Sources: A-Rod tested positive for steroids in '03

[FergieJ31]

>> The ONLY reason A-Rod was outed by someone at MLB was destroy his reputation.

 

My feelings about the A-Rod story are pretty much exactly the same as the Michael Phelps story: zero outrage at the athlete, utter comtempt for the anonymous dweebs who outed them.

[TruffleShuffle]

i know it's become just about as popular to mock people who are upset about the steroid use as it is for sportswriters to write articles about the loss of innocence, but shouldn't it be understandable that people have a problem with this? i swam competitively for much of my life; if i got touched out by someone it pissed me off but if i got touched out by someone who i found out was a steroid user, yeah that would piss me off even more. i'd feel cheated. and i was on a lousy college team. imagine how guys feel who might have been able to make a few mil and earn a major league pension feel. or guys that were good players but might have become great.

 

i know they had a choice about whether or not to use steroids, but i do sympathize with a guy who lost out on millions of dollars because he had the integrity to do the best that he could without artificially enhancing his performance.

[OleMissCub]

if i got touched out by someone it pissed me off but if i got touched out by someone who i found out was a steroid user, yeah that would piss me off even more. i'd feel cheated. and i was on a lousy college team. imagine how guys feel who might have been able to make a few mil and earn a major league pension feel. or guys that were good players but might have become great.

 

Listening to MLB on XM today, I probably heard three or four former players say the exact same thing. That is what bothers them most about the steroid thing.

[TruffleShuffle]

if i got touched out by someone it pissed me off but if i got touched out by someone who i found out was a steroid user, yeah that would piss me off even more. i'd feel cheated. and i was on a lousy college team. imagine how guys feel who might have been able to make a few mil and earn a major league pension feel. or guys that were good players but might have become great.

 

Listening to MLB on XM today, I probably heard three or four former players say the exact same thing. That is what bothers them most about the steroid thing.

 

yeah i don't really give a crap about the "bad example for kids" stuff. i think it's easier for people who competed in athletics (like later in life, not playing little league) to feel like there's a problem because of the loss of fairness.

[wade]

i know it's become just about as popular to mock people who are upset about the steroid use as it is for sportswriters to write articles about the loss of innocence, but shouldn't it be understandable that people have a problem with this? i swam competitively for much of my life; if i got touched out by someone it pissed me off but if i got touched out by someone who i found out was a steroid user, yeah that would piss me off even more. i'd feel cheated. and i was on a lousy college team. imagine how guys feel who might have been able to make a few mil and earn a major league pension feel. or guys that were good players but might have become great.

 

i know they had a choice about whether or not to use steroids, but i do sympathize with a guy who lost out on millions of dollars because he had the integrity to do the best that he could without artificially enhancing his performance.

 

That's very understandable, and as Ole Miss said, players are saying the same thing.

 

That said, most of the mocking (at least what I condone and engage in) is in regards to the journalists who are up in arms now that almost assuredly knew back in the day these guys were on stuff, but either didn't report it or didn't think it was a big deal then. I mentioned it in another thread, but Joe Sheehan touched on it at Prospectus in what I felt was a pretty good essay.

[imb]

Why would an owner want to sign a player with the promise he won't take PEDs? They want to purposely make bad signings to appease the McCarthys?

 

This fogeyism is ridiculous, all your heroes were cheaters too. I want to be the one to etch the asterisk on Aaron's plaque. I got dibs.

 

 

Good luck with that. Go for Maris while you're at it. Now those would be real "witch hunts." You can nit pick all you want but nothing in baseball history will compare to your tarnished heroes from the steroids era.

 

You sound like someone told you there is no Santa Claus.

 

maris was a good power hitter who suddenly had the best HR season in the history of baseball, but he went bald during that year and then got hurt a lot afterward and retired, never coming close to approaching that homer total.

 

fits the profile

 

Roger actually lost weight that year on his skinny frame with no increase in head size. He was protected in the lineup most of the year by a good Yankee lineup and saw a lot of fastballs down the middle and was the perfect hitter for Yankee Stadium's short porch.

 

How about comparing Aaron's career home run consistency with McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, etc? How about it Meph?

 

FYI, IMB your man Obama just said at his press conference that A-Roid and all the guilty players of the steroid era had "tarnished" baseball. I thought it was a great choice of words.

 

Now who could argue with someone as smart as Obama?

 

hank aaron hit 29 home runs in 160 games as a 34-year old, then hit 44 as a 35-year olda nd hit a career high 47 as a 37-year old. He had his best power years well past his prime. He hit 40 home runs as a 39-year old.

 

his profile fits that of a steroid user. The only reason he was able to break ruth's record was because he played longer than most players were able to, and we all already acknowledge that steroids prolonged bonds' career.

 

looks like aaron is dirty too

 

Not even close to the Bonds increase in home runs. Aaron never even hit 50. Time to move on and admit you are wrong.

 

50 home runs is the benchmark for a steroid user? because he didn't hit as many as bonds, that means he's innocent? He missed your magical 50-home run mark by 3 whole home runs when he was 37-years old. That's more than Bonds hit at that age and aaron did it in fewer plate appearances.

 

Everyone looks at Sosa and assumes with only circumstantial evidence that he was a user, but there's as much circumstantial evidence that aaron used, too.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

As mentioned earlier in the thread, a former teammate of Aaron is on record saying a lot of that team was using, as well as a lot of the rest of the league.

 

This wasn't baseball's first steroid era, and Aaron fit the profile to a T right in the middle of the last one.

[The Voice of Reason]

Why would an owner want to sign a player with the promise he won't take PEDs? They want to purposely make bad signings to appease the McCarthys?

 

This fogeyism is ridiculous, all your heroes were cheaters too. I want to be the one to etch the asterisk on Aaron's plaque. I got dibs.

 

 

Good luck with that. Go for Maris while you're at it. Now those would be real "witch hunts." You can nit pick all you want but nothing in baseball history will compare to your tarnished heroes from the steroids era.

 

You sound like someone told you there is no Santa Claus.

 

maris was a good power hitter who suddenly had the best HR season in the history of baseball, but he went bald during that year and then got hurt a lot afterward and retired, never coming close to approaching that homer total.

 

fits the profile

 

Roger actually lost weight that year on his skinny frame with no increase in head size. He was protected in the lineup most of the year by a good Yankee lineup and saw a lot of fastballs down the middle and was the perfect hitter for Yankee Stadium's short porch.

 

How about comparing Aaron's career home run consistency with McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, etc? How about it Meph?

 

FYI, IMB your man Obama just said at his press conference that A-Roid and all the guilty players of the steroid era had "tarnished" baseball. I thought it was a great choice of words.

 

Now who could argue with someone as smart as Obama?

 

hank aaron hit 29 home runs in 160 games as a 34-year old, then hit 44 as a 35-year olda nd hit a career high 47 as a 37-year old. He had his best power years well past his prime. He hit 40 home runs as a 39-year old.

 

his profile fits that of a steroid user. The only reason he was able to break ruth's record was because he played longer than most players were able to, and we all already acknowledge that steroids prolonged bonds' career.

 

looks like aaron is dirty too

 

Not even close to the Bonds increase in home runs. Aaron never even hit 50. Time to move on and admit you are wrong.

 

50 home runs is the benchmark for a steroid user? because he didn't hit as many as bonds, that means he's innocent? He missed your magical 50-home run mark by 3 whole home runs when he was 37-years old. That's more than Bonds hit at that age and aaron did it in fewer plate appearances.

 

Everyone looks at Sosa and assumes with only circumstantial evidence that he was a user, but there's as much circumstantial evidence that aaron used, too.

 

I don't think Aaron had the one-year weight gains and other physical changes that Bonds, McGwire and Sosa did. Look at the number of 50+ home runs season in the 60's and 70s compared to the steroid era - not even close even if you take out Brady (10 to 50) Anderson. Hasn't home run totals gone down a tad since drug testing began? Do you think all 104 of those positive tests were wrong? The steroid era was a joke.

 

How can you argue with Turk? He played during the steroid era. His 2006 statements looks pretty prophetic.

 

Wendell says Sosa obviously did steroids

 

NBCSports.com news services

 

updated 1:31 p.m. CT, Fri., March. 17, 2006

Retired pitcher Turk Wendell implied that he believes Sammy Sosa used steroids to become an instant home run slugger, the Daily Herald of suburban Chicago reported Friday.

 

"C'mon. Of course. There are so many guys who did and it's all going to come out,'' said Wendell. "Here's a guy [sosa] who goes from 30 homers to 60 homers every year, and just as fast he's out of baseball. Can't get a job. How's that work?

 

"Baseball people know this is going to get worse and nobody wants anything to do with the guys who were on the stuff. We would sit there in the clubhouse and laugh. How's a guy gain 30 pounds of solid muscle in three months [over the winter]? It's physically impossible without the juice.''

 

Two years ago, Wendell accused Barry Bonds of doing steroids.

 

"Obviously, he did it," Wendell said. "... It's clear just seeing his body."

 

"

Everybody in Chicago knew what was going on, just like everybody in baseball knows about Bonds,'' Wendell told the Herald. "The coaches knew. So did the managers and owners. How could they not know?

 

"Then, Jose Canseco comes out and says it and everybody rips him, and now everything he said was true. A lot more will come out about guys who nobody's talking about yet, too.''

 

"It was funny to see the guys who were on steroids and then got off them,'' Wendell added. "You're watching on TV and you see a guy hit a ball and you go, 'That's gone.' But the thing is, it used to be gone, and now it's a routine fly ball that the year before the guy hit 10 rows into the bleachers.

[imb]

are you even paying attention or are you just talking? I think it's obvious Sosa used steroids, but if you stacked his career up next to Aaron's without either of their names next to their stats, and said "who used steroids?" the answer would be "both."

 

And the total of 50-home run seasons during the 70s is irrelevant to whether or not Aaron used, which is missing the entire point of the conversation completely, but i suspect you know that and that's why everything you're talking about is so off topic.

[wade]

So, are some of the guys on here so pissed about the steroid era in baseball that you're ready to give up on the game?

[ConstableRabbit]

Why would an owner want to sign a player with the promise he won't take PEDs? They want to purposely make bad signings to appease the McCarthys?

 

This fogeyism is ridiculous, all your heroes were cheaters too. I want to be the one to etch the asterisk on Aaron's plaque. I got dibs.

 

 

Good luck with that. Go for Maris while you're at it. Now those would be real "witch hunts." You can nit pick all you want but nothing in baseball history will compare to your tarnished heroes from the steroids era.

 

You sound like someone told you there is no Santa Claus.

 

maris was a good power hitter who suddenly had the best HR season in the history of baseball, but he went bald during that year and then got hurt a lot afterward and retired, never coming close to approaching that homer total.

 

fits the profile

 

Roger actually lost weight that year on his skinny frame with no increase in head size. He was protected in the lineup most of the year by a good Yankee lineup and saw a lot of fastballs down the middle and was the perfect hitter for Yankee Stadium's short porch.

 

How about comparing Aaron's career home run consistency with McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, etc? How about it Meph?

 

FYI, IMB your man Obama just said at his press conference that A-Roid and all the guilty players of the steroid era had "tarnished" baseball. I thought it was a great choice of words.

 

Now who could argue with someone as smart as Obama?

 

hank aaron hit 29 home runs in 160 games as a 34-year old, then hit 44 as a 35-year olda nd hit a career high 47 as a 37-year old. He had his best power years well past his prime. He hit 40 home runs as a 39-year old.

 

his profile fits that of a steroid user. The only reason he was able to break ruth's record was because he played longer than most players were able to, and we all already acknowledge that steroids prolonged bonds' career.

 

looks like aaron is dirty too

 

Not even close to the Bonds increase in home runs. Aaron never even hit 50. Time to move on and admit you are wrong.

 

50 home runs is the benchmark for a steroid user? because he didn't hit as many as bonds, that means he's innocent? He missed your magical 50-home run mark by 3 whole home runs when he was 37-years old. That's more than Bonds hit at that age and aaron did it in fewer plate appearances.

 

Everyone looks at Sosa and assumes with only circumstantial evidence that he was a user, but there's as much circumstantial evidence that aaron used, too.

 

I don't think Aaron had the one-year weight gains and other physical changes that Bonds, McGwire and Sosa did. Look at the number of 50+ home runs season in the 60's and 70s compared to the steroid era - not even close even if you take out Brady (10 to 50) Anderson. Hasn't home run totals gone down a tad since drug testing began? Do you think all 104 of those positive tests were wrong? The steroid era was a joke.

 

How can you argue with Turk? He played during the steroid era. His 2006 statements looks pretty prophetic.

 

Wendell says Sosa obviously did steroids

 

NBCSports.com news services

 

updated 1:31 p.m. CT, Fri., March. 17, 2006

Retired pitcher Turk Wendell implied that he believes Sammy Sosa used steroids to become an instant home run slugger, the Daily Herald of suburban Chicago reported Friday.

 

"C'mon. Of course. There are so many guys who did and it's all going to come out,'' said Wendell. "Here's a guy [sosa] who goes from 30 homers to 60 homers every year, and just as fast he's out of baseball. Can't get a job. How's that work?

 

"Baseball people know this is going to get worse and nobody wants anything to do with the guys who were on the stuff. We would sit there in the clubhouse and laugh. How's a guy gain 30 pounds of solid muscle in three months [over the winter]? It's physically impossible without the juice.''

 

Two years ago, Wendell accused Barry Bonds of doing steroids.

 

"Obviously, he did it," Wendell said. "... It's clear just seeing his body."

 

"

Everybody in Chicago knew what was going on, just like everybody in baseball knows about Bonds,'' Wendell told the Herald. "The coaches knew. So did the managers and owners. How could they not know?

 

"Then, Jose Canseco comes out and says it and everybody rips him, and now everything he said was true. A lot more will come out about guys who nobody's talking about yet, too.''

 

"It was funny to see the guys who were on steroids and then got off them,'' Wendell added. "You're watching on TV and you see a guy hit a ball and you go, 'That's gone.' But the thing is, it used to be gone, and now it's a routine fly ball that the year before the guy hit 10 rows into the bleachers.

 

For the last time... steroid-users don't necessarily have to have large muscles or experience huge gains in muscle mass. You can reap steroid-induced advantages in other ways besides muscles -- e.g. reduced recovery time -- which can attribute to better numbers. HGH is a different story -- it WILL make you bigger.

[treebird]

when looking at guys like aaron, you have to take into account that steroids weren't as good or as properly used then. it's very reasonable that the same degree of cheating would get a player much less in the way of results in that time period.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I've come to the point that I don't really care who used. If a player I don't like is revealed, like Clemens, I'll probably make a big deal of it just to aggravate my friends who are fans of Clemens, but frankly, I don't care all that much. My guess is more players were doing it than not.

[Monco]

I've come to the point that I don't really care who used. If a player I don't like is revealed, like Clemens, I'll probably make a big deal of it just to aggravate my friends who are fans of Clemens, but frankly, I don't care all that much. My guess is more players were doing it than not.

 

Right,who cares. Players have been cheating from the beginning of the game .They've always been looking for an edge. Pine tar,spitballs ,sandpaper etc. Alot of players in the hall have cheated in some way. Whether to use steroids or not is a personal decision. Over time, some steroid users will have to pay a price. Lyle Alzado,Steve Courson etc. They paid it.

[bcl412]

So, are some of the guys on here so pissed about the steroid era in baseball that you're ready to give up on the game?

 

I wouldn't. Why should I give up something I love because some guys cheated at it?

[Derwood]

Over time, some steroid users will have to pay a price. Lyle Alzado,Steve Courson etc. They paid it.

 

Ken Caminiti

[erik316wttn]

If most of society engages in theft or robbery, is it still a crime?

 

The answer is yes.

 

because committing a felony and cheating at a game are the same thing

 

And if cheating makes you millions more, that's a form of theft, isn't it?

 

no

 

Care to elaborate? You'd disagree with me if I said the sky was blue.

[Wilson A2000]

So, are some of the guys on here so pissed about the steroid era in baseball that you're ready to give up on the game?

 

I won't give up on the game. Designer steroids will continue to be a problem, but I still enjoy the game.

[imb]

If most of society engages in theft or robbery, is it still a crime?

 

The answer is yes.

 

because committing a felony and cheating at a game are the same thing

 

And if cheating makes you millions more, that's a form of theft, isn't it?

 

no

 

Care to elaborate? You'd disagree with me if I said the sky was blue.

 

i wouldn't disagree with you if you weren't wrong. the owners knew what was going on and offered up contracts to the guys juicing. this stuff wasn't a surprise to them.

[bcl412]

If most of society engages in theft or robbery, is it still a crime?

 

The answer is yes.

 

because committing a felony and cheating at a game are the same thing

 

And if cheating makes you millions more, that's a form of theft, isn't it?

 

no

 

Care to elaborate? You'd disagree with me if I said the sky was blue.

 

i wouldn't disagree with you if you weren't wrong. the owners knew what was going on and offered up contracts to the guys juicing. this stuff wasn't a surprise to them.

 

Unless I'm missing something or there is some elaborate conspiracy in baseball that I am unaware of, how are the owners supposed to know who's juicing and who isn't? In addition to that the potential theft that may be created isn't necessarily from the owners. In fact the owners have most likely obtained money from steroids. What could be considered theft is from the Minor leaguers who were clean and didn't get to the Majors because of people ahead of them who used and from clean Major Leaguers who didn't get a bigger contract because of steroid users who had better numbers.

[SouthSideRyan]

You guys are forgetting that Aaron was probably on amphetamines too. But that's okay because he didn't hit 73 HRs. Therefore Alex Sanchez and Manny Alexander are also ok.

[imb]

If most of society engages in theft or robbery, is it still a crime?

 

The answer is yes.

 

because committing a felony and cheating at a game are the same thing

 

And if cheating makes you millions more, that's a form of theft, isn't it?

 

no

 

Care to elaborate? You'd disagree with me if I said the sky was blue.

 

i wouldn't disagree with you if you weren't wrong. the owners knew what was going on and offered up contracts to the guys juicing. this stuff wasn't a surprise to them.

 

Unless I'm missing something or there is some elaborate conspiracy in baseball that I am unaware of, how are the owners supposed to know who's juicing and who isn't? In addition to that the potential theft that may be created isn't necessarily from the owners. In fact the owners have most likely obtained money from steroids. What could be considered theft is from the Minor leaguers who were clean and didn't get to the Majors because of people ahead of them who used and from clean Major Leaguers who didn't get a bigger contract because of steroid users who had better numbers.

 

What i meant is that the owners all knew that players were using steroids, but no one ever stepped up and did or said anything. Instead they kept giving out big contracts which indirectly just encouraged it.

 

as far as it being theft because it hurt clean minor leaguers, there's no need to even bother calling it theft. I mean, it may or may not be, but why waste time trying to come up with a term that flimsily fits the crime? Using steroids is illegal, it's wrong, it's cheating, it's bad.

Edited February 11, 2009 by Bunts Lick Butts

[bcl412]

If most of society engages in theft or robbery, is it still a crime?

 

The answer is yes.

 

because committing a felony and cheating at a game are the same thing

 

And if cheating makes you millions more, that's a form of theft, isn't it?

 

no

 

Care to elaborate? You'd disagree with me if I said the sky was blue.

 

i wouldn't disagree with you if you weren't wrong. the owners knew what was going on and offered up contracts to the guys juicing. this stuff wasn't a surprise to them.

 

Unless I'm missing something or there is some elaborate conspiracy in baseball that I am unaware of, how are the owners supposed to know who's juicing and who isn't? In addition to that the potential theft that may be created isn't necessarily from the owners. In fact the owners have most likely obtained money from steroids. What could be considered theft is from the Minor leaguers who were clean and didn't get to the Majors because of people ahead of them who used and from clean Major Leaguers who didn't get a bigger contract because of steroid users who had better numbers.

 

What i meant is that the owners all knew that players were using steroids, but no one ever stepped up and did or said anything. Instead they kept giving out big contracts which indirectly just encouraged it.

 

as far as it being theft because it hurt clean minor leaguers, there's no need to even bother calling it theft. I mean, it may or may not be, but why waste time trying to come up with a term that flimsily fits the crime? Using steroids is illegal, it's wrong, it's cheating, it's bad.

 

Fair enough

[17 Seconds]

If most of society engages in theft or robbery, is it still a crime?

 

The answer is yes.

 

because committing a felony and cheating at a game are the same thing

 

And if cheating makes you millions more, that's a form of theft, isn't it?

 

no

 

Care to elaborate? You'd disagree with me if I said the sky was blue.

 

It's not stealing if the teams are getting exactly what they paid for

[XZero771679666304]

I'm really over the whole steroids thing.

 

What really bothers me is how the other sports get a free pass (you know a large percentage of those monstrosities in the NFL are juicing - or there has been a severe pituitary disorder outbreak), yet MLB is vilified. Athletes have always looked for an edge, in every sport. I would bet one of my kidneys that if you went back and offered some of the old timers what is available today, they'd jump all over it.

 

Hell, I'd like to have seen how much more the Mick could have done with some HGH for his knees, and I bet he would have as well.

 

Tar, sandpaper, spitballs, cork, amphetamines, stickum, steroids, and on and on. And it the future it will be something else. Purists and the naive hate to hear that, but it's the cold, hard truth.