College Basketball 2009-10

[illiniguy]

Not to derail the discussion(s) about legitimate basketball teams, but IU has clearly been at the point where they just flat out aren't even going to try anymore for awhile now. We're at the point where the highlight of the game is the coach getting tossed. I'm sure Moses Abraham was impressed. God, this season can't end soon enough.

I think the two heartbreaking losses back to back to UI and PU did them in.

[soapy]

Not to derail the discussion(s) about legitimate basketball teams, but IU has clearly been at the point where they just flat out aren't even going to try anymore for awhile now. We're at the point where the highlight of the game is the coach getting tossed. I'm sure Moses Abraham was impressed. God, this season can't end soon enough.

I think the two heartbreaking losses back to back to UI and PU did them in.

 

Well they certainly haven't looked the same since.

[CubColtPacer]

Not to derail the discussion(s) about legitimate basketball teams, but IU has clearly been at the point where they just flat out aren't even going to try anymore for awhile now. We're at the point where the highlight of the game is the coach getting tossed. I'm sure Moses Abraham was impressed. God, this season can't end soon enough.

 

I think it's only a result of how the schedule shook out. This 5 game stretch was pretty much guaranteed losses/blowouts from the beginning. I remember telling somebody at the start of the Big 10 season that this would be the ugly part. IU matches up just horribly with Wisconsin. They never play well at Minnesota. Michigan State was very likely to overwhelm them. Ohio State was the only chance for a close game if IU shot well from 3 point land, but mostly they are another terrible matchup. Who did you expect them to really play well against?

 

Out of the 9 straight losses, there have only been 2 that have really disappointed me. IU should have played better in both the Iowa and Northwestern games. The Illinois and Purdue games they played well and fell just short.

 

I'll be a lot more disappointed if they aren't competitive in 2 out of the last 3 games. But most of their winnable games were in the first part of their schedule (Michigan, Illinois, Minnesota, at Penn State, Iowa, and maybe at Michigan or at Illinois). This middle stretch just grouped together all the teams they never had a chance against.

[soapy]

I don't really disagree with anything you've said, CCP. I certainly didn't expect them to win any of those games. It's the way in which they've failed to "compete" (I really hate using that word, but I can't think of a better term) that's been a shame. They absolutely can not defend anyone. The help defense is a joke and teams are free to take either an easy layup or a wide-open jumper. It seems they've regressed a great deal in that area, which I think is largely from a lack of effort.

 

Rivers absolutely can not get into the lane at this point and goes long stretches where he doesn't even try. He's almost a liability at this point offensively. Pritchard seems to be out-worked by everyone he faces (the only thing he's done well is run the high screen and roll). These guys seem to be regressing, and that's discouraging.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not really as down on Crean as some seem to be getting, but it's just frustrating (even if expected). As I said, I didn't expect to win any of these games. It's just the way in which they've lost that has been disappointing.

[mul21]

The way you're describing it really sounds like they may just be exhausted from a lack of depth and being so young and not used to a longer, more physical season. I have to think that's at least part of it, because giving up certainly doesn't strike me as being the MO of a Crean coached team.

[SouthSideRyan]

The problem is that Crean is already talking about a couple of the kids on the team needing to get the boot for lack of effort. You can't run kids off and then bemoan the lack of depth. You also can't glue kids like Muniru and Elston to the bench and be upset about your lack of size inside. How nice would it be to have a Nick Williams on the team this year to step up once Creek went down? IU does not have the talent to be a tourney team right now, but there are enough D1 level players to provide the depth to prevent the breakdown that has happened.

[Sosa21MVP]

The problem is that Crean is already talking about a couple of the kids on the team needing to get the boot for lack of effort. You can't run kids off and then bemoan the lack of depth. You also can't glue kids like Muniru and Elston to the bench and be upset about your lack of size inside. How nice would it be to have a Nick Williams on the team this year to step up once Creek went down? IU does not have the talent to be a tourney team right now, but there are enough D1 level players to provide the depth to prevent the breakdown that has happened.

 

Yeah I don't expect all the underclassmen to return next season but I don't know who will be leaving. Hopefully not Watford, there were rumors about him leaving recently. He hasn't been playing well but he still has tons of talent and potential. I think we need to get a new big man coach, whoever is working with them is not doing a very good job IMO.

 

It has been a wasted season for Muniru, he should have been redshirted if he is only going to play minimal mop up time.

[soapy]

The Nick Williams transfer was one that I never really totally understood. I'm sure he figured he was going to be behind Creek on the depth chart (and maybe Dumes?), but he followed Crean from Marquette to IU. Seems he'd give it more than a year and see where he fit into this team.

 

I think any reference made by Crean to someone getting the boot for a lack of effort is empty. They can't afford to lose anyone (particularly frontline players) as they don't really have any coming in next year. If Watford leaves they are fucked.

 

ETA: and I disagree that Watford hasn't played well, overall. He needs to get stronger but he's been respectable.

[SouthSideRyan]

The Nick Williams transfer was one that I never really totally understood. I'm sure he figured he was going to be behind Creek on the depth chart (and maybe Dumes?), but he followed Crean from Marquette to IU. Seems he'd give it more than a year and see where he fit into this team.

 

I thought it was rumored that Williams wasn't happy with Story(his roommate and best friend maybe?) being shown the door, so he followed him out. That may have been Illinois fan rumor mongering to make Crean look bad though.

[soapy]

The Nick Williams transfer was one that I never really totally understood. I'm sure he figured he was going to be behind Creek on the depth chart (and maybe Dumes?), but he followed Crean from Marquette to IU. Seems he'd give it more than a year and see where he fit into this team.

 

I thought it was rumored that Williams wasn't happy with Story(his roommate and best friend maybe?) being shown the door, so he followed him out. That may have been Illinois fan rumor mongering to make Crean look bad though.

 

Yeah, William left right after Story (they were definitely roomates but I don't know about "best friends"), so there could have been something going on there, but I never really saw anything to support that other than fan speculation. Most stories indicated that Williams went to the coaches immediately after the season to discuss his role with the team and I guees didn't like what they had to say.

[Sosa21MVP]

The Nick Williams transfer was one that I never really totally understood. I'm sure he figured he was going to be behind Creek on the depth chart (and maybe Dumes?), but he followed Crean from Marquette to IU. Seems he'd give it more than a year and see where he fit into this team.

 

I think any reference made by Crean to someone getting the boot for a lack of effort is empty. They can't afford to lose anyone (particularly frontline players) as they don't really have any coming in next year. If Watford leaves they are [expletive].

 

ETA: and I disagree that Watford hasn't played well, overall. He needs to get stronger but he's been respectable.

 

I'm not talking overall, I'm talking lately. Not that anyone else has been lighting the world on fire either.

[soapy]

The Nick Williams transfer was one that I never really totally understood. I'm sure he figured he was going to be behind Creek on the depth chart (and maybe Dumes?), but he followed Crean from Marquette to IU. Seems he'd give it more than a year and see where he fit into this team.

 

I think any reference made by Crean to someone getting the boot for a lack of effort is empty. They can't afford to lose anyone (particularly frontline players) as they don't really have any coming in next year. If Watford leaves they are [expletive].

 

ETA: and I disagree that Watford hasn't played well, overall. He needs to get stronger but he's been respectable.

 

I'm not talking overall, I'm talking lately. Not that anyone else has been lighting the world on fire either.

 

I see. Well there's no question that their inside play is suspect at best, even considering their talent level. Pritchard in particular has been bad. He plays like a pansy most of the time.

[Exile on Waveland]

I figured Story would leave, I was surprised and saddened when Williams left. He would have clearly helped this team.

 

I would completely disagree that IU can't afford people to leave this year. They're not going to be very good next either; so forget about it. It's myopic. Taking the long-view, IU needs people to leave. They simply cannot have marginal players wasting scholarships with the Classes of 2011 and 2012 absolutely loaded in Indiana (especially counting a couple kids with Indiana ties). Not to say I want a complete house cleaning, but they need open scholarships. (Nor do I want Crean running-off players, I'm asking for willing transfers, which will happen). Obviously this raises the issue of how much they need to win next year to attract recruits, but I'd honestly rather deal with that then be a incrementally better next year with fewer scholarships to hand out (I also think that if they kept a few key players, and had no major injuries, they'd be better even without "depth"). Also, too many players leaving would have negative APR consequences, but I admit to some ignorance there.

 

Oh, and six injuries mentioned, two being Hoosiers ](*,) :

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/4710/a-look-back-at-season-shaping-injuries

[illiniguy]

Anyone else watch the Big Ten Network's On Campus preview show? They were at Illinois this week and our football players put on a pretty sweet dunk contest.

[SouthSideRyan]

I understand what you're saying Exile, but IMO, the most important thing for IU is to change the perception of their program. As we mentioned earlier, even a couple more wins this season, makes them look a lot better to potential recruits. If you have 3-4 more kids leave this year, and you're once again short-handed, without a lot of help coming from the '10 recruits, you're looking at the possibility of another single digit win season with blowout losses along the way. Indiana might still be a name to some kids in Indiana, but that doesn't matter if there aren't any signs of progress. You're not going to pull a Dawson or a Marrero or a Teague when you don't have anything on the court to sell them while going against Louisville, Kentucky, Purdue, OSU, IL, ND, etc.

 

The other thing, is who's the best fit to transfer? I'd say Capobianco is the guy on your team that brings the least to the table, now and for the future, but frontcourt is where you need the most help. You wouldn't want to lose any of the guards (Hulls, Jones, Creek, Rivers or RotH) so it winds up leaving you even more undermanned in the front court than this year. That and big men notoriously take time to develop. What happens when Muniru or Elston take off, and it turns out in 2 years they're a solid Big Ten level player?

 

My opinion is IU should be building toward the '12 class. It's stacked in the state of Indiana, and you already have 3 open scholarships for that year. You take Creek back, you hope for development from Watford and Hulls, you hope Jones stops being such a chucker when he gets somebody else on the team that can shoot, and you aim for 500 overall and 6 wins in conference. Is that alone enough to bring in the top kids? Of course not, but you hope to have established a nice connection with the kid, you hope the name Indiana means something to him, and maybe you resign yourself to taking the 4 stars out of that class rather than shooting for the moon when going up against a Cal or a Matta.

 

Don't get me wrong, I hope whatever plan IU enacts fails miserably, but I don't see how opening up 2 or 3 more scholarships for '12 is going to help matters, when it might be enough of a struggle to get the top kids to fill those 3 voids.

[Magnetic Curses]

semrau isn't returning. there's another schollie for next year.

[illiniguy]

semrau isn't returning. there's another schollie for next year.

That explains all the point guards we have been looking at in the '10 class.

[SouthSideRyan]

semrau isn't returning. there's another schollie for next year.

That explains all the point guards we have been looking at in the '10 class.

 

Scares the hell out of me.

[snoodmonger]

wow the refs are totally jobbing Tennessee

[illiniguy]

semrau isn't returning. there's another schollie for next year.

That explains all the point guards we have been looking at in the '10 class.

 

Scares the hell out of me.

Me too, DMac needs to stay.

[illiniguy]

wow the refs are totally jobbing Tennessee

I'm not sure it will matter. How long will Cal coach until he realizes you need at least one jump shooter?

[SouthSideRyan]

Sure wish they'd switch off the ND game.

[illiniguy]

John Wall is a freak. I cannot imagine how good he would be if he could just shoot a little bit of a jump shot.

[snoodmonger]

John Wall is a freak. I cannot imagine how good he would be if he could just shoot a little bit of a jump shot.

 

he sure can push the ball

[Magnetic Curses]

he sure can ride around the wasteland in a rocket car.