

Right?

 

Personally, I've been pretty consistent in saying that I draw the line at breaking the law. DUIs, wife beating, PED using, etc...

 

Last I checked, being a dick wasn't illegal.

[Neuby]

I know the Twins are looking for middle infield help , I wonder if we could package Theriot/Silva/ to try and get some salary relief from the Twins.

[davearm2]

I'm getting the impression that a lot of people just see the name Carlos Silva, and they are assuming he just can't be as bad as we are all making him out to be, especially considering he signed a 50m contract. To those people, all I can say is look at his stats.

 

His stats scream AAA roster filler. That's it, and that's probably being nice. His peripherals do not say major league caliber on any stat line. Seattle was boneheaded to give him that deal. And guess what. That GM has since been fired and he's consistently labeled as one of the worst the game has ever seen. He's right up there with Jim Bowden. Not to be outdone though, is the guy who actually trades for that guy. Let's put that into perspective for a second.

 

An idiot signed the guy to a contract he had no business giving. Our GM traded for him. Look at the stats that player has put up since he signed that contract, and you have just made that GM look even worse.

 

The contract is the ONLY reason Silva is even in the major leagues right now. Think about that. If he didn't have that contract, he'd be working at McDonald's right now. And Jim Hendry just traded Milton Bradley for him. That means that any one of us (since none of us make millions of dollars) probably would have been a more appealing player than Silva in any Milton Bradley trade.

 

Fire him yesterday.

I dunno, Silva's had one real stinker year, and last year he was hurt, but he's also been pretty squarely in the league-average range his other six seasons. Certainly nothing to get excited about to be sure, and he's undoubtedly unworthy of the contract the M's handed him, but hardly grounds for vitriol we're seeing in this thread.

 

FWIW, Bill James has Silva at a 4.64 FIP for 2010. Again not great but not disastrous by any stretch either.

 

I get that folks are pissed about how the Bradley situation was handled, but the Silva hate seems more than a little over the top.

[MSG T]

I know the Twins are looking for middle infield help , I wonder if we could package Theriot/Silva/ to try and get some salary relief from the Twins.

 

Nobody is stupid enough to take Silva unless he's a throw in coming over with Pujols, Arod, oh...wait.

[Guest]

Personally, I've been pretty consistent in saying that I draw the line at breaking the law. DUIs, wife beating, PED using, etc...

 

Last I checked, being a dick wasn't illegal.

 

Right. What a lot of people aren't really catching onto here, is that Hendry is scapegoating Bradley for the awful season that was 2008. Hendry is basically saying that Bradley is the reason Soto couldn't hit the ball out of the infield, or that Fontenot got figured out by opposing pitchers, and that Aramis got hurt diving for that ball because of the glare on Milton's forehead, etc....

 

No one here can honestly believe that the Cubs played horribly in 2008 because Milton Bradley was on the team. Can they? Sure, he was a bit of a distraction off the field, but it had NOTHING to do with what was happening on the field. Bradley might have put a little more undo pressure on himself to perform, which only made him struggle more, but that has nothing to do with any of the other players on the field.

 

That's why Hendry made this his offseason mission. Spin this as Milton's fault, get rid of him and move on. Hendry is taking the blame for signing him in the first place, which he is spinning as leading to the downfall of the 2008 Chicago Cubs. He has not taken the blame for reducing his value to nothing and trading him for crap. Not in my eyes, anyway.

[loukycub]

when silva starts trashing the main people who help pay his salary (that would be the fans who show up to the ballyard, buy overpriced concessions and souvenirs), then i'll throw him under the bus.

 

So you admit you hate him cause he hurt your feelings. I'm glad somebody will.

 

no actually i don't hate silva. i have no opinion on him. seriously. when i say "throw him under the bus" i mean as in joining the majority of the cubs fans in this thread who are hate silva as much as they love major fancrush on bradley. if silva doesn't produce anything worthwhile the first year i won't like him because he didn't help my team. if he speaks as badly about the fans as bradley, i want him gone, and that goes for any of the players. if milton had just kept his stupid big mouth shut, while i do dislike him, i would never have been one of those who was calling for his trade this year and i would not have any issue with him back next year, hoping he produced more runs as the big offensive target he was advertised as being. remember, he didn't have to say anything about the fanbase at all. be complimentary or say nothing. it's not that hard.

 

and also, bradley hating on the fans never turned me against him. i was already against bradley for his performance on the field and in baseball related stuff off the field (the appealed suspension when he wasn't playing anyway, taking himself out of games late in the year), and it was not an action that happened all at one time. his comments just should have made it patently obvious to everyone else he didn't want to be here after less than a season and we should have made it very easy to accomodate him.

[davearm2]

There's no line of behavior that a player could cross that would make having him back out of the question? That can't be right.

 

Sure, if he killed somebody, or raped a chick or something like that I would strongly advise not bringing him back to the team.

Why that's not going to make his teammates hit any worse or forget how to catch the ball etc etc so who cares what he does off the field.

 

Right?

 

Personally, I've been pretty consistent in saying that I draw the line at breaking the law. DUIs, wife beating, PED using, etc...

 

Last I checked, being a dick wasn't illegal.

And jersey cubs fan has been pretty consistent in saying that all of the criticism heaped on Bradley for his attitude and clubhouse demeanor is essentially bogus because has no effect on how his teammates perform on the field, and thus no effect on the Cubs' W-L record.

 

So I'm left to wonder how this other stuff matters, since it seems to me that it too would have no impact on the rest of the team.

[MSG T]

There's no line of behavior that a player could cross that would make having him back out of the question? That can't be right.

 

Sure, if he killed somebody, or raped a chick or something like that I would strongly advise not bringing him back to the team.

Why that's not going to make his teammates hit any worse or forget how to catch the ball etc etc so who cares what he does off the field.

 

Right?

 

Personally, I've been pretty consistent in saying that I draw the line at breaking the law. DUIs, wife beating, PED using, etc...

 

Last I checked, being a dick wasn't illegal.

And jersey cubs fan has been pretty consistent in saying that all of the criticism heaped on Bradley for his attitude and clubhouse demeanor is essentially bogus because has no effect on how his teammates perform on the field, and thus no effect on the Cubs' W-L record.

 

So I'm left to wonder how this other stuff matters, since it seems to me that it too would have no impact on the rest of the team.

 

Because being a dick and not causing your teammates to suck is completely different than committing a felony and not causing your teammates to suck.

 

You really can't see a difference between being an a-hole and killing someone?

Edited December 18, 2009 by MSG T

[Guest]

I get that folks are pissed about how the Bradley situation was handled, but the Silva hate seems more than a little over the top.

 

I don't hate Silva. I hate Hendry at this point, but not Silva. I just don't think Silva has what it takes to be a major league pitcher. I like guys who can miss bats, and he can't do that. Guys consistently make good contact on him and he barely strikes out 4.5 guys per 9 innings.

 

I also think Silva's numbers could end up even worse moving from the AL West to the NL Central.

[Guest]

And jersey cubs fan has been pretty consistent in saying that all of the criticism heaped on Bradley for his attitude and clubhouse demeanor is essentially bogus because has no effect on how his teammates perform on the field, and thus no effect on the Cubs' W-L record.

 

So I'm left to wonder how this other stuff matters, since it seems to me that it too would have no impact on the rest of the team.

 

Barry Bonds has probably been the most hated teammates in the history of the game. Rickey Henderson? Manny Ramirez? These guys played on teams that went to the playoffs. These teams didn't blow up because someone said something not very nice.

 

Zambrano beat up a teammate on national television, which is probably way worse than anything Bradley did. He's still here.

[imb]

why is anyone concerned about how many games bradley might or might not cost us by being a jerk when SILVA ABSOLUTELY SUCKS AND WILL COST US GAMES WITH HIS ACTUAL ON FIELD PLAY

[davearm2]

And jersey cubs fan has been pretty consistent in saying that all of the criticism heaped on Bradley for his attitude and clubhouse demeanor is essentially bogus because has no effect on how his teammates perform on the field, and thus no effect on the Cubs' W-L record.

 

So I'm left to wonder how this other stuff matters, since it seems to me that it too would have no impact on the rest of the team.

 

Because being a dick and not causing your teammates to suck is completely different than committing a felony and not causing your teammates to suck.

 

You really can't see a difference between being an a-hole and killing someone?

In terms of how it impacts one's teammates' ability to hit/pitch/catch/run, no I can't see a difference.

[Guancous]

There would be a lot fewer complaints if it was Kevin Millwood coming back. There's so much Silva outrage because he is much worse at playing baseball than Milton Bradley. We made our pitching staff worse and we still have a gaping hole in the outfield.

[Guest]

In terms of how it impacts one's teammates' ability to hit/pitch/catch/run, no I can't see a difference.

 

Describe one way that Milton Bradley's presence on the Cubs roster would affect Lee's ability to hit (I seem to recall he hit pretty good this year), pitch/catch or run. Describe one way that a professional athlete making millions of dollars would allow their hatred for a teammate to affect his play on the field.

 

Just one.

[CubColtPacer]

This was an awful deal, there's no doubt about it. Hendry manufactured Bradley's low trade value and refused to just hold onto him. But just so people have a better idea of what they're looking at, here's Silva's xFIP the last few years.

 

3.94, 4.81, 4.57, 4.64, 5.53

 

Now nobody is gonna mistake Silva for a decent pitcher; he isn't. But aside from last year, he's been relatively healthy in his career. I wouldn't be surprised to see some Jason Marquis type value out of Silva...

 

I would agree. It's a bad deal regardless. But Silva still has a decent chance of being close to mediocre. And that has value for a starting pitcher.

 

I'm hoping the Cubs will be willing to release him if he struggles and doesn't show any bounce back from last year. That's my biggest worry of the trade that they will give him way too long of a leash.

 

But if he does come back, he could easily be worth 4-5 million per year and a roster spot and the Cubs would have only wasted 6-8 million on this deal. If he doesn't and the Cubs are willing to release him, then they are out 16 million. The biggest problem is if they let him have negative value for most of 2 years clogging up a roster spot.

 

It's definitely a bad trade, but it's how the Cubs handle it that could turn it from bad to absolutely horrible. And Silva has a chance of making it only bad if he can pitch like he has for a decent percentage of his career. His contract is so ridiculous because his upside is mediocre. But he doesn't have a horrible chance of reaching that upside like he has before.

[davearm2]

And jersey cubs fan has been pretty consistent in saying that all of the criticism heaped on Bradley for his attitude and clubhouse demeanor is essentially bogus because has no effect on how his teammates perform on the field, and thus no effect on the Cubs' W-L record.

 

So I'm left to wonder how this other stuff matters, since it seems to me that it too would have no impact on the rest of the team.

 

Barry Bonds has probably been the most hated teammates in the history of the game. Rickey Henderson? Manny Ramirez? These guys played on teams that went to the playoffs. These teams didn't blow up because someone said something not very nice.

 

Zambrano beat up a teammate on national television, which is probably way worse than anything Bradley did. He's still here.

So why is there a line being drawn at illegal behavior, is what I'm asking.

[CUBZ99]

And just when I thought there was no way that Hendry could possibly get any dumber.....

 

This is the last straw for me. I don't see any benefit at all out of this trade, other than to take a decent hitting OF and turn him into one of the worst pitchers in baseball. Silva is going to have us all begging for Jason Marquis back. Hendry went from looking stubborn regarding Bradley, to looking like an idiot. There is no defending this move.

[davearm2]

This was an awful deal, there's no doubt about it. Hendry manufactured Bradley's low trade value and refused to just hold onto him. But just so people have a better idea of what they're looking at, here's Silva's xFIP the last few years.

 

3.94, 4.81, 4.57, 4.64, 5.53

 

Now nobody is gonna mistake Silva for a decent pitcher; he isn't. But aside from last year, he's been relatively healthy in his career. I wouldn't be surprised to see some Jason Marquis type value out of Silva...

 

I would agree. It's a bad deal regardless. But Silva still has a decent chance of being close to mediocre. And that has value for a starting pitcher.

 

I'm hoping the Cubs will be willing to release him if he struggles and doesn't show any bounce back from last year. That's my biggest worry of the trade that they will give him way too long of a leash.

 

But if he does come back, he could easily be worth 4-5 million per year and a roster spot and the Cubs would have only wasted 6-8 million on this deal. If he doesn't and the Cubs are willing to release him, then they are out 16 million. The biggest problem is if they let him have negative value for most of 2 years clogging up a roster spot.

 

It's definitely a bad trade, but it's how the Cubs handle it that could turn it from bad to absolutely horrible. And Silva has a chance of making it only bad if he can pitch like he has for a decent percentage of his career. His contract is so ridiculous because his upside is mediocre. But he doesn't have a horrible chance of reaching that upside like he has before.

The Cubs did cut bait pretty quick on whathisname that came back from Colorado for Marquis.

 

Pretty similar situations there -- the Cubs wound up with a guy they probably didn't want just to be rid of a guy they wanted even less, and they didn't have any qualms about junking him.

[Guest]

And jersey cubs fan has been pretty consistent in saying that all of the criticism heaped on Bradley for his attitude and clubhouse demeanor is essentially bogus because has no effect on how his teammates perform on the field, and thus no effect on the Cubs' W-L record.

 

So I'm left to wonder how this other stuff matters, since it seems to me that it too would have no impact on the rest of the team.

 

Barry Bonds has probably been the most hated teammates in the history of the game. Rickey Henderson? Manny Ramirez? These guys played on teams that went to the playoffs. These teams didn't blow up because someone said something not very nice.

 

Zambrano beat up a teammate on national television, which is probably way worse than anything Bradley did. He's still here.

So why is there a line being drawn at illegal behavior, is what I'm asking.

 

Illegal behavior is just that. Teammates actually forgive that, also. Heck, Michael Vick kills puppies and he's still playing pro sports.

 

The question is how is anything Milton said or did this year affecting the play of his teammates?

 

If I was the starting running back for the Philadelphia Eagles (making the league minimum or 100m dollars, you choose), and they just signed puppy killer to play QB, it would not affect my play on the field. I'd probably flatten his tires in the parking lot everyday on my way home, and I might accidentally use his tooth brush to clean my jockstrap, but it would not change my demeanor on the field.

 

And that's why there was an option of just keeping Bradley. Time heals all wounds, and we had a whole offseason for that. To trade him because you are still mad about last year says more about you than it does Milton Bradley.