Cub prospects in the news

[Guest]

Just out of curiosity, why are these guys lining up to [expletive] on Vitters, but the next years high school phenom, Tim Beckham, who is only a half year younger than Vitters and put up worse minor league career numbers to date not only get a pass but hes on the Futures Team?

 

Everyone says Matt Moore is so great, but he can't hit for crap!

[Little Slide Rooter]

Just out of curiosity, why are these guys lining up to [expletive] on Vitters, but the next years high school phenom, Tim Beckham, who is only a half year younger than Vitters and put up worse minor league career numbers to date not only get a pass but hes on the Futures Team?

 

Everyone says Matt Moore is so great, but he can't hit for crap!

 

Im assuming your saying that Beckham is a better fielder than Vitters, but if your a #1 overall pick, you need to have a bat to go with it, even if your the 2nd coming of Ozzie Smith defensively.

[Rob]

I think some people need to let go of the disappointment of him being the #3 overall pick and just look at what he is. He's a young guy in an advanced league who is playing at an above-average level while showcasing an ability to put the ball in play. Does he have holes in his game? Yeah, but he seems pretty likely to reach the majors and provide at least some value for us.

 

Bust as the #3 pick? Probably.

 

Bust as a prospect? Certainly not yet.

[SouthSideRyan]

Here's what Sickels said pre-draft:

 

Ranked as the top high school hitter in the class this year by Baseball America, Vitters is a product of Cypress High School in California, and has been a monster on the showcase circuit the last year. I like his size at 6-3, 195 pounds: not too small, but not so large that his strike zone gets unmanageable. He has plus power to all fields, and scouts expect he'll be able to hit for average as well. No one questions his bat; about the only doubt is if he's a 20 homer guy or a 30+ homer guy in the long run. His swing isn't long and he handles both breaking stuff and fastballs well according to scouts.

 

Physically, his speed is just average. He has a strong arm but has to keep working on his defense at third base; it should be OK in the long run as long as his legs don't get thick. He could end up as a right fielder if hot corner defense becomes an issue.

 

Trying to think of some comps here....Best Case : Chipper Jones without the steals early in his career.. Medium Case: Mike Cuddyer. Worst Case: hmm....someone who gets injured or tops out as a Triple-A slugger.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I think some people need to let go of the disappointment of him being the #3 overall pick and just look at what he is. He's a young guy in an advanced league who is playing at an above-average level while showcasing an ability to put the ball in play. Does he have holes in his game? Yeah, but he seems pretty likely to reach the majors and provide at least some value for us.

 

Bust as the #3 pick? Probably.

 

Bust as a prospect? Certainly not yet.

 

I agree with you. Kind of like the people who get hung up on Alfonso Soriano and Carlos Zambranos contracts, and come to the conclusion that since they dont live up to the money they earn, they automatically suck, despite the fact that they're both very productive players.

[KingCubsFan]

I think some people need to let go of the disappointment of him being the #3 overall pick and just look at what he is. He's a young guy in an advanced league who is playing at an above-average level while showcasing an ability to put the ball in play. Does he have holes in his game? Yeah, but he seems pretty likely to reach the majors and provide at least some value for us.

 

Bust as the #3 pick? Probably.

 

Bust as a prospect? Certainly not yet.

The problem is that his status as a prospect goes hand in hand with the fact that he was the #3 pick. He has incredible raw skills that he will likely never be able to translate to the sustained success he is capable of. When he was drafted, the fear was that he'd never be able to develop enough discipline and simply skate by on his natural hitting ability. And that's basically what he's done.

[BeerHere]

BA Mid-Season Top 50

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/prospects/prospect-pulse/2011/2612044.html

 

32. Brett Jackson, of, Cubs Jackson doesn't have superstar potential, but his speed and hitting ability mean he's low risk

 

48. Matt Szczur, of, Cubs Still catching up because of time lost, but toolsy outfielder also shows a feel for hitting

[Guest]

I think some people need to let go of the disappointment of him being the #3 overall pick and just look at what he is. He's a young guy in an advanced league who is playing at an above-average level while showcasing an ability to put the ball in play. Does he have holes in his game? Yeah, but he seems pretty likely to reach the majors and provide at least some value for us.

 

Bust as the #3 pick? Probably.

 

Bust as a prospect? Certainly not yet.

The problem is that his status as a prospect goes hand in hand with the fact that he was the #3 pick. He has incredible raw skills that he will likely never be able to translate to the sustained success he is capable of. When he was drafted, the fear was that he'd never be able to develop enough discipline and simply skate by on his natural hitting ability. And that's basically what he's done.

I don't know, but I think your post is more an indictment of the development system than of the player. I'll buy that. I don't know enough about drafting and development to make any declarative judgment, but I think player development is the largest problem with the Cubs since I've been following them.

 

The Cubs are simply not very good at developing hitters. They seem pretty decent to even better developing pitchers, but again this is somewhat of a chicken/egg thing. How much is talent and how much is development?

 

I think Brooks Kishnick and some other guys who've gone through the minor league system haven't had too many good things to say the Cubs.

Edited July 7, 2011 by CubinNY

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't know, but I think your post is more an indictment of the development system than of the player. I'll buy that. I don't know enough about drafting and development to make any declarative judgment, but I think player development is the largest problem with the Cubs since I've been following them.

 

The Cubs are simply not very good at developing hitters. The seem pretty decent to even better developing pitchers, but again this is somewhat of a chicken/egg thing. How much is talent and how much is development?

 

I think Brooks Kishnick and some other guys who gone through the minor league system haven't had too many good things to say the Cubs.

 

I think they struggle to develop hitters but have probably also struggled to identify what type of hitters are more likely to develop. There is also the additional problem of the MacPhail strategy of going heavy on pitcher development and then trading for bats when you need them. They just didn't seem to emphasize it all that much. Had they been more committed to developing their own bats, they may have been better at it.

[SouthSideRyan]

I think Vitters is a bad match for an organization that eschews walks.

[CubsWin]

I think Vitters is a bad match for an organization that eschews walks.

What organization eschews walks? Dusty's with the Reds now...

[Tryptamine]

Cowboy (Chicago)

 

 

Excited to (hopefully) see Matt Szczur in the Future Game. I've heard a range of projections for him from an Ellsbury type to the next Corey Patterson. Where do you see him?

 

 

Klaw

(2:32 PM)

 

 

Juan Pierre type. Very flat slashing stroke should produce contact without power. Runs very well. Limited feel for the zone right now.

 

Law has some ridiculous hate for Szczur and I have no idea why.

 

21BB 26SO, yeah real limited feel for the zone. I hate those guys who walk almost as much as they strike out.

 

Juan Pierre= 3362 at bats to hit 5 HR

Szczur= 265 at bats to hit 5 HR

Szczur's current SLG is more than .030 points higher than Pierre has had during any year in his career.

[TruffleShuffle]

yeah law's opinions about szczur are blatantly wrong. i mean, you don't have to love the guy as a prospect, but to compare him to juan pierre is just ignorant, and he clearly has pretty good plate discipline too.

[Outshined_One]

Juan Pierre hit only one home run over his three year minor league career.

 

I don't think Szczur will ever be much of a power threat, but come on, Juan Pierre? Really?

[BeerHere]

This week's BA Hot Sheet lists three Cubs:

 

The Good:

 

No. 3 BRETT JACKSON, CF

CUBS

Team: Double-A Tennessee (Southern)

Age: 22

Why He's Here: .440/.548/.840 (11-for-25), 4 R, 1 2B, 3 HR, 5 RBIs, 6 BB, 8 SO, 1-for-1 SB

The Scoop: There isn't a 70 grade anywhere on Jackson's scouting report, but he does so many things well and does it at a premium position that he has become one of the best prospects in the game. Even when Jackson is at his best, he'll do his share of swinging and missing, but he works deep counts and get on base at a high clip. He doesn't have plus power, but he should hit 15-20 home runs a year, which combined with his on-base potential and solid defensive abilities should have him banging down the door in Chicago by next season.

 

 

The Not-Too-Shabby

Cubs LHP Austin Kirk began his Independence Day by walking the first batter he faced. Then he set down 14 consecutive batters before another walk in the sixth, the only other baserunner he allowed in low Class A Peoria's 2-0 win over Clinton. Kirk, 21, completed his no-hitter with 10 strikeouts, breaking a three-game losing streak and evening his record at 5-5, 2.60. Kirk was a third-round pick out of high school in Oklahoma in 2009 .

 

 

The God-Awful

Hayden Simpson, lhp, Cubs: The Cubs' bucked conventional wisdom when they picked Simpson in the first round of the 2010 draft, after seeing him pitch well late in the season during the Division II playoffs. Up to now, you have to score one for conventional wisdom. Simpson has not come close to showing the 94-97 mph velocity he showed the Cubs last year, and his fastball has failed to bump 90 in some starts. He scuffled in the low Class A Midwest League in the first half of the season, going 1-6, 5.72, so the Cubs sent him back to the Rookie-level Arizona League. Facing significantly younger and less experienced players hasn't gotten him going either. He allowed five runs, five hits and walked two while striking out no one in 2 1/3 innings in his first start.

[Guest]

BA Hot Sheet

 

No. 3BRETT JACKSON, CF

CUBS

Team: Double-A Tennessee (Southern)

Age: 22

Why He's Here: .440/.548/.840 (11-for-25), 4 R, 1 2B, 3 HR, 5 RBIs, 6 BB, 8 SO, 1-for-1 SB

The Scoop: There isn't a 70 grade anywhere on Jackson's scouting report, but he does so many things well and does it at a premium position that he has become one of the best prospects in the game. Even when Jackson is at his best, he'll do his share of swinging and missing, but he works deep counts and get on base at a high clip. He doesn't have plus power, but he should hit 15-20 home runs a year, which combined with his on-base potential and solid defensive abilities should have him banging down the door in Chicago by next season.

 

IN THE TEAM PHOTO

 

Cubs LHP Austin Kirk began his Independence Day by walking the first batter he faced. Then he set down 14 consecutive batters before another walk in the sixth, the only other baserunner he allowed in low Class A Peoria's 2-0 win over Clinton. Kirk, 21, completed his no-hitter with 10 strikeouts, breaking a three-game losing streak and evening his record at 5-5, 2.60. Kirk was a third-round pick out of high school in Oklahoma in 2009 . . .

 

NOT-SO HOT SHEET

 

• Hayden Simpson, lhp, Cubs: The Cubs' bucked conventional wisdom when they picked Simpson in the first round of the 2010 draft, after seeing him pitch well late in the season during the Division II playoffs. Up to now, you have to score one for conventional wisdom. Simpson has not come close to showing the 94-97 mph velocity he showed the Cubs last year, and his fastball has failed to bump 90 in some starts. He scuffled in the low Class A Midwest League in the first half of the season, going 1-6, 5.72, so the Cubs sent him back to the Rookie-level Arizona League. Facing significantly younger and less experienced players hasn't gotten him going either. He allowed five runs, five hits and walked two while striking out no one in 2 1/3 innings in his first start.

[toonsterwu]

I hope someone asks them about Simpson and whether or not they think his issues have to do with health from the recovery, or something more concerning.

[Guest]

I guess this would make Jeimer Candelario the top prospect in the DSL:

 

@BenBadler Candelario. But, yeah, that's an intense league RT @ToddyBaseball in a deep dynasty league: Vicmal de la Cruz or Jeimer Candeliario?

[Guest]

Jose (New York): Hey, which top Cubs OF do you like more: Szczur or Jackson

 

J.J. Cooper: I'll say Jackson for now. But Szcur has more upside. Jackson's just much more of a safer bet, and in this case the difference is enough that I'll take the safer bet.

 

Matt Szczur (Low A ????): Why am I here? I'm 22

 

J.J. Cooper: Context is everything. Scouts love Szczur's tools and his approach. He missed a lot of time in college because of football, so he's understandably behind the average 22-year-old. But whenever you ask a scout who's a player on the rise, Szczur's name is one of the first to come up.

 

Joe R. (Newport News, VA): Just thinking about Hayden Simpson makes me, a Cub fan, irate. Shouldn't the Cubs just admit they blundered and release him now, just to get him out of their (and my) system?

 

J.J. Cooper: Why release him? The money is invested now, give him time to prove that the stuff is still in his arm. He had a bad case of mono last year, so there's plenty of reasons to be patient and see if he can get back to full strength. A veteran pitching coach told me he'd love to wave a wand and make all of his pitchers spend a season trying to pitch with a mid 80s fastball so they'd learn how to pitch, then wave the wand to give them their fastball back. They'd be polished pitchers then with a plus fastball. There's always a chance that Simpson is one of the few pitchers that will get that chance.

 

Dan (Chicago): How could Austin Kirk not be on the list? THE GUY THREW A NO HITTER!!!

 

J.J. Cooper: Yes he did, so we put him in the team photo. It was a very nice accomplishment for Mr. Kirk, but it's the Prospect Hot Sheet, so prospect status plays a part in the rankings.

 

And:

 

Dr. John (New Orleans): Is Chris Archer even a Top 100 prospect anymore after plummeting out of the Top 50?

 

J.J. Cooper: Yes. It's a step back, but he hasn't fallen off a cliff.

 

Tony (Frederick, MD): After a hot start, Hak-ju Lee's bat has cooled down. Now, the offensive performance fits what was expected (average/OBP guy with minimal power), but considering the poor SB rate and the fact that his defense still needs clean up work, his ranking seemed awfully high, and in all honesty, seems somewhat based upon his hot start. Is a speedy, minimal power guy who needs clean up work defensively really deserving of a position that high?

 

J.J. Cooper: The defense is cleaning up. Still some more work to go, but scouts project him to be a plus defender. And it's really hard to find big league shortstops. If you're a catcher, shortstop or third baseman, you're in high demand and the list somewhat reflects that.

[TruffleShuffle]

I guess this would make Jeimer Candelario the top prospect in the DSL:

 

@BenBadler Candelario. But, yeah, that's an intense league RT @ToddyBaseball in a deep dynasty league: Vicmal de la Cruz or Jeimer Candeliario?

 

jeez a dynasty league where people are picking up kids from the DSL? that sounds ridiculous.

[Guest]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/majors/organization-reports/chicago-cubs/2011/2612056.html

 

BA's midseason review (by Phil Rogers):

 

Best Player: Matt Szczur

Biggest Leap Forward: Tony Campana (yikes)

Biggest Disappointment: Alberto Cabrera:

 

After a strong spring training in which general manager Jim Hendry mentioned righthanders Alberto Cabrera and Trey McNutt as guys who could help in the big leagues this season, the 22-year-old Cabrera lost both velocity and sharpness on his breaking pitches.

[scarey]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/majors/organization-reports/chicago-cubs/2011/2612056.html

 

BA's midseason review (by Phil Rogers):

 

Best Player: Matt Szczur

Biggest Leap Forward: Tony Campana (yikes)

Biggest Disappointment: Alberto Cabrera:

 

After a strong spring training in which general manager Jim Hendry mentioned righthanders Alberto Cabrera and Trey McNutt as guys who could help in the big leagues this season, the 22-year-old Cabrera lost both velocity and sharpness on his breaking pitches.

 

Tony Campana with the biggest leap forward is laughable with guys like Bour, Rosscup, Marwin, and Ha as much better candidates.

[idakepps]

 

Tony (Frederick, MD): After a hot start, Hak-ju Lee's bat has cooled down. Now, the offensive performance fits what was expected (average/OBP guy with minimal power), but considering the poor SB rate and the fact that his defense still needs clean up work, his ranking seemed awfully high, and in all honesty, seems somewhat based upon his hot start. Is a speedy, minimal power guy who needs clean up work defensively really deserving of a position that high?

 

J.J. Cooper: The defense is cleaning up. Still some more work to go, but scouts project him to be a plus defender. And it's really hard to find big league shortstops. If you're a catcher, shortstop or third baseman, you're in high demand and the list somewhat reflects that.

 

Also has a lot to do with him being in Tampa's org as opposed to the Cubs. Lee was a 70-100 type of prospect on most lists. Half a good season in High A elevates a prospect to #22?

[StarlinOnYou]

I guess this would make Jeimer Candelario the top prospect in the DSL:

 

@BenBadler Candelario. But, yeah, that's an intense league RT @ToddyBaseball in a deep dynasty league: Vicmal de la Cruz or Jeimer Candeliario?

 

jeez a dynasty league where people are picking up kids from the DSL? that sounds ridiculous.

 

I had to read it twice. I find it hilarious.

 

Has to be a joke, right?

[BeerHere]

From the Callis chat at BA:

 

 

@Jaypers413 (IL): Your thoughts on Brett Jackson and Ryan Flaherty getting promoted to Iowa?

 

 

Jim Callis: Deserved and not a surprise. Jackson got off to a hot start this year and slowed down after he injured a finger, but I expect him to be a regular in the Cubs outfield at sometime next year. Flaherty is having his best year ever and he could be in Chicago at some point in 2012 also. Don't rule him out being Aramis Ramirez' successor at third base.

 

 

Tegan (Chicago): What's happened to Trey McNutt? He seems to really be struggling this year. Is he still salvageable or is he nothing more than organizational filler again?

 

 

Jim Callis: He's had repeated blister problems. Still has a quality arm, but it's been a lost season. Long-term potential hasn't changed, though.

 

 

Wasn't McNutt pulled from the last start due to the rain delay? I was thinking that he was over the blister issues already and it's too early to say this has been a "lost season" imo.