One of the best series ever: Celtics win 4-3

[David]

I mean, we're not even talking about something borderline. That was a blatantly bad call and they had the benefit of replay.

[Old Style]

Just for the record, Brad Miller shot 82.4% from the FT line for the season and Tyrus Thomas shot 78.3%.

 

I'm not necessarily arguing that TT should have been in the game on that last play or that he would have made both FT's if he was, but I wanted to make it clear that he is far from poor at the line.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=0556

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3032

[SouthSideRyan]

 

The Bulls have shot more free throws than the Celtics in every game but game 1.

 

You really think FTs attempted mean anything? There's a lot to consider besides just that.

 

You really think the Bulls are much if at all more of a penetration/post team?

[Soul]

So how far can a player get since it's the final 15 seconds? That's a slippery slope.

 

maybe, but that's how the game is officiated in real life.

 

 

give me a break.

 

what? you don't see that officials call the game differently in the last 10 seconds? sorry but that's just the way it works.

Why is it wrong to want the rules to be applied consistently?

[SouthSideRyan]

Because you don't want the rules applied consistently. You want them applied consistently for your team. I can only imagine the outrage on here if Hinrich did that to Perkins and a flagrant was called. It's not like they didn't call a foul in that situation. They called it correctly, it's pretty difficult to assume intent when a guy is swatting towards a guy's arm. This looks a lot worse from this angle btw compared to the back angle that actually shows Rondo's arm get mostly back.

[David]

Because you don't want the rules applied consistently. You want them applied consistently for your team. I can only imagine the outrage on here if Hinrich did that to Perkins and a flagrant was called. It's not like they didn't call a foul in that situation. They called it correctly, it's pretty difficult to assume intent when a guy is swatting towards a guy's arm. This looks a lot worse from this angle btw compared to the back angle that actually shows Rondo's arm get mostly back.

 

Lots of irony here.

 

99% of the people who would say that was the correct call are Boston fans (the other 1% being Flames, apparently). Most impartial observers I've seen comment on it thus far (great scientific sample, I know) think it should've been called a flagrant, with the same caveat being mentioned here about how it's not gonna get called in that situation. Doesn't change the fact that the act itself should've been called a flagrant and that the situational crap is nonsense.

 

If the situations were reversed and it were called correctly, I'd be pissed that it was called (obviously) but I wouldn't have a leg to stand on or an argument to make.

[Tyrant]

 

The Bulls have shot more free throws than the Celtics in every game but game 1.

 

You really think FTs attempted mean anything? There's a lot to consider besides just that.

 

You really think the Bulls are much if at all more of a penetration/post team?

 

The only guy on the Celtics who consistently gets to the line is Pierce and Rondo, to some extent. Powe shot the second-most free throws per game on the Celtics and he's out. Parkins and Davis don't get to the line.

 

Gordon, Miller, Salmons, Tyrus and Rose (especially later in the season) all do a pretty good job getting to the line. Plus, the Bulls have been really aggressive offensively this series, going to the basket a lot. I don't think it's surprising they're shooting more free throws.

[David]

How does Kendrick Perkins go without committing a foul in 48 minutes?

[Tyrant]

They called it correctly, it's pretty difficult to assume intent when a guy is swatting towards a guy's arm.

 

At his arm?

 

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3280/bullsnofoul.gif

 

Rondo was about four feet from the basketball.

[SouthSideRyan]

Celtics shot 33 more free throws than the Bulls during the regular season.

[Soul]

No, I want the rules applied consistently, even if it goes against my own team.

[David]

Kendrick Perkins placed his name in august company with an odd accomplishment, if you can call it that, in the Celtics' 106-104 overtime win over the Bulls. Perkins played 48 minutes without committing a personal foul. The only other starting centers to do that in an NBA playoff game were Wilt Chamberlain (five times) and Bill Russell (twice).

[SouthSideRyan]

How does Kendrick Perkins go without committing a foul in 48 minutes?

 

How does Ray Allen foul out in 26 minutes?

[Tyrant]

Celtics shot 33 more free throws than the Bulls during the regular season.

 

Over the entire season, yes. But when Garnett went out, they became more perimeter-oriented and their attempts dropped from about 26 a game to 22.5 per game.

 

The Bulls' attempt ticked up just a tiny bit with the addition of Miller and Salmons, as well as Rose going to the basket more late in the season.

[wolf stansson]

This is a lot of excuse making for Derrick. If you want to say he's a rookie and is lacking experience in situations like that against a solid defensive team showing him confusing looks then I'll completely agree. He'll get better and eventually he'll punish teams for playing him in such a lopsided fashion. But that night wasn't tonight. He played poorly in the 4th quarter. How is that anything but the objective truth? He played very poorly on both ends of the floor late in the game.

 

The defense has been bad all year so that's nothing really new (by most defensive metrics he is one of the worst defenders in the entire league) but you can't tell me his poor play on the offensive end doesn't fall on his shoulders. It pretty clearly does. He flat out played bad.

 

Edit: The man has 20 turnovers in the last three games. That is unacceptable from any point guard. Rose would be the first one to tell you that.

I'm not saying Derrick played well last night. I'm saying that the team he plays on is so flawed that his problems are way down on the list of contributing factors to why they are bad. When he or Ben play like super men, people think the Bulls are all of a sudden good. They aren't. They're seriously flawed. You can't hold them to any standard until you get a better coach, better system, better players and more consistent performances.

[SouthSideRyan]

Celtics shot 33 more free throws than the Bulls during the regular season.

 

Over the entire season, yes. But when Garnett went out, they became more perimeter-oriented and their attempts dropped from about 26 a game to 22.5 per game.

 

The Bulls' attempt ticked up just a tiny bit with the addition of Miller and Salmons, as well as Rose going to the basket more late in the season.

 

I would've thought the picked up pace of the Celtics would've cancelled out the Garnett factor.

 

So what we're looking at is, the current-makeup Celtics are pretty much shooting the same amount of free throws they did all season relative to the current-makeup Bulls.

[Tyrant]

 

So what we're looking at is, the current-makeup Celtics are pretty much shooting the same amount of free throws they did all season relative to the current-makeup Bulls.

 

No, we're looking at the current-makeup Celtics shooting fewer free throws than the current-makeup Bulls (about 22.5 to 26).

[SouthSideRyan]

 

So what we're looking at is, the current-makeup Celtics are pretty much shooting the same amount of free throws they did all season relative to the current-makeup Bulls.

 

No, we're looking at the current-makeup Celtics shooting fewer free throws than the current-makeup Bulls (about 22.5 to 26).

 

And the Bulls have shot 2.6 more free throws per game than the Celtics in the playoffs. We're looking at a 1 free throw difference.

[wolf stansson]

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm16/dhohulin/rondo-miller.jpg

[ChiCubsFan]

haha

[SouthSideRyan]

Ok, that's pretty funny.

[Tyrant]

 

So what we're looking at is, the current-makeup Celtics are pretty much shooting the same amount of free throws they did all season relative to the current-makeup Bulls.

 

No, we're looking at the current-makeup Celtics shooting fewer free throws than the current-makeup Bulls (about 22.5 to 26).

 

And the Bulls have shot 2.6 more free throws per game than the Celtics in the playoffs. We're looking at a 1 free throw difference.

 

Right. And you were the one who originally brought up the Bulls shooting more free throws than the Celtics, like it meant something.

[SouthSideRyan]

 

So what we're looking at is, the current-makeup Celtics are pretty much shooting the same amount of free throws they did all season relative to the current-makeup Bulls.

 

No, we're looking at the current-makeup Celtics shooting fewer free throws than the current-makeup Bulls (about 22.5 to 26).

 

And the Bulls have shot 2.6 more free throws per game than the Celtics in the playoffs. We're looking at a 1 free throw difference.

 

Right. And you were the one who originally brought up the Bulls shooting more free throws than the Celtics, like it meant something.

 

I was pointing it out to point out the absurdity of the "refs are out to screw us, they want the marquee hobbled Celtics matchup over exciting young Bulls" crew.

 

People were freaking out in here over no foul for Derrick Rose tripping over his own feet down the stretch. These threads are becoming Cub game thread like. Only with way less self-loathing.

[Tyrant]

I was pointing it out to point out the absurdity of the "refs are out to screw us, they want the marquee hobbled Celtics matchup over exciting young Bulls" crew.

 

Ah, gotcha.

 

For the record, I don't have a beef with the refs in this series. There have been plenty of bad calls, but they've gone both ways. The Miller play from last night is a debatable call in terms of a flagrant, but I understand the reality of that not being called in Boston, with 10 seconds left. If they're in Chicago, maybe it gets called. That's how the NBA works.

 

The Bulls lost because they couldn't stop Paul Pierce down the stretch. They need to play better in Game 6.

[SouthSideRyan]

I don't think that flagrant gets called on any team in any arena at that point in the game. The only flagrant I can ever see getting called that late in a game is an actual push, or clear path grab.