Cub prospects in the news

[SouthSideRyan]

I know we're scarred with Brett's K's, but I honestly expect Olt to win the 3B job next spring and play well enough that we'd be fine, without anyone else pushing him out.

 

I think people are more scarred with how terrible Olt was this season.

[Guest]

Vogelbach is not supplanting Rizzo and Olt is not good.

 

Shh. Don't mess with the fantasy man. We know about reality, why do you have to spoil the fantasy?

 

Because the fantasy with Rizzo and Bryant (as a 3B) panning out is better.

 

I'd prefer elite-level defense in my fantasy. And a fat first baseman that hits the ball into outer space.

 

You prefer elite defense yet somehow want Vogelbach over Rizzo?

 

At third I do.

[Guest]

Vogelbach is not supplanting Rizzo and Olt is not good.

 

Oh God get over yourself, francis

 

I just don't know why you'd rather dream on Vogelbach panning out than Rizzo. A fully realized Rizzo is a much better player.

 

True, but this is my fantasy.

[Guest]

I know we're scarred with Brett's K's, but I honestly expect Olt to win the 3B job next spring and play well enough that we'd be fine, without anyone else pushing him out.

 

I think people are more scarred with how terrible Olt was this season.

 

You arent allowed on the Olt bandwagon. I will burn you with a [expletive] hot poker in the eyes and smash the wagon into a million pieces and eat the horses before I let you put one irish paw on it.

[SABR Gamer]

Vogelbach is not supplanting Rizzo and Olt is not good.

 

Oh God get over yourself, francis

 

I just don't know why you'd rather dream on Vogelbach panning out than Rizzo. A fully realized Rizzo is a much better player.

 

True, but this is my fantasy.

 

Your fantasy is based on the idea that Vogelbach has a higher offensive ceiling than Rizzo, when I don't even really think that's true.

 

At age 20 (Vogelbach this year), Rizzo was putting up an .814 with 25 HR at A+ and AA (heavy majority being at AA), while Vogelbach put up an .824 with 19 HR at A and A+ (heavy majority being at A).

 

So basically the same numbers at a full level higher, while having lost a year of development due to cancer treatment and STILL being ahead in his offensive progression. Rizzo then followed that up by posting a 1.056 at AAA at age 21, while Vogelbach will likely be starting next year at A+ at that age. Then at 22, an age at which Vogelbach will have to be lucky to have made it to AAA, Rizzo hit a combined 38 homers between AAA and MLB.

 

Rizzo will likely make adjustments next year. You are letting a sophomore slump (that is partially/mostly BABIP related) make you forget about how good his track record is.

 

Rizzo is the more attractive future option on both sides of the ball. Any dream scenario should involve Rizzo realizing the huge hitting potential he possesses, because he could be that guy hitting mammoth homers you are pining for, and he will almost certainly be better than Vogelbach. Plus, that's without even considering defense, which isn't even a discussion.

 

Your dream for DV should be that either the NL adopts the DH in the next few years, or that he becomes a useful trade chip.

[imb]

i really dont like just going age+production divided by level = whatever

 

rizzo destroyed AAA at a young age, but here we are with a .230 hitter who can't OPS in the 800s for some mechanical reason we dont understand. I obviously think he's a better prospect than Vogelbach but it wouldn't be a shock if vogelbach comes all the way up with worse numbers but a swing that translates to the pros better.

 

of course, he'll give some amount of that back on defense so whatever

[Guest]

i really dont like just going age+production divided by level = whatever

 

rizzo destroyed AAA at a young age, but here we are with a .230 hitter who can't OPS in the 800s for some mechanical reason we dont understand. I obviously think he's a better prospect than Vogelbach but it wouldn't be a shock if vogelbach comes all the way up with worse numbers but a swing that translates to the pros better.

 

of course, he'll give some amount of that back on defense so whatever

 

a relatively huge amount of that, considering vogelbach is likely to be an extreme negative there while rizzo is an extreme positive.

 

that said, i think there's something to what you're saying offensively, but in this specific case, i think we shouldn't get carried away worrying about rizzo. let's see what an offseason with some adjustments and better BABIP luck do for him.

[davell]

They've said multiple times this season that Vogelbach has worked all year on going the opposite way and sacrificed power in doing so. But it's making him an improved hitter in the process. I'm very impressed with his numbers personally and think he could have been moved quicker, if not for this. I think it'd be awesome to have a great makeup, team leadering, fat guy that mashes in the middle of our lineup, but Rizzo is the answer for us at 1B. I want a DH though, because I really want Vogelbach in a Cubs lineup. But I think he could be dealt this offseason honestly, he's easily the most expendable good prospect we have.

[SABR Gamer]

i really dont like just going age+production divided by level = whatever

 

rizzo destroyed AAA at a young age, but here we are with a .230 hitter who can't OPS in the 800s for some mechanical reason we dont understand. I obviously think he's a better prospect than Vogelbach but it wouldn't be a shock if vogelbach comes all the way up with worse numbers but a swing that translates to the pros better.

 

of course, he'll give some amount of that back on defense so whatever

 

It has flaws, but it's still a pretty good way to look at it.

 

Plus Rizzo is only a .230 hitter who can't OPS .800 due to being unlucky. Yeah, the LD% went down, but I'm guessing not enough to account for how huge the drop in his BABIP has been.

 

I agree, Rizzo will need to make adjustments, BABIP bounce back or not, but he has always been a guy who has been praised for his makeup so I tend to believe he has a good chance to make those adjustments.

[Guest]

Vogelbach is not supplanting Rizzo and Olt is not good.

 

Oh God get over yourself, francis

 

I just don't know why you'd rather dream on Vogelbach panning out than Rizzo. A fully realized Rizzo is a much better player.

 

True, but this is my fantasy.

 

Your fantasy is based on the idea that Vogelbach has a higher offensive ceiling than Rizzo, when I don't even really think that's true.

 

At age 20 (Vogelbach this year), Rizzo was putting up an .814 with 25 HR at A+ and AA (heavy majority being at AA), while Vogelbach put up an .824 with 19 HR at A and A+ (heavy majority being at A).

 

So basically the same numbers at a full level higher, while having lost a year of development due to cancer treatment and STILL being ahead in his offensive progression. Rizzo then followed that up by posting a 1.056 at AAA at age 21, while Vogelbach will likely be starting next year at A+ at that age. Then at 22, an age at which Vogelbach will have to be lucky to have made it to AAA, Rizzo hit a combined 38 homers between AAA and MLB.

 

Rizzo will likely make adjustments next year. You are letting a sophomore slump (that is partially/mostly BABIP related) make you forget about how good his track record is.

 

Rizzo is the more attractive future option on both sides of the ball. Any dream scenario should involve Rizzo realizing the huge hitting potential he possesses, because he could be that guy hitting mammoth homers you are pining for, and he will almost certainly be better than Vogelbach. Plus, that's without even considering defense, which isn't even a discussion.

 

Your dream for DV should be that either the NL adopts the DH in the next few years, or that he becomes a useful trade chip.

 

Is Rizzo's offensive ceiling higher? Probably, but the real question is is he more likely to attain his ceiling than vogelbach? If Rizzo continues to be what he is, a sub 3 WAR player, it's hard not to think that Vogelbach could be better, on stick alone. Remember, this is a guy that really hasnt been in a slump, he's about as rock steady as they come at the plate, showing both patience and power with a mature approach. People love Rizzo for good reason, but he's got to show us why soon.

[SABR Gamer]

They've said multiple times this season that Vogelbach has worked all year on going the opposite way and sacrificed power in doing so. But it's making him an improved hitter in the process. I'm very impressed with his numbers personally and think he could have been moved quicker, if not for this. I think it'd be awesome to have a great makeup, team leadering, fat guy that mashes in the middle of our lineup, but Rizzo is the answer for us at 1B. I want a DH though, because I really want Vogelbach in a Cubs lineup. But I think he could be dealt this offseason honestly, he's easily the most expendable good prospect we have.

 

I know and understand that, but I still think Rizzo is/was the better prospect in general, even offensively. Like I said, Rizzo lost nearly an entire season due to cancer treatment (losing a full season without cancer is tough enough alone), and still managed to put up very impressive numbers the entire time.

 

Theo/Jed's obsession with Rizzo also speaks volumes to me about what they think of him, so maybe that leads me to be more bullish on Rizzo going forward than I should be.

[Guest]

Rizzo managed to be a top 50 prospect in baseball at one point despite being a 1B. I'd bet against Vogelbach ever doing that.

 

Not that that paints the entire picture. Just saying.

[SABR Gamer]

 

Oh God get over yourself, francis

 

I just don't know why you'd rather dream on Vogelbach panning out than Rizzo. A fully realized Rizzo is a much better player.

 

True, but this is my fantasy.

 

Your fantasy is based on the idea that Vogelbach has a higher offensive ceiling than Rizzo, when I don't even really think that's true.

 

At age 20 (Vogelbach this year), Rizzo was putting up an .814 with 25 HR at A+ and AA (heavy majority being at AA), while Vogelbach put up an .824 with 19 HR at A and A+ (heavy majority being at A).

 

So basically the same numbers at a full level higher, while having lost a year of development due to cancer treatment and STILL being ahead in his offensive progression. Rizzo then followed that up by posting a 1.056 at AAA at age 21, while Vogelbach will likely be starting next year at A+ at that age. Then at 22, an age at which Vogelbach will have to be lucky to have made it to AAA, Rizzo hit a combined 38 homers between AAA and MLB.

 

Rizzo will likely make adjustments next year. You are letting a sophomore slump (that is partially/mostly BABIP related) make you forget about how good his track record is.

 

Rizzo is the more attractive future option on both sides of the ball. Any dream scenario should involve Rizzo realizing the huge hitting potential he possesses, because he could be that guy hitting mammoth homers you are pining for, and he will almost certainly be better than Vogelbach. Plus, that's without even considering defense, which isn't even a discussion.

 

Your dream for DV should be that either the NL adopts the DH in the next few years, or that he becomes a useful trade chip.

 

Is Rizzo's offensive ceiling higher? Probably, but the real question is is he more likely to attain his ceiling than vogelbach? If Rizzo continues to be what he is, a sub 3 WAR player, it's hard not to think that Vogelbach could be better, on stick alone. Remember, this is a guy that really hasnt been in a slump, he's about as rock steady as they come at the plate, showing both patience and power with a mature approach. People love Rizzo for good reason, but he's got to show us why soon.

 

I can't disagree with any of that, I guess I'm just more confident in Rizzo's ability to make the necessary adjustments than you are.

[Guest]

Is there talk of the NL adopting the DH? I certainly hope so

[Guest]

Is there talk of the NL adopting the DH? I certainly hope so

 

There has been lots of speculation...but it's not gonna happen while Selig is still in charge.

 

You would think that with the constant interleague now, they'll eventually get to the point where they realize it's ridiculous for one league to have such a large advantage. And they're definitely not taking it away from the AL.

[SABR Gamer]

Is there talk of the NL adopting the DH? I certainly hope so

 

Me too...I would drool over Vogelbach as our future DH.

 

In no way am I anti-Vogelbach or think he doesn't have a promising future. I love the guy. I think they could both be mashers.

[Guest]

Is there talk of the NL adopting the DH? I certainly hope so

 

There has been lots of speculation...but it's not gonna happen while Selig is still in charge.

 

You would think that with the constant interleague now, they'll eventually get to the point where they realize it's ridiculous for one league to have such a large advantage. And they're definitely not taking it away from the AL.

 

Yeah, theres no way that that's fair at all. Stupid purist meatballs.

[Guest]

 

Oh God get over yourself, francis

 

I just don't know why you'd rather dream on Vogelbach panning out than Rizzo. A fully realized Rizzo is a much better player.

 

True, but this is my fantasy.

 

Your fantasy is based on the idea that Vogelbach has a higher offensive ceiling than Rizzo, when I don't even really think that's true.

 

At age 20 (Vogelbach this year), Rizzo was putting up an .814 with 25 HR at A+ and AA (heavy majority being at AA), while Vogelbach put up an .824 with 19 HR at A and A+ (heavy majority being at A).

 

So basically the same numbers at a full level higher, while having lost a year of development due to cancer treatment and STILL being ahead in his offensive progression. Rizzo then followed that up by posting a 1.056 at AAA at age 21, while Vogelbach will likely be starting next year at A+ at that age. Then at 22, an age at which Vogelbach will have to be lucky to have made it to AAA, Rizzo hit a combined 38 homers between AAA and MLB.

 

Rizzo will likely make adjustments next year. You are letting a sophomore slump (that is partially/mostly BABIP related) make you forget about how good his track record is.

 

Rizzo is the more attractive future option on both sides of the ball. Any dream scenario should involve Rizzo realizing the huge hitting potential he possesses, because he could be that guy hitting mammoth homers you are pining for, and he will almost certainly be better than Vogelbach. Plus, that's without even considering defense, which isn't even a discussion.

 

Your dream for DV should be that either the NL adopts the DH in the next few years, or that he becomes a useful trade chip.

 

Is Rizzo's offensive ceiling higher? Probably, but the real question is is he more likely to attain his ceiling than vogelbach? If Rizzo continues to be what he is, a sub 3 WAR player, it's hard not to think that Vogelbach could be better, on stick alone. Remember, this is a guy that really hasnt been in a slump, he's about as rock steady as they come at the plate, showing both patience and power with a mature approach. People love Rizzo for good reason, but he's got to show us why soon.

 

I can't disagree with any of that, I guess I'm just more confident in Rizzo's ability to make the necessary adjustments than you are.

 

Fair enough, and I hope youre right.

[davell]

Is there talk of the NL adopting the DH? I certainly hope so

 

There has been lots of speculation...but it's not gonna happen while Selig is still in charge.

 

You would think that with the constant interleague now, they'll eventually get to the point where they realize it's ridiculous for one league to have such a large advantage. And they're definitely not taking it away from the AL.

 

Yeah, theres no way that that's fair at all. Stupid purist meatballs.

Double switches are the most intricate thought processes in all of sport. Nay, in all of humanity.

[Irrelevant Dude]

Is there talk of the NL adopting the DH? I certainly hope so

 

There has been lots of speculation...but it's not gonna happen while Selig is still in charge.

 

You would think that with the constant interleague now, they'll eventually get to the point where they realize it's ridiculous for one league to have such a large advantage. And they're definitely not taking it away from the AL.

 

How is the DH an advantage for one league over the other?

 

Assuming an equal payroll for two teams, one in the AL and one in the NL, it just means that the teams will appropriate their funds differently. While the AL may have a slight advantage in an AL ballpark, they would probably argue that they are at a slight disadvantage in an NL ballpark since they lose one of their high-priced hitters.

[Rex Buckingham]

Is there talk of the NL adopting the DH? I certainly hope so

 

There has been lots of speculation...but it's not gonna happen while Selig is still in charge.

 

You would think that with the constant interleague now, they'll eventually get to the point where they realize it's ridiculous for one league to have such a large advantage. And they're definitely not taking it away from the AL.

 

How is the DH an advantage for one league over the other?

 

Assuming an equal payroll for two teams, one in the AL and one in the NL, it just means that the teams will appropriate their funds differently. While the AL may have a slight advantage in an AL ballpark, they would probably argue that they are at a slight disadvantage in an NL ballpark since they lose one of their high-priced hitters.

 

If nothing else, it gives AL teams the out of playing an aging hitter at DH who can't play the field that an NL team can't roster.

[Johnny Sleeper]

The DH also give the AL an advantage in FA. You think Pujols or Fielder get the contracts they do if the DH isn't there for them to play down the line? That is why no NL team would go close to the length they got. Selig has already announced his retirement after next season. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the NL doesn't get the DH in 2016 or 2017 with the new commissioner wanting to make an instant big move and that would be a big one. With all the changes to the game Selig has made, rather you love them or hate them, I can't see a new commissioner not wanting to make some kind of instant mark on the game to show they are going to keep "progressing" the game. We all know chicks dig the long ball and most fans prefer more offense and adding the DH to the NL provides more offense.

[manbearcub]

Agreed, hopefully we get a extra DHs for 2nd basemen and catchers as well.

[Johnny Sleeper]

Agreed, hopefully we get a extra DHs for 2nd basemen and catchers as well.

 

Cub catchers led the NL in OBP and OPS. As for 2B, Barney will be gone at some point next season so that will no longer be a black hole of offense. Alcantara is the most likely candidate who, like Barney, is a converted SS who has a very good glove at 2B and will provide some offense. Baez is the other option who again, should be good there defensively, and would provide a very good bat for the position. Before anyone says something stupid about errors for Baez at age 20 keep in mind that Barney had 27 errors at age 23 in AA and AAA in 137 games which is more then he has had in 470 games in the majors.

[imb]

@albertalmora 7m

 

Ghost screaming in haunted hotel - FULL LENGTH #wow

 

trade him