Angels acquire Kazmir from Rays for minor leaguers

[javy knows my name]

He's going to be injured the rest of his career, I feel. The return stinks, but the downside (paying a guy 8, then $11MM to rehab/suck) is too great for a small market team.

[RedFlash]

Buster Olney on BBTN just announced that it will be two prospects and a PTBNL for Scott Kazmir. It's a done deal.

[TruffleShuffle]

salary dump.

[RedFlash]

salary dump.

 

Not so much a salary dump as a reallocation of their limited monetary means. I think they are going to take the money from Kazmir and put it into re-signing Crawford.

[Iceblink]

Wonder who the PTBNL is. If it were to remotely even out the player values, it'd have to be quite a player.

[Keener98]

Alex Torres and Matt Sweeney are the 2 minor leaguers going to Tampa. Not sure who the PTBNL is but Madden sounds excited about him.

 

“We’re very excited about the player that we can’t name yet, but also about the other two,” Rays manager Joe Maddon said. “The lefty has a great arm, and Sweeney is one of the best hitters in the minors.”

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-angels-raystrade&prov=ap&type=lgns

[Grit amp Heart]

probably rodriguez, perhaps o'sullivan or wood

[Illini Iceman]

Alex Torres and Matt Sweeney are the 2 minor leaguers going to Tampa. Not sure who the PTBNL is but Madden sounds excited about him.

 

“We’re very excited about the player that we can’t name yet, but also about the other two,” Rays manager Joe Maddon said. “The lefty has a great arm, and Sweeney is one of the best hitters in the minors.”

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-angels-raystrade&prov=ap&type=lgns

 

Joe Madden always sounds excited about everyone. The PTBL could be the Vladimir Guerrero's grandmother and he would say she has great genes and will bring a lot of leadership to the clubhouse.

 

He has to privately be pretty down about this. Trading away one of their top starters when they are only a few games out of wild card contention? Boston is adding guys left and right and the Rays are giving away one of their front line starters for prospects?

 

If they hadn't signed Pat Burrell they wouldn't have had to lose this salary. People complain about Bradley with the Cubs, but Burrell has been even worse. Having to deal two young lefty starters like Edwin Jackson and Scott Kazmir and getting the return they have is pretty disappointing.

[Halman]

People complain about Bradley with the Cubs, but Burrell has been even worse.

 

Nothing is worse than Bradley. He's worse than Jimmy Carter. History's greatest monster.

[Donzo1679666396]

Good move by the Rays!...

 

I live here in Ray country and know the situation very well--- The Rays didn't trade the Kaz of 04-07, the guy with great stuff & a cheap contract.... The current version of Kaz has OK stuff, awful control & a fat contract... Considering the Ray's financial situation & their sick farm system, good move Rays.... Hello Wade Davis!

 

On Edwin Jackson-- for the Rays he was a guy that had great stuff, marginal success & was going into his last year before free agency... The Rays still had all five starters from their World Series team with Price & Niemann looking for spots... So, like with the Kaz trade, trading Jackson was a good business decision for the Rays.

[Donzo1679666396]

He's going to be injured the rest of his career, I feel. The return stinks, but the downside (paying a guy 8, then $11MM to rehab/suck) is too great for a small market team.

 

+1

[Illini Iceman]

Good move by the Rays!...

 

I live here in Ray country and know the situation very well--- The Rays didn't trade the Kaz of 04-07, the guy with great stuff & a cheap contract.... The current version of Kaz has OK stuff, awful control & a fat contract... Considering the Ray's financial situation & their sick farm system, good move Rays.... Hello Wade Davis!

 

On Edwin Jackson-- for the Rays he was a guy that had great stuff, marginal success & was going into his last year before free agency... The Rays still had all five starters from their World Series team with Price & Niemann looking for spots... So, like with the Kaz trade, trading Jackson was a good business decision for the Rays.

 

Yay, trade one of your starters for prospects in the middle of a pennant race. Baseball fever, catch it! I also live in "Ray country" and the reason it really isn't Ray country is because fans in general have no faith in management's commitment to build a winner. Be awful long enough and accumulate the high draft picks and every so often a window will open where you can be competitive like they are now. Don't squander the window by trading core players before the window closes for more prospects (and not even elite ones at that). Fine, trade Edwin Jackson if he is year from free agency if you can get some good value for him, but Matt Joyce? Combine that with being too cheap to sign your first or second round draft picks and it is really not the recipe to compete with Boston and the Yankees.

[Keener98]

Good move by the Rays!...

 

I live here in Ray country and know the situation very well--- The Rays didn't trade the Kaz of 04-07, the guy with great stuff & a cheap contract.... The current version of Kaz has OK stuff, awful control & a fat contract... Considering the Ray's financial situation & their sick farm system, good move Rays.... Hello Wade Davis!

 

On Edwin Jackson-- for the Rays he was a guy that had great stuff, marginal success & was going into his last year before free agency... The Rays still had all five starters from their World Series team with Price & Niemann looking for spots... So, like with the Kaz trade, trading Jackson was a good business decision for the Rays.

 

Yay, trade one of your starters for prospects in the middle of a pennant race. Baseball fever, catch it! I also live in "Ray country" and the reason it really isn't Ray country is because fans in general have no faith in management's commitment to build a winner. Be awful long enough and accumulate the high draft picks and every so often a window will open where you can be competitive like they are now. Don't squander the window by trading core players before the window closes for more prospects (and not even elite ones at that). Fine, trade Edwin Jackson if he is year from free agency if you can get some good value for him, but Matt Joyce? Combine that with being too cheap to sign your first or second round draft picks and it is really not the recipe to compete with Boston and the Yankees.

 

According to Rob Neyer, their playoff chances went from 10% to 8% by replacing Kazmir with Wade Davis. If you can only lose 2% and gain 3 talented young players, youd be a fool not to make this deal. Its a good move by the Rays, and also a good move by Anaheim.

 

Rob Neyer at ESPN says the Rays' rotation shuffle from Kazmir to Wade Davis cuts their playoff chances from 10 percent to 8 percent and opines, "Giving up two percent in exchange for three talented young players ... well, on paper that's a move you'd be thrilled to make, every day of the week."

[Illini Iceman]

Good move by the Rays!...

 

I live here in Ray country and know the situation very well--- The Rays didn't trade the Kaz of 04-07, the guy with great stuff & a cheap contract.... The current version of Kaz has OK stuff, awful control & a fat contract... Considering the Ray's financial situation & their sick farm system, good move Rays.... Hello Wade Davis!

 

On Edwin Jackson-- for the Rays he was a guy that had great stuff, marginal success & was going into his last year before free agency... The Rays still had all five starters from their World Series team with Price & Niemann looking for spots... So, like with the Kaz trade, trading Jackson was a good business decision for the Rays.

 

Yay, trade one of your starters for prospects in the middle of a pennant race. Baseball fever, catch it! I also live in "Ray country" and the reason it really isn't Ray country is because fans in general have no faith in management's commitment to build a winner. Be awful long enough and accumulate the high draft picks and every so often a window will open where you can be competitive like they are now. Don't squander the window by trading core players before the window closes for more prospects (and not even elite ones at that). Fine, trade Edwin Jackson if he is year from free agency if you can get some good value for him, but Matt Joyce? Combine that with being too cheap to sign your first or second round draft picks and it is really not the recipe to compete with Boston and the Yankees.

 

According to Rob Neyer, their playoff chances went from 10% to 8% by replacing Kazmir with Wade Davis. If you can only lose 2% and gain 3 talented young players, youd be a fool not to make this deal. Its a good move by the Rays, and also a good move by Anaheim.

 

Rob Neyer at ESPN says the Rays' rotation shuffle from Kazmir to Wade Davis cuts their playoff chances from 10 percent to 8 percent and opines, "Giving up two percent in exchange for three talented young players ... well, on paper that's a move you'd be thrilled to make, every day of the week."

 

Meh - there is only a month left so you could make the argument that any contender trading one player from their team is not going to reduce their chances by much. Maybe Wade Davis will be OK but he has never pitched at the big league level so it is far from a sure thing.

[Backtobanks]

People complain about Bradley with the Cubs, but Burrell has been even worse.

 

Nothing is worse than Bradley. He's worse than Jimmy Carter. History's greatest monster.

 

Adolph Hitler says hi.

[erik316wttn]

People complain about Bradley with the Cubs, but Burrell has been even worse.

 

Nothing is worse than Bradley. He's worse than Jimmy Carter. History's greatest monster.

 

Adolph Hitler says hi.

 

Simpsons reference that you missed, dude.

[TruffleShuffle]

People complain about Bradley with the Cubs, but Burrell has been even worse.

 

Nothing is worse than Bradley. He's worse than Jimmy Carter. History's greatest monster.

 

Adolph Hitler says hi.

 

adolf

[Donzo1679666396]

Yay, trade one of your starters for prospects in the middle of a pennant race. Baseball fever, catch it! I also live in "Ray country" and the reason it really isn't Ray country is because fans in general have no faith in management's commitment to build a winner.

 

Be awful long enough and accumulate the high draft picks and every so often a window will open where you can be competitive like they are now. Don't squander the window by trading core players before the window closes for more prospects (and not even elite ones at that). Fine, trade Edwin Jackson if he is year from free agency if you can get some good value for him, but Matt Joyce?

 

Combine that with being too cheap to sign your first or second round draft picks and it is really not the recipe to compete with Boston and the Yankees.

 

Wow--- With all due respect. you're way off base with your rant here. I totally understand a casual fan having that type of response. I'm much more of casual fan nowadays myself... But, with over 2,000 posts here on northside, you're no casual fan... Fact is Ray's management has already built a winner. Their formula is to continually build through the farm system, practice financial responsibility, be financially aggressive when prospects emerge as players in the majors & leverage other assets( players) into more prospects.

 

Again, complaining about the the Jackson trade is a 20/20 hindsight thing & ignores the financial end of it. Both Jackson & Joyce have a lot of talent, but their production had been so-so going into this season. Jackson busted out this year, his FREE AGENT year- good for him. Joyce is still developing as a YEAR ONE major leaguer--- good business decision that has worked out better for Detroit this year. Now, will Detroit give him a 60 mil contract? ... Trading Kaz was the opposite of "squandering" core players. The trade now puts the Rays in financial position to retain Crawford & extend either Garza or Bartlett...

 

These type of trades will continue for the Rays, & they will be good smart trades.,, Next up will probably be Upton. The Rays have Perez & Jennings ready to take his spot. In 20011, I could see Shields going. The Ray will have prospects like Barnes & Moore ready to take his spot. That's if Hellickson or McGee don't move in on him in 2010.... So forth & so on.

 

Complaining about the Rays being "cheap" for not signing their top two picks this year is just silly... As I'm sure you know, the Rays will now get comp picks next year for not signing those picks- for their draft position, it's not a loss... The one thing the Rays have done well from the beginning is sign their draft picks with a very good track record of signing the right ones- They go over slot on 2-3 guys almost every year. This year they did it with 5 or 6 guys with the money they saved on their fisrt two picks.

 

BTW, Tampa isn't Ray country- Tampa has too much beech envy to embrace anything in Pinellas county-- lol... Really, the whole fan thing is the same as it is with all the pro teams in Tampa Bay. Florida is a transient state-- people from other states move here & bring their allegiances with them. Like with the Bucs & Lightning, winning for awhile will take care of most of that.

[Illini Iceman]

Yay, trade one of your starters for prospects in the middle of a pennant race. Baseball fever, catch it! I also live in "Ray country" and the reason it really isn't Ray country is because fans in general have no faith in management's commitment to build a winner.

 

Be awful long enough and accumulate the high draft picks and every so often a window will open where you can be competitive like they are now. Don't squander the window by trading core players before the window closes for more prospects (and not even elite ones at that). Fine, trade Edwin Jackson if he is year from free agency if you can get some good value for him, but Matt Joyce?

 

Combine that with being too cheap to sign your first or second round draft picks and it is really not the recipe to compete with Boston and the Yankees.

 

Wow--- With all due respect. you're way off base with your rant here. I totally understand a casual fan having that type of response. I'm much more of casual fan nowadays myself... But, with over 2,000 posts here on northside, you're no casual fan... Fact is Ray's management has already built a winner. Their formula is to continually build through the farm system, practice financial responsibility, be financially aggressive when prospects emerge as players in the majors & leverage other assets( players) into more prospects.

 

Again, complaining about the the Jackson trade is a 20/20 hindsight thing & ignores the financial end of it. Both Jackson & Joyce have a lot of talent, but their production had been so-so going into this season. Jackson busted out this year, his FREE AGENT year- good for him. Joyce is still developing as a YEAR ONE major leaguer--- good business decision that has worked out better for Detroit this year. Now, will Detroit give him a 60 mil contract? ... Trading Kaz was the opposite of "squandering" core players. The trade now puts the Rays in financial position to retain Crawford & extend either Garza or Bartlett...

 

These type of trades will continue for the Rays, & they will be good smart trades.,, Next up will probably be Upton. The Rays have Perez & Jennings ready to take his spot. In 20011, I could see Shields going. The Ray will have prospects like Barnes & Moore ready to take his spot. That's if Hellickson or McGee don't move in on him in 2010.... So forth & so on.

 

Complaining about the Rays being "cheap" for not signing their top two picks this year is just silly... As I'm sure you know, the Rays will now get comp picks next year for not signing those picks- for their draft position, it's not a loss... The one thing the Rays have done well from the beginning is sign their draft picks with a very good track record of signing the right ones- They go over slot on 2-3 guys almost every year. This year they did it with 5 or 6 guys with the money they saved on their fisrt two picks.

 

BTW, Tampa isn't Ray country- Tampa has too much beech envy to embrace anything in Pinellas county-- lol... Really, the whole fan thing is the same as it is with all the pro teams in Tampa Bay. Florida is a transient state-- people from other states move here & bring their allegiances with them. Like with the Bucs & Lightning, winning for awhile will take care of most of that.

 

Building through the farm system is fine but if you don't want to become the Montreal Expos then you need to build through your farm until you have a core that can be competitive and then ride that core for the window of opportunity and start over. You can't continue yearly trading off your top players for prospects or you continue a vicious cycle where you never are quite good enough to win.

 

If you love the Kazmir trade and the mediocre return that's fine (btw - I love how Neyer says they got three talented players when he doesn't even know who the PTBNL is) but how can Rays management then defend the Burrell signing? That seemed to indicate they were going for it now. To reverse course on that because they are 3 games out of the wildcard with a month to go is a bit odd.

 

I guess you are joking with the whole "beech" envy Hillsborough vs Piniellas fan issue. But bottom line is that in this sized market if you are going to try to be successful with just half the bay area it is losing proposition. I don't know if I am a casual fan or not (probably yes for the Rays and no for the Cubs) but like it or not casual fans are what fills the seats on a nightly basis. To all casual fans this looks like a) they are giving up for the season and b) they are going back to the cheap Naimoli days. Both of those will keep some casual fans away and clearly there are not enough hard core fans to fill the building.

 

For me the key is the return. If they could convince me they got high level prospects to make the move then roll the dice and deal with the perceptions. However, as far as I can tell this was no great haul (not even one top 10 Angels prospect) so how much better did they really make themselves? I find it hard to believe that in the offseason they could't get bigger market teams in a bidding war to add a solid 2-3 caliber lefty starter who is only 25.

[Halman]

Next up will probably be Upton. The Rays have Perez & Jennings ready to take his spot.

 

Can the cubs be the team to get on that action? :beg:

[illiniguy]

Wait, am I the only one who thinks B.J. Upton sucks. And pretty hard at that? Sure, I'll take Justin, but I want no part of B.J. on the Cubs.

[A-Cal]

Wait, am I the only one who thinks B.J. Upton sucks. And pretty hard at that? Sure, I'll take Justin, but I want no part of B.J. on the Cubs.

 

he is a moody little punk...i see milton bradley in his future

[illiniguy]

Wait, am I the only one who thinks B.J. Upton sucks. And pretty hard at that? Sure, I'll take Justin, but I want no part of B.J. on the Cubs.

 

he is a moody little punk...i see milton bradley in his future

No, Milton is like 1000x the hitter B/J will ever be. So he will be Milton while hitting at a Corey Patterson level. I think I'll pass.

[Vanilla Ice]

If Upton could hit like Milton and play CF, I would be all over it.

[illiniguy]

If Upton could hit like Milton and play CF, I would be all over it.

Yeah, but if he could do that, Tampa wouldn't be trying to move him.