Carlos Zambrano is underrated

[Derwood]

You're right and we should all bow down to IMB!.

 

you're losing bad.

[Mephistopheles]

You're right and we should all bow down to IMB!.

 

you're losing bad.

 

You're right and we should all bow down to IMB!.

[rocket]

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

 

oh wait you can't

[Mephistopheles]

Don't care.

[imb]

i want the olives

[Yeti]

you're both dicks

[Yeti]

didnt notice page 3...

 

 

all 3 of you are dicks

[Yeti]

and yes duuuuurwood , you;re included, hope you feel validated

[Tyrant]

Mods, please leave this thread open.

[Blue W]

it won't overcome an offday pitching, but sometimes it will overcome an average day pitching and make it a good day production wise. to think it is irrelevant is to be stupid.

 

More deep thoughts from this absolute joke of a human being. I love that you feel the need to gloss yourself in your sig. That tells me everything I need to know about you. But you're no Mozart, or Salieri. You're a petulant five-year old banging out Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. Grow up, you nobody.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

it won't overcome an offday pitching, but sometimes it will overcome an average day pitching and make it a good day production wise. to think it is irrelevant is to be stupid.

 

More deep thoughts from this absolute joke of a human being. I love that you feel the need to gloss yourself in your sig. That tells me everything I need to know about you. But you're no Mozart, or Salieri. You're a petulant five-year old banging out Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. Grow up, you nobody.

 

But he's right, and you've added nothing to the discussion. Point for him.

 

Adding runs with the bat makes you more likely to win, whether you are having a good day pitching or not. You can lose 2-1 just as easily as 8-7.

[UMFan83]

You're right and we should all bow down to IMB!.

 

you're losing bad.

 

You're right and we should all bow down to IMB!.

 

His name is IBM, get it right

[Hairyducked Idiot]

You're right and we should all bow down to IMB!.

 

you're losing bad.

 

You're right and we should all bow down to IMB!.

 

His name is IBM, get it right

 

MuFan?

[Blue W]

it won't overcome an offday pitching, but sometimes it will overcome an average day pitching and make it a good day production wise. to think it is irrelevant is to be stupid.

 

More deep thoughts from this absolute joke of a human being. I love that you feel the need to gloss yourself in your sig. That tells me everything I need to know about you. But you're no Mozart, or Salieri. You're a petulant five-year old banging out Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. Grow up, you nobody.

 

But he's right, and you've added nothing to the discussion. Point for him.

 

Adding runs with the bat makes you more likely to win, whether you are having a good day pitching or not. You can lose 2-1 just as easily as 8-7.

 

 

Which is why I asked for someone to explain the way they come to those numbers in my post. I wasn't saying I was right,. I was saying it didn't seem right to me and wanted a little more information. I was called stupid for my temerity.

 

It's true I didn't add to the discussion. As Meph likes to repeat over and over ad nauseum: I didn't tell people things they didn't already know. Nothing new here. There isn't anyone who is not aware of what type of person Meph is.

 

Thanks for your completely unnecessary two cents, though. I forgot how you guys like to travel in packs.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Yeah, me and Meph are total buds.

 

I'm honestly having trouble understanding your original question. Why would contributing runs on offense only be valuable if the pitcher is having a bad game?

[Blue W]

Yeah, me and Meph are total buds.

 

I'm honestly having trouble understanding your original question. Why would contributing runs on offense only be valuable if the pitcher is having a bad game?

 

I just don't think his bat plays that big a role when he wins games. That's all. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and have no problem with it. The problem I have is with the holier than thous on this board who sneer at people that are just coming around to Sabremetrics etc. and don't fully understand methodologies or the relevance of some of the numbers. When people state an opinion then genuinley ask for guidence, they're met with people like Meph who seem to think quantity is a substitute for quality when it comes to posting. It's too bad because otherwise this is a very enjoyable site with a lot of info you can't get at other Cub blogs etc. It's also sad that a grown man (big assumption there) acts the way he acts on an everyday basis. Embarassing really.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Yeah, me and Meph are total buds.

 

I'm honestly having trouble understanding your original question. Why would contributing runs on offense only be valuable if the pitcher is having a bad game?

 

I just don't think his bat plays that big a role when he wins games. That's all. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and have no problem with it. The problem I have is with the holier than thous on this board who sneer at people that are just coming around to Sabremetrics etc. and don't fully understand methodologies or the relevance of some of the numbers. When people state an opinion then genuinley ask for guidence, they're met with people like Meph who seem to think quantity is a substitute for quality when it comes to posting. It's too bad because otherwise this is a very enjoyable site with a lot of info you can't get at other Cub blogs etc. It's also sad that a grown man (big assumption there) acts the way he acts on an everyday basis. Embarassing really.

 

While I won't disagree that people are jerks around here sometimes, you can't counter a detailed analysis with "I just think" and expect to be treated as if your ideas are on equal ground.

[Blue W]

I wasn't asking for equal ground, I was asking for a better explaination. If anything I was self depricating saying "I'm probably revealling my lack of math skills." The rebutal: you're stupid. Is that representative of the detailed analysis that is so revered on this site?

[Keener98]

Just use your ignore button for Meph, you will like this site alot better, and wont miss out on anything.

[The Other 15]

So Z is worth 1.6 wins with his bat, but can anybody tell me a game last year that the Cubs would have lost if not for Z's bat (but instead one of an average hitting pitcher)?

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SDN/SDN200806020.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/FLO/FLO200808150.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHN/CHN200808210.shtml

 

Three games in which Zambrano's offense contributed to a run, and the Cubs won by one.

Wait, in the first game you posted he puts the Cubs behind by three because of his lack of self control, and in the second game he puts the Cubs in a 5-1 hole because of his pitching. I'd still rather have Z the good pitcher over Z the hitter.

[Mephistopheles]

it won't overcome an offday pitching, but sometimes it will overcome an average day pitching and make it a good day production wise. to think it is irrelevant is to be stupid.

 

More deep thoughts from this absolute joke of a human being. I love that you feel the need to gloss yourself in your sig. That tells me everything I need to know about you. But you're no Mozart, or Salieri. You're a petulant five-year old banging out Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. Grow up, you nobody.

 

You're an insult to all Texans. Get the **** out of my state! Seriously, what's with the personal attacks? I made a pretty tame post towards you (for me) and you go off on me because of what? Did I date your sister and jilt her after awhile or something?

 

Which is why I asked for someone to explain the way they come to those numbers in my post. I wasn't saying I was right,. I was saying it didn't seem right to me and wanted a little more information. I was called stupid for my temerity.

 

Read my response again: it won't overcome an offday pitching, but sometimes it will overcome an average day pitching and make it a good day production wise. to think it is irrelevant is to be stupid. I answered the reason that you were wrong explicitly. I didn't say you were stupid, I said if someone thinks we should throw hitting for pitchers out, they're stupid. You just said you didn't think you were right.

 

here isn't anyone who is not aware of what type of person Meph is.

 

And what type of person is that? The typical dumbass on the internets who doesn't know anything but likes to just piss people off? I can see how someone who just got here can reach that conclusion, but I do know a lot. Even people here who hate everything I stand for and hate me to death would admit that, even if they say otherwise. At the end of the day, I know what I'm talking about. Especially, when it comes to anything statistical.

 

The problem I have is with the holier than thous on this board who sneer at people that are just coming around to Sabremetrics etc. and don't fully understand methodologies or the relevance of some of the numbers. When people state an opinion then genuinley ask for guidence, they're met with people like Meph who seem to think quantity is a substitute for quality when it comes to posting.

 

I simply don't have the time to make lengthy posts like I used to. Some of my older stuff when I had the time can be found on blogs and way back here I guess. Just because I know a ton about sabermetrics it doesn't mean I slam them down peoples faces non-stop in every argument. In fact I would say that half the arguments (or "nice" discussions) I get into are me taking the side against the person posting the saber-stats saying why whatever they're doing is wrong and doesn't fit the situation. I, unlike 95% of the people who use sabermetrics, know where the holes are and their limitations. Most people don't. I can also say for 100% certainty that only a handful of people in the world know more about BPs stats than I do, and they're pretty much all working for BP and some of the people at BP still don't know as much as I do. I certainly know more than most here about them. That's a given.

 

But sure, if you want guidance, fine. I've always been pretty open to sharing my knowledge if asked.

[imb]

if you want 15 breathless paragraphs about florida football - meph is your man

 

if you're looking for tips about how to beat the goblin boss on a final fantasy game - meph is your man

 

if you want to talk about anything baseball related - try someone else

[SouthSideRyan]

So Z is worth 1.6 wins with his bat, but can anybody tell me a game last year that the Cubs would have lost if not for Z's bat (but instead one of an average hitting pitcher)?

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SDN/SDN200806020.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/FLO/FLO200808150.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHN/CHN200808210.shtml

 

Three games in which Zambrano's offense contributed to a run, and the Cubs won by one.

Wait, in the first game you posted he puts the Cubs behind by three because of his lack of self control, and in the second game he puts the Cubs in a 5-1 hole because of his pitching. I'd still rather have Z the good pitcher over Z the hitter.

 

Is it your belief that Z's good hitting is detracting from his pitching? So now Zambrano's hitting doesn't count if he pitches poorly, cause he's supposed to be a good pitcher, and his hitting obviously doesn't count if he pitches well cause who cares, they were gonna win anyway?

[The Other 15]

So Z is worth 1.6 wins with his bat, but can anybody tell me a game last year that the Cubs would have lost if not for Z's bat (but instead one of an average hitting pitcher)?

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SDN/SDN200806020.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/FLO/FLO200808150.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHN/CHN200808210.shtml

 

Three games in which Zambrano's offense contributed to a run, and the Cubs won by one.

Wait, in the first game you posted he puts the Cubs behind by three because of his lack of self control, and in the second game he puts the Cubs in a 5-1 hole because of his pitching. I'd still rather have Z the good pitcher over Z the hitter.

 

Is it your belief that Z's good hitting is detracting from his pitching? So now Zambrano's hitting doesn't count if he pitches poorly, cause he's supposed to be a good pitcher, and his hitting obviously doesn't count if he pitches well cause who cares, they were gonna win anyway?

No. It's my belief that Z had an extraordinary year with the bat and it would be more comforting to know he could control games more with his arm than having to depend on his bat. Is that so odd?

[cubbinalltheway]

if you want 15 breathless paragraphs about florida football - meph is your man

 

if you're looking for tips about how to beat the goblin boss on a final fantasy game - meph is your man

 

if you want to talk about anything baseball related - try someone else

lol