Re: College Football - Week of Oct. 31st

[shnsajax]

I know it's unpopular but I still like the 'regular season is a playoff' thing. Though I don't like the BCS system - there's got to be a better way to do it.

 

I'm guessing that the title picture will sort itself out.

 

I just want a 4 team playoff, teams play in bowls like always. Rotate the 4 BCS games each year as the two Semi-Final games, then the 5th as the BCS Championship game. It doesn't require anything different than adding 1 extra week for the teams that win the semi game.

[jersey cubs fan]

a half empty Cotton Bowl for a #1 Florida vs #16 Ga Tech quarterfinal game would make for some depressing Cotton Bowl officials

 

I don't think there's a chance it'd be half empty. If Ole MIss/Texas Tech in a meaningless game could pull 88,000, then Florida/Ga Tech for a chance to advance to the semi-finals of the playoffs would draw that many or more.

 

That's a home game for somebody. You don't need to get 30,000+ from each side to travel thousands of miles, get hotels and pay for a more expensive than usual game ticket. Fans go to bowls as one off events, they will not go to multiple venues like they are following the Dead on tour.

 

I think you could get away with a 4 team tourny with 2 bowls in which the winners face off in a championship game. But there's no way you are going to get fans to three seperate games in a multi-team playoff. It would have to be home games, which would be the end of major bowls.

[dew1679666265]

a half empty Cotton Bowl for a #1 Florida vs #16 Ga Tech quarterfinal game would make for some depressing Cotton Bowl officials

 

I don't think there's a chance it'd be half empty. If Ole MIss/Texas Tech in a meaningless game could pull 88,000, then Florida/Ga Tech for a chance to advance to the semi-finals of the playoffs would draw that many or more.

 

That's a home game for somebody. You don't need to get 30,000+ from each side to travel thousands of miles, get hotels and pay for a more expensive than usual game ticket. Fans go to bowls as one off events, they will not go to multiple venues like they are following the Dead on tour.

 

I think you could get away with a 4 team tourny with 2 bowls in which the winners face off in a championship game. But there's no way you are going to get fans to three seperate games in a multi-team playoff. It would have to be home games, which would be the end of major bowls.

 

You can get 20,000+ fans for regular season road games without an issue. The SEC Championship game two years ago had half the Superdome filled up with Vol fans who made the trip. There is no doubt in my mind you could get 20-30 thousand fans from each side to travel to each game plus another 10-20 thousand local fans (both fans and non-fans) to come out to a game.

 

There would also be little reason to make fans travel from Florida to Texas. Keep the games more regionalized (similarly to the regions in the basketball tournament) and the issues with getting fans out would be far less. For instance, put the hypothetical Florida/Ga Tech game in the Georgia Dome and fans would flock to it. Or if you want less of a home game, put them in the Superdome and the fans would still turn out in droves.

 

If fans will travel in the regular season, they'll travel in the postseason as well.

[dew1679666265]

a half empty Cotton Bowl for a #1 Florida vs #16 Ga Tech quarterfinal game would make for some depressing Cotton Bowl officials

 

I don't think there's a chance it'd be half empty. If Ole MIss/Texas Tech in a meaningless game could pull 88,000, then Florida/Ga Tech for a chance to advance to the semi-finals of the playoffs would draw that many or more.

 

Bowls are events. It's the final game of the year, it's an exotic locale, it "means something" even if it really doesn't. Do you think a lot of NFL fans spend money to go see their team on the road in the divisional playoffs?

 

Outside of the BCS championship game, the bowls have no meaning. If the bowls were tied into a championship run, they would immediately gain far more relevance than they currently have. Most bowl sites right now are only partially full because they don't mean anything.

 

And I don't know how to check the numbers on something like this, but I expect that there were 20,000+ Ravens fans who showed up at the Titans playoff game last year.

[SouthSideRyan]

a half empty Cotton Bowl for a #1 Florida vs #16 Ga Tech quarterfinal game would make for some depressing Cotton Bowl officials

 

I don't think there's a chance it'd be half empty. If Ole MIss/Texas Tech in a meaningless game could pull 88,000, then Florida/Ga Tech for a chance to advance to the semi-finals of the playoffs would draw that many or more.

 

That's a home game for somebody. You don't need to get 30,000+ from each side to travel thousands of miles, get hotels and pay for a more expensive than usual game ticket. Fans go to bowls as one off events, they will not go to multiple venues like they are following the Dead on tour.

 

I think you could get away with a 4 team tourny with 2 bowls in which the winners face off in a championship game. But there's no way you are going to get fans to three seperate games in a multi-team playoff. It would have to be home games, which would be the end of major bowls.

 

You can get 20,000+ fans for regular season road games without an issue. The SEC Championship game two years ago had half the Superdome filled up with Vol fans who made the trip. There is no doubt in my mind you could get 20-30 thousand fans from each side to travel to each game plus another 10-20 thousand local fans (both fans and non-fans) to come out to a game.

 

There would also be little reason to make fans travel from Florida to Texas. Keep the games more regionalized (similarly to the regions in the basketball tournament) and the issues with getting fans out would be far less. For instance, put the hypothetical Florida/Ga Tech game in the Georgia Dome and fans would flock to it. Or if you want less of a home game, put them in the Superdome and the fans would still turn out in droves.

 

If fans will travel in the regular season, they'll travel in the postseason as well.

 

And if the tourney breaks down to an Ohio St./Boise St. 1st round game?

 

Are you going to shift teams' seeding around to get close geographical matchups? Are you going to keep 20 stadiums on call in case you need to have a game there for closeness sake?

[dew1679666265]

And if the tourney breaks down to an Ohio St./Boise St. 1st round game?

 

Are you going to shift teams' seeding around to get close geographical matchups? Are you going to keep 20 stadiums on call in case you need to have a game there for closeness sake?

 

There are many different ways you could set it up, I'm just throwing some options out there. I don't see any reason why fans would travel for a meaningless game and not travel for a game that means something.

[manbearcub]

a half empty Cotton Bowl for a #1 Florida vs #16 Ga Tech quarterfinal game would make for some depressing Cotton Bowl officials

 

I don't think there's a chance it'd be half empty. If Ole MIss/Texas Tech in a meaningless game could pull 88,000, then Florida/Ga Tech for a chance to advance to the semi-finals of the playoffs would draw that many or more.

 

Bowls are events. It's the final game of the year, it's an exotic locale, it "means something" even if it really doesn't. Do you think a lot of NFL fans spend money to go see their team on the road in the divisional playoffs?

 

Outside of the BCS championship game, the bowls have no meaning. If the bowls were tied into a championship run, they would immediately gain far more relevance than they currently have. Most bowl sites right now are only partially full because they don't mean anything.

Sorry, but the Rose Bowl has meaning. The Rose Bowl, Big Ten, and Pac Ten wouldn't go for it.

[jersey cubs fan]

And if the tourney breaks down to an Ohio St./Boise St. 1st round game?

 

Are you going to shift teams' seeding around to get close geographical matchups? Are you going to keep 20 stadiums on call in case you need to have a game there for closeness sake?

 

There are many different ways you could set it up, I'm just throwing some options out there. I don't see any reason why fans would travel for a meaningless game and not travel for a game that means something.

 

Big bowl games still matter. Tell the Rose Bowl participants and the fans who travel there they don't matter if it's not for the NC. You go to the Orange Bowl and win and it's a really big deal.

 

The SEC Championship game isn't a good comp either. The fact that fans travel to road games is meaningless. A bowl game is a different beast. They need to put butts in seats en masse, and it just won't happen if it's a big tourny where you are sending them across the nation three weeks in a row. Fans will not travel to three consecutive locales as their team advances. NFL games sell out because one of them is a home game. If you talk about one game before a NC, then you can probably swing it. Fans will have a month to plan knowing exactly where that first game will be and exactly where the 2nd game will be if they win. But if you add a third round, the only way you can swing it is by giving the Gulf Coast/SoCal teams a home game every bowl season and then you run into even bigger problems of fairness. It's tough enough for a Big Ten or Big East or one of the northern Big 12/Pac to go into a bowl game where they are almost always at some sort of away team disadvantage. But then you add on the difficulty of having to play 3 such road games, while their competition likely maintains a significant home field advantage and it becomes a mess.

 

Send Iowa or Notre Dame fans somewhere in Florida to play the Gators, have them get by them and then go play USC in Pasedena, then if they win there they get to play LSU in the Super dome? Even if it's not that drastic of an example, every southern team will have a huge advantage. If you disregard the north/south thing, you really think you are going to get a ton of Florida fans to watch their team play in Florida, then travel to California for another game with plans on attending the next in Arizona? It's just not going to happen.

 

The only way it works with a big tourny is if you seed teams and give them a home game, which eliminates the bowl system entirely.

 

The 4-team playoff is the only realistic way to incorporate the bowls with a NC game.

[SpongeWorthy]

The idealist in me says get rid of the bowl games altogether and build a viable playoff system from the ground up. I wouldn't miss it and within 10 years people would laugh at the quaint way things were done. Then the last people bloviating about the old days would die off and we could laugh harder.

 

On the other hand I don't think the logistics are that big of an obstacle to make an 8 team playoff work within the existing bowl system. Like the playoffs wouldn't make money and get huge numbers? There's enough money in the system to compensate bowl operators for lost revenues and it'd probably be made up when the other bowl games were given an extra premium for becoming TRULY meaningful games themselves. You could always rotate the bigger bowl games so everyone had a fair shot at the big semifinal/final games.

 

The argument that it would diminish the meaning of the regular season is valid but hardly a deciding factor. If you incorporated seeding or even a home game the regular season would still be very, very important. In fact it would still be, by far, the most important regular season of any major sport.

 

It wouldn't be a frictionless process to switch to a playoff but that's no reason to stick with a bad idea.

[SpongeWorthy]

goony raises a good point about teams in the Midwest/Northeast having to play what would essentially amount to 3 road games in order to play for the NC. But I think if you built a playoff system you could easily get someone to sponsor a new bowl at Lucas Oil, Ford Field, the Metrodome, etc. to serve as venues.

[dew1679666265]

Big bowl games still matter. Tell the Rose Bowl participants and the fans who travel there they don't matter if it's not for the NC. You go to the Orange Bowl and win and it's a really big deal.

 

It might be a big deal for the fans, but it's overall meaningless. I get excited just like the next fan when Tennessee wins a bowl game, but that doesn't mean I think the win meant anything at all. It's an exhibition game at the end of the season. It's nice to see your team win and it probably helps recruiting, but that's about all it means.

 

The SEC Championship game isn't a good comp either. The fact that fans travel to road games is meaningless. A bowl game is a different beast. They need to put butts in seats en masse, and it just won't happen if it's a big tourny where you are sending them across the nation three weeks in a row. Fans will not travel to three consecutive locales as their team advances. NFL games sell out because one of them is a home game. If you talk about one game before a NC, then you can probably swing it. Fans will have a month to plan knowing exactly where that first game will be and exactly where the 2nd game will be if they win. But if you add a third round, the only way you can swing it is by giving the Gulf Coast/SoCal teams a home game every bowl season and then you run into even bigger problems of fairness. It's tough enough for a Big Ten or Big East or one of the northern Big 12/Pac to go into a bowl game where they are almost always at some sort of away team disadvantage. But then you add on the difficulty of having to play 3 such road games, while their competition likely maintains a significant home field advantage and it becomes a mess.

 

Regular season games with SEC teams regularly sell 20,000 to 30,000 visiting tickets. I know Tennessee sold its entire allotment to the last couple of west coast trips with ease. There are 100,000 fans who pack numerous stadiums every Saturday. It's going to be tough for me to believe you couldn't find 20,000 or 30,000 people to travel three times to the biggest games of the year.

 

There's no question the Motor City bowl and others like it would get much better attendance than they do now.

 

Send Iowa or Notre Dame fans somewhere in Florida to play the Gators, have them get by them and then go play USC in Pasedena, then if they win there they get to play LSU in the Super dome? Even if it's not that drastic of an example, every southern team will have a huge advantage. If you disregard the north/south thing, you really think you are going to get a ton of Florida fans to watch their team play in Florida, then travel to California for another game with plans on attending the next in Arizona? It's just not going to happen.

 

The logistics would have to be properly worked out and it wouldn't be a seamless transition, but if they really wanted to make it work, they could. 1-AA already makes it work, I think it'd work out fine on a grander scale as well.

 

The only way it works with a big tourny is if you seed teams and give them a home game, which eliminates the bowl system entirely.

 

The 4-team playoff is the only realistic way to incorporate the bowls with a NC game.

 

I'd be ok with either of those.

[dew1679666265]

goony raises a good point about teams in the Midwest/Northeast having to play what would essentially amount to 3 road games in order to play for the NC. But I think if you built a playoff system you could easily get someone to sponsor a new bowl at Lucas Oil, Ford Field, the Metrodome, etc. to serve as venues.

 

Right, and there are also bowl games currently played in Detroit and D.C.

 

I do agree that logistics would be an issue, but it's not something that should just eliminate the possibility altogether.

[TruffleShuffle]

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/news/story?id=4604484

[jersey cubs fan]

Regular season games with SEC teams regularly sell 20,000 to 30,000 visiting tickets. I know Tennessee sold its entire allotment to the last couple of west coast trips with ease. There are 100,000 fans who pack numerous stadiums every Saturday. It's going to be tough for me to believe you couldn't find 20,000 or 30,000 people to travel three times to the biggest games of the year.

 

 

Regular season SEC games are a meaningless comparison, as are regular season Big Ten or other conference games. Having Alabama go to Florida isn't the same thing as having Penn State go to Pasadena or Washington go to Miami, let alone trying to get a team like Boise State or Utah to travel with a crowd to multipe post season destinations. First off, regular season games are scheduled far in advance and you know exactly where you will be each week. A multi-tier playoff system will involve multiple destinations where people will not know where they are going until a week in advance, and it will be much longer than typical in conference road games. And you are still selling the vast majority of those tickets to the home crowd, that doesn't work in the bowls. The only way to sell-out is to grant a de facto home game to the select few teams who have the advantage of being in warm weather and near a preferred destination.

 

You cannot incorporate bowls into a deep playoff system. It will never work. 4 team tourney with 2 bowls and a predetermined NC site probably would, but not an 8 team, and absolutely not a 16 team field. Still, in the end you are still going to have the same people whining about the 9th team that didn't get included or the 17th team that got left out. That crap happens every march for a freaking 65 team tourny.

 

 

And your definition of meaningless is silly. Every game played is meaningless under your definition. What's meaningful is people getting the enjoyment out of going to, playing in, and winning these bowl games. The weed eater bowl might not matter much, but the big bowls absolutely do matter to everybody involved.

[jersey cubs fan]

goony raises a good point about teams in the Midwest/Northeast having to play what would essentially amount to 3 road games in order to play for the NC. But I think if you built a playoff system you could easily get someone to sponsor a new bowl at Lucas Oil, Ford Field, the Metrodome, etc. to serve as venues.

 

Right, and there are also bowl games currently played in Detroit and D.C.

 

I do agree that logistics would be an issue, but it's not something that should just eliminate the possibility altogether.

 

those bowl games aren't in the discussion. The big ones are what matter.

[SpongeWorthy]

Whatever bowl game becomes a national quarter or semifinal game automatically becomes a big one.

[dew1679666265]

Whatever bowl game becomes a national quarter or semifinal game automatically becomes a big one.

 

Exactly. Bowl games that are minor now become huge if it hosts a first round playoff game, much less a quarter or semifinal.

[SouthSideRyan]

I can only imagine the teeth gnashing from Pete Carroll when he gets sent to Detroit for his quarterfinal matchup.

[dew1679666265]

Regular season SEC games are a meaningless comparison, as are regular season Big Ten or other conference games. Having Alabama go to Florida isn't the same thing as having Penn State go to Pasadena or Washington go to Miami, let alone trying to get a team like Boise State or Utah to travel with a crowd to multipe post season destinations. First off, regular season games are scheduled far in advance and you know exactly where you will be each week. A multi-tier playoff system will involve multiple destinations where people will not know where they are going until a week in advance, and it will be much longer than typical in conference road games. And you are still selling the vast majority of those tickets to the home crowd, that doesn't work in the bowls. The only way to sell-out is to grant a de facto home game to the select few teams who have the advantage of being in warm weather and near a preferred destination.

 

I meant cross country games that involve an SEC team - hence me bringing up the Tennessee trips to the west coast the last two years. And the games don't necessarily have to sell out - that'd actually be a huge improvement over what a lot of the bowls are doing now.

 

And why can't you set up a bracket that includes where each bowl game will be? For instance, in late November/early December you set it up so that say Florida/Ga Tech will play in the Outback Bowl in the first round and Tennessee/North Carolina will play in the Music City Bowl. The two winners will then advance to play each other the next week in the Peach Bowl. Most, if not all, of the playoff could be set up no later than early December each year - thus giving no less than 2-3 weeks notice for people who want to go to a game. It wouldn't be plenty of time, but it'd be enough time for people to plan for which playoff game they wanted to attend. It'd be no less time than people have now.

 

You cannot incorporate bowls into a deep playoff system. It will never work. 4 team tourney with 2 bowls and a predetermined NC site probably would, but not an 8 team, and absolutely not a 16 team field. Still, in the end you are still going to have the same people whining about the 9th team that didn't get included or the 17th team that got left out. That crap happens every march for a freaking 65 team tourny.

 

We know this how? There have been people and magazines that have laid out some potential playoff systems and, while they may have had some issues, they were overall pretty feasible and they incorporated the bowls. It could be done, it'd just take some work.

 

And your definition of meaningless is silly. Every game played is meaningless under your definition. What's meaningful is people getting the enjoyment out of going to, playing in, and winning these bowl games. The weed eater bowl might not matter much, but the big bowls absolutely do matter to everybody involved.

 

It's meaningful to individual fans of each team, but that's it. The history of each bowl means nothing, nor does who won each game the past however many years. People remember playoff games because they mean something, they don't remember bowl games unless their own team was in it. And even then it's hit or miss.

 

And by your definition, why doesn't the weed eater bowl mean anything? The bowls don't decide anything - outside of the BCS championship game. All they are is an exhibition that it's neat to see your team win.

[jersey cubs fan]

you guys are missing the point.

 

The question was raised about why wouldn't the current bowl hosts be happy to take part in something like this. The answer is because it would destroy the bowl games that matter. The Rose, Sugar, Orange, Fiesta bowls would cease to exist if they went to a multi-tier playoff. Sure people who plan a generic bowl would love to be a part of a major tournament, because they don't currently matter, but that was not the question. But it wouldn't work for the big guys. They would no longer get a team and their fans coming for a week with the sole purpose of enjoying that bowl game. Now, if you take the current system, with 4 major bowls and a NC game at one of those sites a week later, and tweak it so that each year 2 bowls are designated for the top 4 and the winners play the NC game a week later, then they'd probably be on board.

[shnsajax]

a half empty Cotton Bowl for a #1 Florida vs #16 Ga Tech quarterfinal game would make for some depressing Cotton Bowl officials

 

I don't think there's a chance it'd be half empty. If Ole MIss/Texas Tech in a meaningless game could pull 88,000, then Florida/Ga Tech for a chance to advance to the semi-finals of the playoffs would draw that many or more.

 

Bowls are events. It's the final game of the year, it's an exotic locale, it "means something" even if it really doesn't. Do you think a lot of NFL fans spend money to go see their team on the road in the divisional playoffs?

 

Outside of the BCS championship game, the bowls have no meaning. If the bowls were tied into a championship run, they would immediately gain far more relevance than they currently have. Most bowl sites right now are only partially full because they don't mean anything.

Sorry, but the Rose Bowl has meaning. The Rose Bowl, Big Ten, and Pac Ten wouldn't go for it.

 

Neither should have an opinion until they both decide to add a Conference Championship at the end of the regular season.

[dew1679666265]

you guys are missing the point.

 

The question was raised about why wouldn't the current bowl hosts be happy to take part in something like this. The answer is because it would destroy the bowl games that matter. The Rose, Sugar, Orange, Fiesta bowls would cease to exist if they went to a multi-tier playoff. Sure people who plan a generic bowl would love to be a part of a major tournament, because they don't currently matter, but that was not the question. But it wouldn't work for the big guys. They would no longer get a team and their fans coming for a week with the sole purpose of enjoying that bowl game. Now, if you take the current system, with 4 major bowls and a NC game at one of those sites a week later, and tweak it so that each year 2 bowls are designated for the top 4 and the winners play the NC game a week later, then they'd probably be on board.

 

I see what you're saying here and it's true that the big bowls wouldn't be on board. A playoff system could work, but I don't think it will be implemented.

 

Like I said earlier, I'd be ok with a 4-team system, but it's not my preference.

[jersey cubs fan]

Dew how do you not see the difference between a road game planned years in advance and a last minute bowl trip? Seriously, give me a break with the SEC road game nonsense.

[jersey cubs fan]

Neither should have an opinion until they both decide to add a Conference Championship at the end of the regular season.

 

Those games are the dumbest thing about college football.

[Guest]

I don't think there's a chance it'd be half empty. If Ole MIss/Texas Tech in a meaningless game could pull 88,000, then Florida/Ga Tech for a chance to advance to the semi-finals of the playoffs would draw that many or more.

 

Bowls are events. It's the final game of the year, it's an exotic locale, it "means something" even if it really doesn't. Do you think a lot of NFL fans spend money to go see their team on the road in the divisional playoffs?

 

Outside of the BCS championship game, the bowls have no meaning. If the bowls were tied into a championship run, they would immediately gain far more relevance than they currently have. Most bowl sites right now are only partially full because they don't mean anything.

Sorry, but the Rose Bowl has meaning. The Rose Bowl, Big Ten, and Pac Ten wouldn't go for it.

 

Neither should have an opinion until they both decide to add a Conference Championship at the end of the regular season.

 

Pac-10 doesn't need a conference championship since each team in the conference actually plays every other team.