Cards/A's discussing Holliday (Done)

[Flames24Rulz]

It's a good deal for the Cards and along with Derosa puts them as the leading candidate to win the NLC.

 

This is how I see it. Clear favorites, but anything but a lock.

 

Yep, that's what I see too.

[Butterscup1679666578]

I see the Cubs as even with the Cards now when factoring in the 1.5 game lead.

 

Yea thats how I see it also. IF our offense is hitting to their career norms, I still like our offense better, and our pitching is better. If anything this pulls the Cards closer to the Cubs, but doesnt come close to giving them the division.

 

I think it puts them as the favorites just based on how both teams have played all season. Cards have been mostly carried by Pujols all year, but now have Holliday, DeRosa is coming around, and Rasmus has been solid. Cubs have underachieved all year and have shown no signs of breaking out of it for an extended period of time. I still think the Cubs are the most talented team in the Central but a pretty fair margin, but until they show they can actually get hot for a 10-15 game stretch, I don't see them as favorites for the division.

[YearofDaCubs]

Cards are stacked on offense now.

[Guest]

I keep losing track of this rule. Do the Cardinals get compensation picks if they offer him arbitration and he leaves?

 

 

2 1st rounders I believe

 

Then this is a pretty good trade.

Yep, 1st rounder of the signing team and a supplemental pick.

Well, there are some assumptions there.

 

If:

 

- the team that signs him is in the bottom 15 teams in the league, their first round pick is protected and StL would get a second rounder (this could easily happen with a team like the mets)

 

- the team that signs him also signs a higher ranked "A" player, StL would be second in line for compensation

 

- Holiday has a lousy second half, he could theoretically lose "A" status

 

- StL is willing to take the gamble of arbitration in what could be a very tight market this year. Holiday could make $20M+ in arbitration. Would StL take the gamble on paying that next year?

 

Most likely the answer to these questions are positives for StL, but they are still assumptions.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

And this season is OVAH.

 

Thanks for your keen insight.

[Derwood]

The Cubs are loaded on offense too, they're just playing like poop. No guarantee Holliday will do anything

[NonProfitCow]

I keep losing track of this rule. Do the Cardinals get compensation picks if they offer him arbitration and he leaves?

 

 

2 1st rounders I believe

 

Then this is a pretty good trade.

Yep, 1st rounder of the signing team and a supplemental pick.

Well, there are some assumptions there.

 

If:

 

- the team that signs him is in the bottom 15 teams in the league, their first round pick is protected and StL would get a second rounder (this could easily happen with a team like the mets)

 

- the team that signs him also signs a higher ranked "A" player, StL would be second in line for compensation

 

- Holiday has a lousy second half, he could theoretically lose "A" status

 

- StL is willing to take the gamble of arbitration in what could be a very tight market this year. Holiday could make $20M+ in arbitration. Would StL take the gamble on paying that next year?

 

Most likely the answer to these questions are positives for StL, but they are still assumptions.

Good points. I don't see how Holliday would make 20 mil in arb though. I see him in the 16 mil range. I'm fairly confident the Cards will sign him. The Cardinals don't seem to be scared off by Boras, they've dealt with him quite a bit in the past.

[NonProfitCow]

The Cubs are loaded on offense too, they're just playing like poop. No guarantee Holliday will do anything

You're forgetting about pixie dust. That's always a factor.

[Guest]

Well, there are some assumptions there.

 

If:

 

- the team that signs him is in the bottom 15 teams in the league, their first round pick is protected and StL would get a second rounder (this could easily happen with a team like the mets)

 

- the team that signs him also signs a higher ranked "A" player, StL would be second in line for compensation

 

- Holiday has a lousy second half, he could theoretically lose "A" status

 

- StL is willing to take the gamble of arbitration in what could be a very tight market this year. Holiday could make $20M+ in arbitration. Would StL take the gamble on paying that next year?

 

Most likely the answer to these questions are positives for StL, but they are still assumptions.

Good points. I don't see how Holliday would make 20 mil in arb though. I see him in the 16 mil range. I'm fairly confident the Cards will sign him. The Cardinals don't seem to be scared off by Boras, they've dealt with him quite a bit in the past.

Holiday could make a case for being a top 5 OF in the game (arby courts are pretty dumb about things like park factors). Look up what a top 5 OF salary would look like and Holiday could end up with more in arbitration than he could make in the down market that will likely exist this offseason.

 

Like I say, the most likely case is that they wouldn't have to worry about it, but the possibility can't be written off completely.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

The Cards have quite a bit of payroll coming off their books this off-season. Even if he's awarded 20m, I think they can handle it. Plus, they've always said they will expand payroll for the right player. But you are correct, Tim. It's a calculated gamble.

[MWV]

Surely the Cards must realize that Holliday bats right-handed? Poor scouting on their part. A woefully unbalanced 3-6 of Pujols, Holliday, Ludwick and DeRosa will surely bring about their downfall.

[Guest]

The Cards have quite a bit of payroll coming off their books this off-season. Even if he's awarded 20m, I think they can handle it. Plus, they've always said they will expand payroll for the right player. But you are correct, Tim. It's a calculated gamble.

Congrats - I love the move for the cards. I'm not a big Wallace fan (especially in Oak) and the other prospects are only okay. Holiday should thrive in StL - the ballpark seems to suit him pretty well. You guys definitely improved significantly for 2009 and I don't think a whole lot of damage was done to the future with the move. Chances are you get a couple decent picks to replace the lost prospects.

[Old Style]

Surely the Cards must realize that Holliday bats right-handed? Poor scouting on their part. A woefully unbalanced 3-6 of Pujols, Holliday, Ludwick and DeRosa will surely bring about their downfall.

:clapping:

[wolf stansson]

Surely the Cards must realize that Holliday bats right-handed? Poor scouting on their part. A woefully unbalanced 3-6 of Pujols, Holliday, Ludwick and DeRosa will surely bring about their downfall.

If only there were a mercurial, switch-hitting outfielder available to fulfill all our dreams and lead us to the promised land.

[nolanwood]

I really like this move for the Cardinals; however, their chance at winning the division hinges on whether or not the Cubs under perform in the second half.

[Derwood]

The Cubs are loaded on offense too, they're just playing like poop. No guarantee Holliday will do anything

You're forgetting about pixie dust. That's always a factor.

 

How's the dust working for Greene and Ankiel these days?

[Outshined_One]

The Cubs are loaded on offense too, they're just playing like poop. No guarantee Holliday will do anything

You're forgetting about pixie dust. That's always a factor.

 

How's the dust working for Greene and Ankiel these days?

 

Ankiel snorted all of it.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

The Cards have quite a bit of payroll coming off their books this off-season. Even if he's awarded 20m, I think they can handle it. Plus, they've always said they will expand payroll for the right player. But you are correct, Tim. It's a calculated gamble.

Congrats - I love the move for the cards. I'm not a big Wallace fan (especially in Oak) and the other prospects are only okay. Holiday should thrive in StL - the ballpark seems to suit him pretty well. You guys definitely improved significantly for 2009 and I don't think a whole lot of damage was done to the future with the move. Chances are you get a couple decent picks to replace the lost prospects.

 

 

Thanks. It's exciting to see the Cardinals going for it. I was worried they were content to waste Pujol's prime years with .500 baseball.

 

 

 

The Cubs are loaded on offense too, they're just playing like poop. No guarantee Holliday will do anything

You're forgetting about pixie dust. That's always a factor.

 

How's the dust working for Greene and Ankiel these days?

 

Ankiel snorted all of it.

 

 

You sir deserve a gold star.

[Vanilla Ice]

Matt Holliday is pretty much a lock for Type A

[SouthSideRyan]

Cards are stacked on offense now.

 

Do any of you people pay any attention to anything?

[RedFlash]

Considering the fact Holliday is barely an .800 OPS guy outside of Coors Field in his career, I don't see the big deal about Holliday. Personally looking at his numbers, Holliday is being really overrated. I mean there was a 3 year period in which he scored an .973, 1.012, and .947 OPS, but the other three years he was a mid .800 OPS guy. So this makes the Cards a legit threat to reach the playoffs, but by no means do this make them a lock. Not to mention they should change how teams should pitch to Pujols. Albert should not have an official at-bat after the fifth innings of any game unless the game is out of hand. This is a nice move for the Cards, but like another former Rockies OFer they acquire (Walker), Holliday is unlikely to "push them over the hill." But maybe this is kind of move to makes Hendry move with a little more urgency.

[DiamondMind]

Well this obviously is a negative for us and the rest of the division. But I'd be infinitely more concerned if they had acquired Halladay...if that's even worth mentioning.

[inari]

Considering the fact Holliday is barely an .800 OPS guy outside of Coors Field in his career, I don't see the big deal about Holliday. Personally looking at his numbers, Holliday is being really overrated. I mean there was a 3 year period in which he scored an .973, 1.012, and .947 OPS, but the other three years he was a mid .800 OPS guy. So this makes the Cards a legit threat to reach the playoffs, but by no means do this make them a lock. Not to mention they should change how teams should pitch to Pujols. Albert should not have an official at-bat after the fifth innings of any game unless the game is out of hand. This is a nice move for the Cards, but like another former Rockies OFer they acquire (Walker), Holliday is unlikely to "push them over the hill." But maybe this is kind of move to makes Hendry move with a little more urgency.

 

Er, Larry Walker played excellently for the Cardinals and was a key part in the 2004 NL Champions. He was very good in 2005 too. Not sure why you're making that comparison to try and discredit St. Louis.

[YearofDaCubs]

Cards are stacked on offense now.

 

Do any of you people pay any attention to anything?

What seems to be the problem?

[RedFlash]

Considering the fact Holliday is barely an .800 OPS guy outside of Coors Field in his career, I don't see the big deal about Holliday. Personally looking at his numbers, Holliday is being really overrated. I mean there was a 3 year period in which he scored an .973, 1.012, and .947 OPS, but the other three years he was a mid .800 OPS guy. So this makes the Cards a legit threat to reach the playoffs, but by no means do this make them a lock. Not to mention they should change how teams should pitch to Pujols. Albert should not have an official at-bat after the fifth innings of any game unless the game is out of hand. This is a nice move for the Cards, but like another former Rockies OFer they acquire (Walker), Holliday is unlikely to "push them over the hill." But maybe this is kind of move to makes Hendry move with a little more urgency.

 

Er, Larry Walker played excellently for the Cardinals and was a key part in the 2004 NL Champions. He was very good in 2005 too. Not sure why you're making that comparison to try and discredit St. Louis.

 

I was realize he was good for the Cards but he didn't put them over the top, just merely got them to the opportunity to get over the top. I meant no slap at Walker or what he did for the Cards. And I know Holliday+DeRosa could very well very good things for the Cards, but I would be more fearful of the Cards if they got a legit good pitcher to pitch behind Carp/Wainwright.