Juan "groundout to second" Pierre wants out

[Little Slide Rooter]

Pierre is actually a quintuplet with Bourne and Gathright. The other two are Alex Sanchez and Willy Taveras.

 

Rajai Davis and Nyjer Morgan cuertainly would have to join that family.

 

Willie Wilson fathered them all and Ced Landrum is a distant cousin.

 

Dont forget their distant white cousin Scotty Pods

[Guest]

Pierre is actually a quintuplet with Bourne and Gathright. The other two are Alex Sanchez and Willy Taveras.

 

Rajai Davis and Nyjer Morgan cuertainly would have to join that family.

 

Willie Wilson fathered them all and Ced Landrum is a distant cousin.

 

Dont forget their distant white cousin Scotty Pods

 

Tom Goodwin is just a distant cousin.

[illiniguy]

Pierre is actually a quintuplet with Bourne and Gathright. The other two are Alex Sanchez and Willy Taveras.

 

Rajai Davis and Nyjer Morgan cuertainly would have to join that family.

 

Willie Wilson fathered them all and Ced Landrum is a distant cousin.

 

Dont forget their distant white cousin Scotty Pods

 

Tom Goodwin is just a distant cousin.

What about Curtis?

[Mephistopheles]

I love seeing the argument that speed on first base distracts the pitcher. Studies have shown that it distracts the batter too, generally causing them to do worse (though not by a terribly significant amount).

 

The bulk of the value in speed comes from taking the extra base on a hit, and in extended fielding range. Net SB value is usually quite low, even for the most prolific of baserunners. Speed can certainly be a valuable tool for a player to have. But it is a secondary tool... closer in value to crowding the plate and being able to get a bunt down than it is to hitting or fielding in all but the most extreme of circumstances.

 

Can you hook me up with some links? I'd love to read this.

 

Not really saying a SB is high in value, rather speed has value on the basepaths.

 

There is a lot of stuff on it if you use google. BP has done the most work on it.

 

heres more or less an all encompassing offensive baserunning stat (the units are runs)

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=421535

[Rob]

Personally, I don't think it really has a distracting effect on the hitter. The differences in the numbers are probably largely a combination of two things (though there's no way to test either of them with any accuracy).

 

1.) Managers tell their hitters in the two hole, or their crappy hitters to be more patient when a stolen base threat is on.

2.) Pure hit and runs and safe hit and runs put hitters at a disadvantage.

 

Obviously there probably is an effect subconsciously to hitter, but there are things working consistently against his favor that he has no control over. Then again we'd expect him to more fastballs, have more opposite field holes to hit in and that in general more ABs come against crappy pitchers with stolen base threats on (because crappy pitchers let batters on first more frequently!) So things are pulling both ways. I think its a washfor all practical purposes myself.

 

Personally I'm inclined to agree that it's a wash. But I'm not above citing the numbers just to stop the stupid argument dead in its tracks.

[Tarver]

Personally, I don't think it really has a distracting effect on the hitter. The differences in the numbers are probably largely a combination of two things (though there's no way to test either of them with any accuracy).

 

1.) Managers tell their hitters in the two hole, or their crappy hitters to be more patient when a stolen base threat is on.

2.) Pure hit and runs and safe hit and runs put hitters at a disadvantage.

 

Obviously there probably is an effect subconsciously to hitter, but there are things working consistently against his favor that he has no control over. Then again we'd expect him to more fastballs, have more opposite field holes to hit in and that in general more ABs come against crappy pitchers with stolen base threats on (because crappy pitchers let batters on first more frequently!) So things are pulling both ways. I think its a washfor all practical purposes myself.

 

Personally I'm inclined to agree that it's a wash. But I'm not above citing the numbers just to stop the stupid argument dead in its tracks.

 

No [expletive]. Arguing about guys that may have had some value when turf was the norm.

 

The '85 Cardinals couldn't compete nowadays, kids. The [expletive] Astros don't even play on turf, and they invented it.

[biittner77]

Personally, I don't think it really has a distracting effect on the hitter. The differences in the numbers are probably largely a combination of two things (though there's no way to test either of them with any accuracy).

 

1.) Managers tell their hitters in the two hole, or their crappy hitters to be more patient when a stolen base threat is on.

2.) Pure hit and runs and safe hit and runs put hitters at a disadvantage.

 

Obviously there probably is an effect subconsciously to hitter, but there are things working consistently against his favor that he has no control over. Then again we'd expect him to more fastballs, have more opposite field holes to hit in and that in general more ABs come against crappy pitchers with stolen base threats on (because crappy pitchers let batters on first more frequently!) So things are pulling both ways. I think its a washfor all practical purposes myself.

 

Personally I'm inclined to agree that it's a wash. But I'm not above citing the numbers just to stop the stupid argument dead in its tracks.

 

No [expletive]. Arguing about guys that may have had some value when turf was the norm.

 

The '85 Cardinals couldn't compete nowadays, kids. The [expletive] Astros don't even play on turf, and they invented it.

 

I'd like to see what their individual obp were. Based on fuzzy memories it seems like they got on base a lot and scored lots of runs.

[Tracer Bullet]

Personally, I don't think it really has a distracting effect on the hitter. The differences in the numbers are probably largely a combination of two things (though there's no way to test either of them with any accuracy).

 

1.) Managers tell their hitters in the two hole, or their crappy hitters to be more patient when a stolen base threat is on.

2.) Pure hit and runs and safe hit and runs put hitters at a disadvantage.

 

Obviously there probably is an effect subconsciously to hitter, but there are things working consistently against his favor that he has no control over. Then again we'd expect him to more fastballs, have more opposite field holes to hit in and that in general more ABs come against crappy pitchers with stolen base threats on (because crappy pitchers let batters on first more frequently!) So things are pulling both ways. I think its a washfor all practical purposes myself.

 

Personally I'm inclined to agree that it's a wash. But I'm not above citing the numbers just to stop the stupid argument dead in its tracks.

 

No [expletive]. Arguing about guys that may have had some value when turf was the norm.

 

The '85 Cardinals couldn't compete nowadays, kids. The [expletive] Astros don't even play on turf, and they invented it.

 

I'd like to see what their individual obp were. Based on fuzzy memories it seems like they got on base a lot and scored lots of runs.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/STL/1985.shtml

 

ETA - mostly very good, but man did Pendleton suck.

 

Oh - and Coleman swiped 110/135 bases. wow.

[TruffleShuffle]

my favorite stat from that team was tommie herr's 8 home runs but 110 rbi. i can't remember anybody getting that many rbi with a single-digit number of hr's.

[B]

 

Willie Wilson fathered them all and Ced Landrum is a distant cousin.

 

Dont forget their distant white cousin Scotty Pods

 

Tom Goodwin is just a distant cousin.

What about Curtis?

didn't he retire by leaving a note in his locker.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Im shocked that The White Sox arent even exploring the option of Pierre. Every time I turn on the score, they complia about no leadoff hitter and no center fielder. Pierre could fill those spots. Granted he isnt what he once was, but he can still hit .280-.290 and more importantly steal 50 bases, which is something that team lacks big time. Besides, he must have some relatinship with Ozzie from their Marlins days. He wants out of LA. LA wants him out of LA. Just trade him for Brian Anderson and Mike McDougal and call it a day.

[Tarver]

Pierre can't play CF anymore. As terrible a hitter he is, Patterson would make more sense for the Sox. At least he'll be cheap.

[SouthSideRyan]

Pierre can't play CF anymore. As terrible a hitter he is, Patterson would make more sense for the Sox. At least he'll be cheap.

 

And he costs 30M less.

 

Juan Pierre in CF(and the subsequent smallball stupidity it would bring) probably makes the White Sox a worse team. And that's considering DeWayne Wise is their current CF.

[Andy]

Im shocked that The White Sox arent even exploring the option of Pierre. Every time I turn on the score, they complia about no leadoff hitter and no center fielder. Pierre could fill those spots. Granted he isnt what he once was, but he can still hit .280-.290 and more importantly steal 50 bases, which is something that team lacks big time. Besides, he must have some relatinship with Ozzie from their Marlins days. He wants out of LA. LA wants him out of LA. Just trade him for Brian Anderson and Mike McDougal and call it a day.

I disagree with you completely but really hope Kenny Williams saw this post and only this post out of this thread.