Cubs Fifth Starter Discussion

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

One of the few spots up for grabs this spring is the fifth starter, so I thought I would start a thread where we could discuss that.

 

Barring a trade or an unexpected signing, it appears the leading candidates are Sean Marshall, Aaron Heilman,Jeff Samardzilla, Chad Gaudin, and the dark horse Mitch Atkins.

 

Marshall appears to be the front runner according to Lou.

 

"Marshall, to me, has gotten better," Cubs manager Lou Piniella said after the first day of spring workouts Saturday. "I liked him my first year here. I liked him a whole lot better last year."

 

"I like him in the rotation, so we'll see how that works out," Piniella said. "If Sean pitches the way I anticipate and stays healthy, he's got a leg up for the fifth spot."

 

Link.

[Little Slide Rooter]

After the last few years, the spot should be Marshalls to win or lose. If someone like Heilman or Shark wow Lou in ST, then by all means, they should earn it, but if the all look similar, it should go to Marshall.

[Derwood]

I think it's Marshall's spot to lose, but I fear that Lou's quick leash on guys not throwing strikes, matched with his need to coddle veterans (re: Heilman wants to start), will mean Sean won't get a fair shot. We'll see

[tfarks]

Yes, Marshall, that one is easy.

 

The question to me is do they leave Samardzija up with the team or put him in the rotation at AAA?

 

Marmol/Gregg/Heilman/Guzman/Cotts/Gaudin is a good bullpen.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Another thing is that I wouldnt be sholced if Heilman got the spot, and Marshall was given loogy duty simply because Lou, much like the rest of the baseball world doesnt trust Cotts as the only lefty in the pen.

 

As Ive said numerous times, the answer to that is simple. Pick up Joe Beimal. At this point he'll be cheap. Real cheap. Probably around what we're paying Cotts now.

 

Also I hope that the established veteran Vizcaino doesn end up booting Guzman back to AAA simply because he is an established veteran.

[Mephistopheles]

angel

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I'm rather partial to Heilman, but Marshall is probably better. Another three-lefty rotation for the Cubs.

[SouthSideRyan]

angel

 

I don't trust him to ever stay healthy outside of a bullpen role.

[cubsfan26]

As Ive said numerous times, the answer to that is simple. Pick up Joe Beimal. At this point he'll be cheap. Real cheap. Probably around what we're paying Cotts now.

 

 

Not really Beimal said a bunch of teams were offering him low ball deals, and he hasn't got a fair contract offer all offseason. So he would have to choose the Cubs low offer over about 5-8 other teams if he wanted to come here still.

[cubbinalltheway]

angel

now there's a quality post.

 

i agree with those who say it's marshall's job to lose. he's done everything asked of him the last couple years, and deserves a legitimate shot at the rotation. i think shark needs more seasoning prior to being an mlb starter.

[weis21]

Another three-lefty rotation for the Cubs.

 

:-k

[Derwood]

using someone with Marshall's endurance as a LOOGY is would be really dumb

[TruffleShuffle]

angel

 

I don't trust him to ever stay healthy outside of a bullpen role.

 

i don't trust him to ever stay healthy in a bullpen role either, but that's probably his best shot at doing so.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Another three-lefty rotation for the Cubs.

 

:-k

 

I was thinking Heilman was lefty and would be in there with Harden hurt. Oops.

[Mephistopheles]

angel

now there's a quality post.

 

i agree with those who say it's marshall's job to lose. he's done everything asked of him the last couple years, and deserves a legitimate shot at the rotation. i think shark needs more seasoning prior to being an mlb starter.

 

Thank you. Your honesty and quality of posting is an inspiration for us all.

 

angel

 

I don't trust him to ever stay healthy outside of a bullpen role.

 

Probably not, but given that he is healthy now one thing you don't do is completely eliminate him from the slot before spring training. If he's healthy there's no question he is the best option and there's probably no question he will outperform the others this spring.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

What's the best case scenario for Guzman in the rotation? He's thrown 60 IP the last two years combined, there's no way you get a starter's workload out of him. So you use him up in the rotation and maybe get 100 IP out of him but then he's done for the year and you're back where you started by June. Or you can use him in the pen, monitor his workload, and have him available for the whole year, where he'll be just as valuable with 60 leveraged innings. Plus, the best of Marshall, Heilman, Samardzija is pretty good anyway, so there's not a steep dropoff in the 5th spot

[17 Seconds]

Another thing is that I wouldnt be sholced if Heilman got the spot, and Marshall was given loogy duty simply because Lou, much like the rest of the baseball world doesnt trust Cotts as the only lefty in the pen.

 

As Ive said numerous times, the answer to that is simple. Pick up Joe Beimal. At this point he'll be cheap. Real cheap. Probably around what we're paying Cotts now.

 

Also I hope that the established veteran Vizcaino doesn end up booting Guzman back to AAA simply because he is an established veteran.

 

Beimel isn't really a loogy though, he's just a lefty.

[weis21]

Another three-lefty rotation for the Cubs.

 

:-k

 

I was thinking Heilman was lefty and would be in there with Harden hurt. Oops.

No big deal, I was just wondering if I had missed something significant.

 

As for as this discussion, I'd too vote for Marshall over the others. Although, it will be interesting to see how Heilman looks this spring. I'd have no problem with him either if he earns it and let Marshall piggyback Harden/spot start.

[NCCubFan]

The question to me is do they leave Samardzija up with the team or put him in the rotation at AAA?

I hope they keep him stretched out as a starter in Iowa so he could come up and join the rotation if somebody gets injured.

[Cubswin11]

The question to me is do they leave Samardzija up with the team or put him in the rotation at AAA?

I hope they keep him stretched out as a starter in Iowa so he could come up and join the rotation if somebody gets injured.

Unless Samardzija made serious progress this offseason I think he starts in AAA as a starter to stay stretched out and to work multiple innings. It was clear his secondary stuff was lacking last year and he would get hammered if he starts this year and hasn't improved on that stuff. His Slider/Split/Change all need work and he needs to throw more strikes. Plus we got that guy in the Rule 5/V and even if he sucks he will probably start the season in the BP so we can at least see if he has anything and not just waste money. I think Guzman will start in AAA as well as a starter to get stretched out and get regular work, unless he has a really good/healthy spring.

I think Gaudin could be the sleeper for the #5 spot. I know he was real bad with us last year, but he was putting up good numbers in Oakland before the trade and he was injured with us. Also he wasn't terrible in his 1 season as a starter, 34GS 11W 199IP 154K 100BB 4.4ERA 1.5WHIP, it looks like he just needs to limit his BB's and he could be an effective #4/5. Those are pretty much Marquis like numbers, except with more K's and BB's, but the same results.

[CubbieBum]

Marshall has shown to be a dependable backend starter and frankly hasn't been treated fairly. Is he going to dominate? No but he can consistently give you 6 innings 3 runs outings. The only way I support not putting Marshall there is if Smarz looks great and looks ready to be a starter. He's our future rotation guy but if he isn't ready then Marshall should get the 5th spot because he has shown he can do it.

[17 Seconds]

I think Gaudin could be the sleeper for the #5 spot. I know he was real bad with us last year

 

He wasn't really that bad with the Cubs either. He had like 2 or 3 awful games that destroyed his numbers, and I think all but one of them came after he got hurt.

[wvcbxl]

Probably not, but given that he is healthy now one thing you don't do is completely eliminate him from the slot before spring training. If he's healthy there's no question he is the best option and there's probably no question he will outperform the others this spring.

 

I doubt the Cubs will risk Guzman's health by letting him try his hand at starting in 2009. They'll probably be quite happy if he can stay healthy and contribute from the pen this season.

But if things go well and if he is still interested, they may be tempted to let him follow the Depmster route back to starting at some point in the future (providing there will be a window of opportunity for a rotation spot)

[Cynosure]

Samardzija

[SouthSideRyan]

The question to me is do they leave Samardzija up with the team or put him in the rotation at AAA?

I hope they keep him stretched out as a starter in Iowa so he could come up and join the rotation if somebody gets injured.

Rule V stuff

 

That Rule V guy stands no chance of sticking.