Juan "groundout to second" Pierre wants out

[RedFlash]

At this point I'd rather have Gathright over Pierre. Even if the contracts were equal.

 

Man, that sure spells out how far Mighty Juan has fallen...

 

What about the final piece of the triplets..........Michael Bourne?

 

To be honest, I'd rather give WWE's Evan Bourne (aka Matt Sydal) a glove and see what happens than any of the above...

 

=D>

[Little Slide Rooter]

At this point I'd rather have Gathright over Pierre. Even if the contracts were equal.

 

Man, that sure spells out how far Mighty Juan has fallen...

 

What about the final piece of the triplets..........Michael Bourne?

 

To be honest, I'd rather give WWE's Evan Bourne (aka Matt Sydal) a glove and see what happens than any of the above...

 

=D>

 

Bourne cant do anything that the Mexican Luchadores havnt been doing for decades.

[Tarver]

Juan Pierre might have a little value if he could play SS adequately. And I mean just might.

[wade]

Juan Pierre might have a little value if he could play SS adequately. And I mean just might.

 

No way he can throw a ball from short to first.

[NonProfitCow]

Love the title "Juan "groundout to second" Pierre wants out."

 

I guess .300 career hitter and 50 SB threat were already taken.

Awesome

[Clem Fandango]

I remember when a throwing error was made on a Juan Pierre ground ball that one of the announcers (not sure if it was a WGN, ESPN, or visiting team telecast) said that they should create a stat category called "Errors Created" because Juan Pierre's speed causes players to throw over aggressively and quicker than normal and it causes them to make mistakes.

 

#-o

[Wheelimus]

At this point I'd rather have Gathright over Pierre. Even if the contracts were equal.

 

Man, that sure spells out how far Mighty Juan has fallen...

 

What about the final piece of the triplets..........Michael Bourne?

 

To be honest, I'd rather give WWE's Evan Bourne (aka Matt Sydal) a glove and see what happens than any of the above...

 

=D>

 

Bourne cant do anything that the Mexican Luchadores havnt been doing for decades.

 

True. Though one could make a similar statement about all of our current and past Cub heroes. They weren't really doing anything that those who came before them hadn't done.

 

Well, other than Sammy perhaps. :-))

 

I'll say this. I've never seen a nicer Shooting Star Press than Bourne's. And I'm fairly confident he'd have a better outfield arm than Pierre.

 

Some days I think I would...

[Guest]

Pierre is actually a quintuplet with Bourne and Gathright. The other two are Alex Sanchez and Willy Taveras.

[cubbinalltheway]

I remember when a throwing error was made on a Juan Pierre ground ball that one of the announcers (not sure if it was a WGN, ESPN, or visiting team telecast) said that they should create a stat category called "Errors Created" because Juan Pierre's speed causes players to throw over aggressively and quicker than normal and it causes them to make mistakes.

 

#-o

well, the bolded part is certainly true, but creating an errors created category is silly.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Pierre is actually a quintuplet with Bourne and Gathright. The other two are Alex Sanchez and Willy Taveras.

 

Rajai Davis and Nyjer Morgan cuertainly would have to join that family.

[sneakypower]

not that i have any special affection for the guy, but it's puzzling how if somebody speaks ill of say, mark bellhorn, droves of people come in to defend him, but pierre, who's actually had a reasonably productive MLB career in comparison, gets piled on mercilessly

[fromthestretch]

I remember when a throwing error was made on a Juan Pierre ground ball that one of the announcers (not sure if it was a WGN, ESPN, or visiting team telecast) said that they should create a stat category called "Errors Created" because Juan Pierre's speed causes players to throw over aggressively and quicker than normal and it causes them to make mistakes.

 

#-o

well, the bolded part is certainly true, but creating an errors created category is silly.

 

Juan Pierre reached on an error a grand total of six times in 162 games in 2007 (the last time he was a starter). Chase Utley, who I think we can all agree isn't as fast as Pierre, reached on an error five times in 159 games in 2008.

[cubbinalltheway]

I remember when a throwing error was made on a Juan Pierre ground ball that one of the announcers (not sure if it was a WGN, ESPN, or visiting team telecast) said that they should create a stat category called "Errors Created" because Juan Pierre's speed causes players to throw over aggressively and quicker than normal and it causes them to make mistakes.

 

#-o

well, the bolded part is certainly true, but creating an errors created category is silly.

 

Juan Pierre reached on an error a grand total of six times in 162 games in 2007 (the last time he was a starter). Chase Utley, who I think we can all agree isn't as fast as Pierre, reached on an error five times in 159 games in 2008.

okay?

 

are you really trying to suggest that a defender doesnt rush when there's a juan pierre running down the line as opposed to a prince fielder?

[Tracer Bullet]

not that i have any special affection for the guy, but it's puzzling how if somebody speaks ill of say, mark bellhorn, droves of people come in to defend him, but pierre, who's actually had a reasonably productive MLB career in comparison, gets piled on mercilessly

 

I'm not remembering how we acquired Bellhorn, but I don't think it was for 3 prospects, at least 2 of which have had some success in the majors for Florida (Mitre may be nothing, but he was roughly league average for a year in '07). For whatever success JP has had in the majors, he had 700 pretty brutal ABs for us.

[Post Count Padder]

not that i have any special affection for the guy, but it's puzzling how if somebody speaks ill of say, mark bellhorn, droves of people come in to defend him, but pierre, who's actually had a reasonably productive MLB career in comparison, gets piled on mercilessly

 

I'm not remembering how we acquired Bellhorn, but I don't think it was for 3 prospects, at least 2 of which have had some success in the majors for Florida (Mitre may be nothing, but he was roughly league average for a year in '07). For whatever success JP has had in the majors, he had 700 pretty brutal ABs for us.

Yeah, the prospect we gave up for Bellhorn never made it to the majors. And Bellhorn wasn't a slap hitter with a low OBP like Pierre.

[SouthSideRyan]

I remember when a throwing error was made on a Juan Pierre ground ball that one of the announcers (not sure if it was a WGN, ESPN, or visiting team telecast) said that they should create a stat category called "Errors Created" because Juan Pierre's speed causes players to throw over aggressively and quicker than normal and it causes them to make mistakes.

 

#-o

well, the bolded part is certainly true, but creating an errors created category is silly.

 

Juan Pierre reached on an error a grand total of six times in 162 games in 2007 (the last time he was a starter). Chase Utley, who I think we can all agree isn't as fast as Pierre, reached on an error five times in 159 games in 2008.

okay?

 

are you really trying to suggest that a defender doesnt rush when there's a juan pierre running down the line as opposed to a prince fielder?

 

Maybe Fielder is so slow that the defender takes too long and overthinks chucking it into the stands. What exactly are you disputing in grassbass's post? Those are facts about the # of times these guys reached base on error.

[cubbinalltheway]

I remember when a throwing error was made on a Juan Pierre ground ball that one of the announcers (not sure if it was a WGN, ESPN, or visiting team telecast) said that they should create a stat category called "Errors Created" because Juan Pierre's speed causes players to throw over aggressively and quicker than normal and it causes them to make mistakes.

 

#-o

well, the bolded part is certainly true, but creating an errors created category is silly.

 

Juan Pierre reached on an error a grand total of six times in 162 games in 2007 (the last time he was a starter). Chase Utley, who I think we can all agree isn't as fast as Pierre, reached on an error five times in 159 games in 2008.

okay?

 

are you really trying to suggest that a defender doesnt rush when there's a juan pierre running down the line as opposed to a prince fielder?

 

Maybe Fielder is so slow that the defender takes too long and overthinks chucking it into the stands. What exactly are you disputing in grassbass's post? Those are facts about the # of times these guys reached base on error.

i'm not disputing anything in his post, other than his implication that fielders don't rush when a fast guy is running down the line. everyone on here has watched enough baseball to know that when a "speedster" hits a grounder on the infield, the defenders often times rush their throw, rather than doing a crow hop cause ryan howard is running down the line.

[SouthSideRyan]

And grassbass showed that this rushing has gotten Juan 1(maybe 2) extra base compared to an average baserunner.

[SouthSideRyan]

Juan Pierre ground balls: Reached on error 56 times out of 2503 possibilites.

 

Aramis Ramirez ground balls: Reached on error 49 times out of 1548 chances.

[Clem Fandango]

Didn't feel like making a separate thread since it's pretty much the same identical situation, but Gary Matthews Jr has said he'd waive his no trade clause since he's penciled in as the 5th outfielder for the Angels...

 

Gary Matthews Jr. was allowed a day away from camp Sunday after manager Mike Scioscia revealed in a closed-door meeting that he will be the club's fifth outfielder to start the season.

Matthews reportedly stormed out of the meeting in frustration. "Gary has made it clear to us that he wants to play every day, but right now, that's not where we're at," Scioscia said. "That's not to say it won't happen at some point of the season." Matthews told reporters that he'd be willing to waive his no-trade clause if the Angels can swing a deal, but the $33 million remaining on his contract should make that nearly impossible.

 

Such wise investments

[sneakypower]

not that i have any special affection for the guy, but it's puzzling how if somebody speaks ill of say, mark bellhorn, droves of people come in to defend him, but pierre, who's actually had a reasonably productive MLB career in comparison, gets piled on mercilessly

 

I'm not remembering how we acquired Bellhorn, but I don't think it was for 3 prospects, at least 2 of which have had some success in the majors for Florida (Mitre may be nothing, but he was roughly league average for a year in '07). For whatever success JP has had in the majors, he had 700 pretty brutal ABs for us.

Yeah, the prospect we gave up for Bellhorn never made it to the majors. And Bellhorn wasn't a slap hitter with a low OBP like Pierre.

~ league average = low?

 

ricky nolasco would have been traded for crap the likes of Garrett Olson or Andy Pratt long before he ever developed, had we kept him.

[cubbinalltheway]

And grassbass showed that this rushing has gotten Juan 1(maybe 2) extra base compared to an average baserunner.

this is a case where using conventional methods (i.e. actually watching) rather than stats probably wins. that or just using simple logic, of course.

[Sammy Sofa]

And grassbass showed that this rushing has gotten Juan 1(maybe 2) extra base compared to an average baserunner.

this is a case where using conventional methods (i.e. actually watching) rather than stats probably wins. that or just using simple logic, of course.

 

I'll just repeat some of that simple logic then:

 

Juan Pierre ground balls: Reached on error 56 times out of 2503 possibilites.

 

Aramis Ramirez ground balls: Reached on error 49 times out of 1548 chances.

[CarolinaCubFan]

And grassbass showed that this rushing has gotten Juan 1(maybe 2) extra base compared to an average baserunner.

this is a case where using conventional methods (i.e. actually watching) rather than stats probably wins. that or just using simple logic, of course.

 

What about infield singles?

[fromthestretch]

And grassbass showed that this rushing has gotten Juan 1(maybe 2) extra base compared to an average baserunner.

this is a case where using conventional methods (i.e. actually watching) rather than stats probably wins. that or just using simple logic, of course.

 

No, it doesn't.

 

What does it matter if a fielder has to rush his throw when the rate at which an error is made doesn't really go up in that situation? If Pierre reaches base two more times via error than another player over the same number of plate appearances, does that really make a difference over the course of a season? Do those two times outweigh his low OPS?