Selig reconsidering Pete Rose

[shnsajax]

Interesting. With the "Steriod" era now having taken place, I guess its good to at least review everything here. With what I currently know I am in the place of wanting Rose in the HOF but that could change with any new evidence on what he did.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4358260

[hotshot13422]

I want him in

[erik316wttn]

I want him in

 

I'd at least consider it. If he ever is inducted to Cooperstown, though, the gambling thing gets mentioned.

 

Of course, if you induct Pete Rose you have to induct Shoeless Joe Jackson.

[Tracer Bullet]

They should just shut the whole thing down. It's a damn joke anyway.

[VladiRad]

Betting on games, which could lead to fixing games, is much more damaging to a sport than steroids. Let the roiders in, keep Pete Rose out. What Pete Rose did could ruin a sport.

 

But the Hall of Fame is stupid. It's already tainted with crappy players and there's still dozens of players that should be in that aren't so I wouldn't lose any sleep if Pete Rose got in or Bonds or McGwire didn't get in. The Hall is already a joke.

Edited July 27, 2009 by VladiRad

[Soul]

If what Rose did is more damaging than Steroids, and they let Pete in........hello HOF Big Mac, Barry, and Sammy.

[Sammy Sofa]

Betting on games, which could lead to fixing games, is much more damaging to a sport than steroids. Let the roiders in, keep Pete Rose out. What Pete Rose did could ruin a sport.

 

My issue with Rose is that what he did was totally and beyond the shadow of a doubt against the rules for decades before he showed up. It was effectively baseball's cardinal sin for almost a century, he knew it, and he still willfully did it. It look at it the same way I do with the guys caught juicing after the crackdown went into effect: if you got away with it before baseball definitively said "no," good on you. If you made the choice to do it after it was completely and totally against the rules, tough [expletive].

[Clem Fandango]

I'm of the "Gambling didn't get him 4,000+ hits, let him in" boat.

 

But that's about as far as I'll debate it because outside of that I'm a little apathetic to the HOF. If they'll let someone like Jim Rice in but not Andre Dawson, eff 'em.

[Prizefight]

Betting on games, which could lead to fixing games, is much more damaging to a sport than steroids. Let the roiders in, keep Pete Rose out. What Pete Rose did could ruin a sport.

 

My issue with Rose is that what he did was totally and beyond the shadow of a doubt against the rules for decades before he showed up. It was effectively baseball's cardinal sin for almost a century, he knew it, and he still willfully did it. It look at it the same way I do with the guys caught juicing after the crackdown went into effect: if you got away with it before baseball definitively said "no," good on you. If you made the choice to do it after it was completely and totally against the rules, tough [expletive].

 

Agreed 100% that he's a scum who knew what he was doing was wrong and he was flirting with danger, however...

 

 

I think the debate lies in what you take the meaning of the Hall of Fame to be. I view it as a place to honor the best baseball has ever had it terms of skill/talent, but also how they have influenced the game positively or negatively. Yes, what Rose did was deplorable, but what he did as a hitter and the records he attained deserve to be honored in the Hall. He changed the way the game is played and to leave him out is a mistake.

 

For this reason, I also believe that steroid users should get in as well. Just put it on their plaque that they were known users or accomplished these stats during the HGH Era and be down with it. Every generation of players in the Hall accomplished their stats during an Era that you can argue influenced them whether it be Dead Ball/HGH/No Black Players/Wars etc.

 

Just my 2c though. I can certainly understand the counter arguments. It is a fun discussion for sure :)

[NCCubFan]

I still think there could be some middle ground, allowing him into the Hall while still banning him from any future involvement in baseball. And, as at least one other poster has mentioned, if Rose is allowed in then Joe Jackson MUST as well, and I don't consider that debatable.

 

Having said that, until they wake up and induct Ron Santo the Hall is dead to me anyway.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I still think there could be some middle ground, allowing him into the Hall while still banning him from any future involvement in baseball. And, as at least one other poster has mentioned, if Rose is allowed in then Joe Jackson MUST as well, and I don't consider that debatable.

 

Having said that, until they wake up and induct Ron Santo the Hall is dead to me anyway.

 

Definite agreence on Shoeless Joe. The guy was never convicted of anything, and was banished by a guy given absolute power who wanted to make an example out of him and make a name for himself. Hes long ince served his time. Besides, he was given a "lifetime ban", and lasy I checked, his lifetime ended a long time ago.

 

I could understand some people being against letting Rose back in, but I cant imagine anyone being against Joe.

[Roast]

I'm of the "Gambling didn't get him 4,000+ hits, let him in" boat.

 

But that's about as far as I'll debate it because outside of that I'm a little apathetic to the HOF. If they'll let someone like Jim Rice in but not Andre Dawson, eff 'em.

I agree.

 

It just annoys me how hypocritical the HOF can be about some of this stuff. Look at the first guy they ever inducted (Cobb) and some of the things he did. Now, surely you can draw some distinct differences between what Cobb and some other HOF'ers have done and what Rose did, but you can't discount what Rose did on the field. 4,000+ hits is ridiculous. Let the man in.

[mjohnson71]

I'm of the "Gambling didn't get him 4,000+ hits, let him in" boat.

 

But that's about as far as I'll debate it because outside of that I'm a little apathetic to the HOF. If they'll let someone like Jim Rice in but not Andre Dawson, eff 'em.

I agree.

 

It just annoys me how hypocritical the HOF can be about some of this stuff. Look at the first guy they ever inducted (Cobb) and some of the things he did. Now, surely you can draw some distinct differences between what Cobb and some other HOF'ers have done and what Rose did, but you can't discount what Rose did on the field. 4,000+ hits is ridiculous. Let the man in.

 

He deserves to get in, but I've always said two options:

-the plaque and awards ceremony must mention he bet on baseball

and/or

-he doesn't get in until after he passes away

[SouthSideRyan]

I just want Pete Rose and his sycophantic fans to go away.

[erik316wttn]

I'm of the "Gambling didn't get him 4,000+ hits, let him in" boat.

 

But that's about as far as I'll debate it because outside of that I'm a little apathetic to the HOF. If they'll let someone like Jim Rice in but not Andre Dawson, eff 'em.

I agree.

 

It just annoys me how hypocritical the HOF can be about some of this stuff. Look at the first guy they ever inducted (Cobb) and some of the things he did. Now, surely you can draw some distinct differences between what Cobb and some other HOF'ers have done and what Rose did, but you can't discount what Rose did on the field. 4,000+ hits is ridiculous. Let the man in.

 

He deserves to get in, but I've always said two options:

-the plaque and awards ceremony must mention he bet on baseball

and/or

-he doesn't get in until after he passes away

 

I'd be OK with this.

 

Illegal substances helped Barry Bonds set the all-time Home Run record. However, betting on baseball did not help Pete Rose attain even one of his 4256 hits.

[mjohnson71]

I just want Pete Rose and his sycophantic fans to go away.

 

You have a problem with Reds fans? 4000+ hits is nothing to shake a stick at and those fans are just being hometown fans.

 

If Rose had been a Cub most of his career, we'd being do the same cheerleading that Reds fans are.

[SouthSideRyan]

I just want Pete Rose and his sycophantic fans to go away.

 

You have a problem with Reds fans? 4000+ hits is nothing to shake a stick at and those fans are just being hometown fans.

 

If Rose had been a Cub most of his career, we'd being do the same cheerleading that Reds fans are.

 

It's not just the Reds fans, it's a [expletive] load of moronic Phillie fans too. The worship of the guy in some circles goes far beyond creepy. We get it, he was a white guy who played hard. He's also a disgraceful human being.

[champaignchris]

My issue with Rose is that what he did was totally and beyond the shadow of a doubt against the rules for decades before he showed up. It was effectively baseball's cardinal sin for almost a century, he knew it, and he still willfully did it. It look at it the same way I do with the guys caught juicing after the crackdown went into effect: if you got away with it before baseball definitively said "no," good on you. If you made the choice to do it after it was completely and totally against the rules, tough [expletive].

 

I think I want Rose in. I think the ban extending to the Hall of Fame is a bit silly. Especially since there's really no evidence that Rose's betting had any effect on games. (Unlike Joe Jackson, who may have thrown a World Series.) I still wouldn't want him to have anything to do with a team. I wouldn't even want him as a minor league hitting coach.

 

But I also really sympathize with MojoPin's view. If Rose gets in for committing baseball's "original sin," I don't know how you could possibly justify keeping a guy like McGuire (and Clemons, Sosa, etc., basically any of the known users from prior to the new rule going into effect) out when you could make a straight faced argument that he never actually broke any baseball rules.

 

I wonder if this might be a message to the baseball writers. If Selig reinstates Rose and the veterans (after basically not voting anyone in for a decade) then vote him in, doesn't that tell the writers how they need to be treating McGuire, Bonds, etc.?

 

Also, when will Selig investigate overturning Santo's lifetime Hall of Fame ban? I think it's about time he got a reprieve, too.

[Derwood]

Sosa/McGwire/Palmeiro SHOULD be in, regardless of the steroid ear.

 

Let Rose in. He'll shut up and go away, and those of us who don't really care about the HoF will continue to not care

[Mike Aller]

He's also a disgraceful human being.

I mean, really?

[rocket]

he's more famous for not being in the hall anyways. let him in, then people will finally shut up about him.

[inari]

I'm of the "Gambling didn't get him 4,000+ hits, let him in" boat.

 

But that's about as far as I'll debate it because outside of that I'm a little apathetic to the HOF. If they'll let someone like Jim Rice in but not Andre Dawson, eff 'em.

 

I know it sucks that Jim Rice got in without really deserving it, but it doesn't mean that Andre Dawson should get in for deserving it even less.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think Rose belongs in the HOF, but I don't think he should be allowed to have a job in baseball. That I think is the rub. The HOF passed a rule saying if you are on the banned list, you are not eligible for the HOF. If Selig reinstates him for HOF purposes, there would be nothing prohibiting Rose from taking a job in baseball. That I think has always held up the process.

[kujay]

He's also a disgraceful human being.

I mean, really?

 

What? That's my reason for being against his admission to the HOF. The rules of admission are so capricious anyway. I'm not ashamed to say that I'm opposed to him because he's a self-aggrandizing, unbashed douchebag.

[fromthestretch]

Illegal substances helped Barry Bonds set the all-time Home Run record. However, betting on baseball did not help Pete Rose attain even one of his 4256 hits.

 

You're right. Betting didn't help him get to over 4000 hits. Playing five years longer than he should have did.

 

The last five years of his career were pretty much a joke offensively, and he collected 559 of his hits during that time. He was also playing primarily first base and corner outfield during that time, positions where you'd actually expect to get some offense.

 

Yes, Pete Rose has the all-time hits record. He also has more games played, plate appearances and at-bats than anyone in the history of the game, which certainly didn't hurt him in his quest for most hits.