Sammy Sosa and Steroids

[Monco]

I remember hearing a story about him losing or getting about 15 grand stolen from him. He had it in a brown paper bag in a hotel lobby in the Dominican. He was still with the Cubs at the time.

 

For those who didn't know that steroids were being used before 2003,the signs were there. Brady Anderson hitting 50,Steve Finley going from 5 a year to 30 etc. People chose not to look or were just naive and gullible.Flintstones vitamins,better training,nutrition,come on people,why are you so surprised?.Were you were caught up in the moments?.Sammy and Mac chasing 60,Barry etc.

 

Steroids are all over .They talk about hitters,how about pitchers? I remember when having a few guys throwing 90 was a big deal. I have trouble believing that steroids are giving an unfair advantage because I believe most are or have used.Hitters and pitchers.Steroids are used in cycles and they have an idea when they'll be tested.They use during the off season and cycle off before the season.Then there is HGH which is undetectable.

 

Football raves about their great testing program and people fall for it.Why,because they say they have a great testing program and hardly anybody gets caught? People used to believe Hulk Hogan crediting his size on the "prayers and the vitamins" and they still believe politicians are telling them the truth.

[weis21]

I just always kind of assumed that Sammy went back home to the Dominican Republic for the Winter and roided his brains out. Did he do it here in the US? Who knows? But, after all the money he donated to his home town in the Dominican, who the hell would blow the whistle on him?

 

Of course I hope that he didn't and I would never say he did for sure. But, if a 14 year old boy can take notice of a substantial difference in body mass within a few months during the offseason, then it is a little peculiar.

 

I just kinda assumed after the whole corked bat incident that if he was going far enough to cork his bats, then what would stop you from roiding?

[The Other 15]

http://www.wisecamel.com/images/Sosa%20B%20and%20A%203.jpg

 

After college, I managed two health clubs in the Chicago area. If you want to learn about roids, work in Melrose Parks Ballys Health Club. You'll find more syringes there than Loyolas Medical Center a couple of miles away. I'll say this. I know competitive body builders and both guys say that you don't get that big, without chemical aids. A thin, wiry frame, does not develop that much muscle mass without help. It's physically impossible. Anybody that bag, that claims they are natural, are liars. You want huge muscle mass, you must have the bone structure to develop it naturally. You'll look more like one of those guys from the worlds strongest man (also roiders) than Arnold (king roider) during his glory days. The human body simply doesn't do that naturally.

[Monco]

I remember hearing a college football announcer talking about how a player put on 30-40 pounds over the summer before his freshmen year. Nobody questioned it.

 

People attribute it to being young,training hard and eating right. Then,they give credit to the strength coach for his training regimen .

[Andy]

I've seen that picture of Sammy numerous times and I'm starting to wonder if it's modified in some way. I've seen many pictures of 'big' Sammy and none where his arms looked like that.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

http://www.wisecamel.com/images/Sosa%20B%20and%20A%203.jpg

.

 

I'm firmly in the "he almost certainly was using" camp, but those photos aren't remotely useful.

[imb]

I've seen that picture of Sammy numerous times and I'm starting to wonder if it's modified in some way. I've seen many pictures of 'big' Sammy and none where his arms looked like that.

 

by the looks of it, it was taken not long after a workout, when everyone looks about 15 times better than they do in real life

[wrigley23]

for those that dig in their heels & discount the very obvious signs, I'll let you continue to believe in Santa. These are the same people who don't watch the 10:00 news because it is "so negative".

[salukifudd]

for those that dig in their heels & discount the very obvious signs, I'll let you continue to believe in Santa. These are the same people who don't watch the 10:00 news because it is "so negative".

 

Cubbiebum, get on this.

[Derwood]

there's definitely a double-standard between Baseball and other sports. I mean, look how huge someone like LeBron was at age 18. He gets credit as a "perfect athletic specimen" and no one blinks an eye that a teenager can be built like that. Did people ever mention steroids in the same breath as, say, Karl Malone? Shaq?

[wade]

there's definitely a double-standard between Baseball and other sports. I mean, look how huge someone like LeBron was at age 18. He gets credit as a "perfect athletic specimen" and no one blinks an eye that a teenager can be built like that. Did people ever mention steroids in the same breath as, say, Karl Malone? Shaq?

 

I have, but I'm nobody.

[Soul]

I believe he likely used, but there isn't the level of proof that there is with other players.

 

Maybe Sammy was just much smarter than people thought he was. Certainly smarter than a guy like Bonds, who left a trail of evidence leading to his doorstep about a mile long. Certainly smarter than McGwire, who apparently allowed other people to inject him (that's pretty much idiotic). Much smarter than Palmiero, who lied before Congress and then continued using *after* his testimony. And certainly smarter than ARod, who knew about his positive test and then went on the record with lies to 60 minutes 3 days after the Mitchell report.

[imb]

Speaking of LeBron, did anyone see the SI article that said he weighs 270 pounds? yeesh

[Mephistopheles]

For those who didn't know that steroids were being used before 2003,the signs were there. Brady Anderson hitting 50,Steve Finley going from 5 a year to 30 etc.

 

terrible argument. its not as if players went from weak power hitters to good ones in the thirties and twenties.

[Monco]

For those who didn't know that steroids were being used before 2003,the signs were there. Brady Anderson hitting 50,Steve Finley going from 5 a year to 30 etc.

 

terrible argument. its not as if players went from weak power hitters to good ones in the thirties and twenties.

Its not that bad,but its debatable. Smaller strike zones,weaker pitching, and other things can be attributed to the surge in home runs.When I see someone take that large of a jump after 4-5 years in the league I have to wonder A player in the league for a few years looking to take it to the next level may decide to start. Steroids may give him a mental edge too. He will feel stronger,confident and aggressive. Steroids are not just for getting bigger. They help the body by allowing it to recover faster. Taking a steroid alone will not cause the incredible gains,but its part of a package. The fact is that today HGH is being used and its undetectable. So,professional sports point the finger at steroids and try to devise programs to stop the use. Well,HGH did that. They're testing yesterdays problem and patting themselves on the back like their doing the right thing today.

[SouthSideRyan]

http://www.wisecamel.com/images/Sosa%20B%20and%20A%203.jpg

 

After college, I managed two health clubs in the Chicago area. If you want to learn about roids, work in Melrose Parks Ballys Health Club. You'll find more syringes there than Loyolas Medical Center a couple of miles away. I'll say this. I know competitive body builders and both guys say that you don't get that big, without chemical aids. A thin, wiry frame, does not develop that much muscle mass without help. It's physically impossible. Anybody that bag, that claims they are natural, are liars. You want huge muscle mass, you must have the bone structure to develop it naturally. You'll look more like one of those guys from the worlds strongest man (also roiders) than Arnold (king roider) during his glory days. The human body simply doesn't do that naturally.

 

I'm guessing the guys at Bally's weren't from third world countries.

[bcl412]

http://www.wisecamel.com/images/Sosa%20B%20and%20A%203.jpg

 

After college, I managed two health clubs in the Chicago area. If you want to learn about roids, work in Melrose Parks Ballys Health Club. You'll find more syringes there than Loyolas Medical Center a couple of miles away. I'll say this. I know competitive body builders and both guys say that you don't get that big, without chemical aids. A thin, wiry frame, does not develop that much muscle mass without help. It's physically impossible. Anybody that bag, that claims they are natural, are liars. You want huge muscle mass, you must have the bone structure to develop it naturally. You'll look more like one of those guys from the worlds strongest man (also roiders) than Arnold (king roider) during his glory days. The human body simply doesn't do that naturally.

 

I'm guessing the guys at Bally's weren't from third world countries.

 

Exactly, it's very possible that Sosa's natural frame wasn't thin and wire but he was underweight because of where he was from.

[Roast]

This thread really needs a roast-post. Or not, but oh well.

 

As others have pointed out, pretty much every piece of evidence people hold against Sammy is either completely circumstantial or just plain useless. We can compare side-by-side pictures all we want, but they don't really tell you much. Even those two pictures The other 15% used don't tell you much of anything. Like IMB pointed out, if that was taken after a workout, his muscles would have looked much larger than normal since they would still be warm, etc. Also, the angle his arms are at in that picture could very well make them look much bigger than they actually are. With his arms at that diagonal angle they look massive, but in reality that may not be so. As for the other picture, the sleeves of his jersey make it very hard to see how much muscle is/isn't there. Not to mention you're looking at two pictures taken probably 12 years apart. A year-by-year comparison may paint a much different story. And such is the problem with photos.

 

With that said, there is still no denying Sosa bulked up a lot after being in the big leagues for a few years. SouthSide pointed this out a little earlier, but the difference between someone like Sammy bulking up and say, Barry Bonds, is that Bonds was never mal-nourished. I read that when Sosa first came to America he was terribly malnourished and completely underweight. Remember, he lived pretty poorly in a third world country. Bonds, on the other had, never had that problem. Furthermore, once Sosa was in America, pretty much all of his teammates will tell you that he became a complete gym rat. Which, one could argue was a result of the 'roids giving him extra energy/stamina/whatever to work out that long. Conversely it also may very well account for his seemingly rapid growth.

 

Some also say the corked bat incident proves sammy was a cheater. Now, sammy of course had his defense, which whether you believe it or not was at least a rational series of events. Even if he was completely intentionally corking his bat, to say that proves his steroid use is asinine. It may cast more suspicion, but beyond that it's not worth much.

 

Then there's the head size thing, which takes you right back to the picture problem. You can make a persons dome look massive or minuscule or anywhere in between based on the angle the photo is taken at. So until someone actually finds some measurements, the head size argument is pretty worthless.

 

Next, I suppose there is that ridiculous thing about him using a translator at the senate hearing. Which, to me, makes perfect sense. Sammy's English was always terrible. He spoke it, but not very well. So, if you were going to a hearing in front of the United States Senate, don't you think you'd want to speak the language that you were most fluent in. Wouldn't you want to make sure that you and the people you were talking to understood and comprehended absolutely every word that was said beyond all doubt? That seems simple to me.

 

The most interesting thing, to me, is what Andy and others pointed out earlier. We're a couple years into steroid investigations, there have been a couple reports, and yet Sammy has avoided absolutely any mention of steroids. What makes it more interesting is that there are seemingly so many people who really want to know that Sammy did/didn't juice. I mean, the monster HR numbers he/McGwire/Bonds put up for a few years are right at the heart of the steroid investigation, and yet nothing. Now maybe Sammy was really really smart about how he injected, maybe he only used cash and only took them in private, etc. But at this point, a couple years into an investigation that one would only logically assume would have taken a hard look at him/his activities, there has been absolutely nothing damning to come out into the open.

 

Maybe, eventually, something will come out. I certainly understand why people are suspicious of Sammy, but what's interesting for him is just about every piece of evidence that people like to use against him to 'prove' his guilt is either completely useless or has a somewhat logical non-damning explanation behind it. And the more time that passes without any evidence coming out against him makes things all the more interesting.

[bcl412]

Another question to add. Aren't there other types of muscle enhancers that are legal or at least were legal during this time period that someone could have been using?

[wade]

Another question to add. Aren't there other types of muscle enhancers that are legal or at least were legal during this time period that someone could have been using?

 

Yes, but none work as well as testosterone, or synthetic testosterone, or pro-hormones (some of which were legal then, like andro).

 

You can buy creatine all day and use it in any league, but it's not gonna give you the results steroids will.

[bcl412]

Another question to add. Aren't there other types of muscle enhancers that are legal or at least were legal during this time period that someone could have been using?

 

Yes, but none work as well as testosterone, or synthetic testosterone, or pro-hormones (some of which were legal then, like andro).

 

You can buy creatine all day and use it in any league, but it's not gonna give you the results steroids will.

 

OK, that makes sense. Would it, however, make someone who is underweight and malnourished (like it has been claimed about Sosa) go from looking skinny to what he looks like in that picture above (assuming that's what he legitimately looks like) or would it not have that drastic of an effect?

[wade]

Another question to add. Aren't there other types of muscle enhancers that are legal or at least were legal during this time period that someone could have been using?

 

Yes, but none work as well as testosterone, or synthetic testosterone, or pro-hormones (some of which were legal then, like andro).

 

You can buy creatine all day and use it in any league, but it's not gonna give you the results steroids will.

 

OK, that makes sense. Would it, however, make someone who is underweight and malnourished (like it has been claimed about Sosa) go from looking skinny to what he looks like in that picture above (assuming that's what he legitimately looks like) or would it not have that drastic of an effect?

 

Creatine, or any other supplement, would have nowhere near the effect of nutrition- if that's what you're asking.

 

I'm someone who has spent over a decade trying to put on weight and I can tell you that food intake is the number one thing, followed by lifting heavy weights.

 

That said, taking steroids makes the whole process easier and faster and there's potential for so much more of a gain.

[ConstableRabbit]

Another question to add. Aren't there other types of muscle enhancers that are legal or at least were legal during this time period that someone could have been using?

 

Yes, but none work as well as testosterone, or synthetic testosterone, or pro-hormones (some of which were legal then, like andro).

 

You can buy creatine all day and use it in any league, but it's not gonna give you the results steroids will.

I believe Andro was legal for a long time, and that can do a lot.

[Brian]

there's definitely a double-standard between Baseball and other sports. I mean, look how huge someone like LeBron was at age 18. He gets credit as a "perfect athletic specimen" and no one blinks an eye that a teenager can be built like that. Did people ever mention steroids in the same breath as, say, Karl Malone? Shaq?

 

Or the fact that Shawn Merriman (I'm not sure I spelled either right there, the Charger LB) tested positive for steroids and nobody really cared after his suspension was over.

[SpongeWorthy]

Sammy actually had to use steroids because he was giving himself a handicap by using a corked bat.

 

It's all good.