I hope you're sitting down, I have a McGwire update.

[wolf stansson]

Link

McGwire's brother, a former pro body builder, comes out confessing to introducing his brother to steroids.

 

 

Excuse me for a second, I have to pick my jaw off the floor.

[rocket]

Sammy Sosa's still innocent baby

[Hairyducked Idiot]

He still belongs in the Hall.

[The Voice of Reason]

I'm not here to talk about the past.

[Post Count Padder]

Did you know water is wet?

[wolf stansson]

Sammy Sosa's still innocent baby

Sammy doesn't have no turn coat, born-again brothers.

[Derwood]

Sammy Sosa's still innocent baby

Sammy doesn't have no turn coat, born-again brothers.

 

why would they turn against Sammy when he used his charity front to set them up with sweet houses back in the DR?

[erik316wttn]

Sammy Sosa's still innocent baby

 

Innocent until proven guilty.

[The Voice of Reason]

Sammy Sosa's still innocent baby

 

Innocent until proven guilty.

 

Just ask Rogers Clemens and Rod Blagojevich.

[DubCub]

Did you know water is wet?

I also heard that the Beatles have parted ways!

[ConstableRabbit]

Sammy Sosa's still innocent baby

 

Innocent until proven guilty.

 

Just ask Rogers Clemens and Rod Blagojevich.

Except no one has ever made a legitimate case against Sosa except "He had muscles and hit a lot of homers and spoke Spanish in front of Congressmen!"

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Sammy Sosa's still innocent baby

 

Innocent until proven guilty.

 

Just ask Rogers Clemens and Rod Blagojevich.

Except no one has ever made a legitimate case against Sosa except "He had muscles and hit a lot of homers and spoke Spanish in front of Congressmen!"

 

And he's a caught cheater in an era where it was the most common form of cheating.

[jersey cubs fan]

Sammy Sosa's still innocent baby

 

Innocent until proven guilty.

 

Just ask Rogers Clemens and Rod Blagojevich.

Except no one has ever made a legitimate case against Sosa except "He had muscles and hit a lot of homers and spoke Spanish in front of Congressmen!"

 

And he's a caught cheater in an era where it was the most common form of cheating.

 

And Joe Morgan cheated in the same way that Sammy did.

[wolf stansson]

Sammy Sosa's still innocent baby

 

Innocent until proven guilty.

 

Just ask Rogers Clemens and Rod Blagojevich.

Except no one has ever made a legitimate case against Sosa except "He had muscles and hit a lot of homers and spoke Spanish in front of Congressmen!"

 

And he's a caught cheater in an era where it was the most common form of cheating.

 

And Joe Morgan cheated in the same way that Sammy did.

You guys aren't this naive are you?

[wolf stansson]

Sammy Sosa's still innocent baby

 

Innocent until proven guilty.

 

Just ask Rogers Clemens and Rod Blagojevich.

Except no one has ever made a legitimate case against Sosa except "He had muscles and hit a lot of homers and spoke Spanish in front of Congressmen!"

 

And he's a caught cheater in an era where it was the most common form of cheating.

 

And Joe Morgan cheated in the same way that Sammy did.

You guys aren't this naive are you?

Wait, don't answer that. I don't actually want to discuss this anymore. There is zero discourse left to be had on the Sosa/McGwire steroid speculation.

[rocket]

Sammy Sosa's still innocent baby

 

Innocent until proven guilty.

 

Just ask Rogers Clemens and Rod Blagojevich.

Except no one has ever made a legitimate case against Sosa except "He had muscles and hit a lot of homers and spoke Spanish in front of Congressmen!"

 

And he's a caught cheater in an era where it was the most common form of cheating.

 

And Joe Morgan cheated in the same way that Sammy did.

You guys aren't this naive are you?

 

if anything, sammy took anti-steroids to make him a worse player but he was still amazing

[jersey cubs fan]

Sammy Sosa's still innocent baby

 

Innocent until proven guilty.

 

Just ask Rogers Clemens and Rod Blagojevich.

Except no one has ever made a legitimate case against Sosa except "He had muscles and hit a lot of homers and spoke Spanish in front of Congressmen!"

 

And he's a caught cheater in an era where it was the most common form of cheating.

 

And Joe Morgan cheated in the same way that Sammy did.

You guys aren't this naive are you?

 

I'm fairly certain he took them, but there's less evidence than there is for any other high profile likely user.

[NCCubFan]

Sammy Sosa's still innocent baby

 

Innocent until proven guilty.

 

Just ask Rogers Clemens and Rod Blagojevich.

Except no one has ever made a legitimate case against Sosa except "He had muscles and hit a lot of homers and spoke Spanish in front of Congressmen!"

 

And he's a caught cheater in an era where it was the most common form of cheating.

 

And Joe Morgan cheated in the same way that Sammy did.

You guys aren't this naive are you?

Wait, don't answer that. I don't actually want to discuss this anymore. There is zero discourse left to be had on the Sosa/McGwire steroid speculation.

I interpreted the comments as relating to the corking incident, not steroids, since that's the only way he was caught cheating.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Well, yes, but I was using it as part of the circumstantial evidence that Sosa used PEDs

 

There was never any direct evidence that Sosa used PEDs. But he was a guy willing to used cork bats, played during an era where many (if not most) of the players of his caliber were using, and had a career that fit the profile of a user. It's certainly not enough for a court of law, but it's enough to keep him above suspicion in the court of public opinion.

[CubinNY]

Well, yes, but I was using it as part of the circumstantial evidence that Sosa used PEDs

 

There was never any direct evidence that Sosa used PEDs. But he was a guy willing to used cork bats, played during an era where many (if not most) of the players of his caliber were using, and had a career that fit the profile of a user. It's certainly not enough for a court of law, but it's enough to keep him above suspicion in the court of public opinion.

No one who played for any length of time between 1988 and 2005 is above suspicion, so that's not saying much.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Well, yes, but I was using it as part of the circumstantial evidence that Sosa used PEDs

 

There was never any direct evidence that Sosa used PEDs. But he was a guy willing to used cork bats, played during an era where many (if not most) of the players of his caliber were using, and had a career that fit the profile of a user. It's certainly not enough for a court of law, but it's enough to keep him above suspicion in the court of public opinion.

No one who played for any length of time between 1988 and 2005 is above suspicion, so that's not saying much.

 

I was kind of hoping to make a broad enough statement that no one would find room to quibble :)

 

Not everyone who played from '88-'05 was a known cheater who fit the statistical profile of a PED-user, so Sosa gets to be on a special level of "not above suspicion."

[The Voice of Reason]

Sammy Sosa's still innocent baby

 

Innocent until proven guilty.

 

Just ask Rogers Clemens and Rod Blagojevich.

Except no one has ever made a legitimate case against Sosa except "He had muscles and hit a lot of homers and spoke Spanish in front of Congressmen!"

 

I don't think it's the fact that Sammy had muscles but that he put on a tremendous amount of muscle, during an era when many players were using steroids, that makes people suspicous.

 

Bonds and McGwire defenders used the muscles doesn't equal steroids defense too. They aren't as vocal about it anymore.

[ConstableRabbit]

Sammy Sosa's still innocent baby

 

Innocent until proven guilty.

 

Just ask Rogers Clemens and Rod Blagojevich.

Except no one has ever made a legitimate case against Sosa except "He had muscles and hit a lot of homers and spoke Spanish in front of Congressmen!"

 

I don't think it's the fact that Sammy had muscles but that he put on a tremendous amount of muscle, during an era when many players were using steroids, that makes people suspicous.

 

Bonds and McGwire defenders used the muscles doesn't equal steroids defense too. They aren't as vocal about it anymore.

Still, compared to the group of definite roiders, Sammy doesn't have anything on him. He wasn't ratted out like Clemens. He didn't plead the 5th and have his brother say he did them like McGwire. He didn't fail a test like Palmeiro. He wasn't part of a federal investigation exposing him like Bonds or Giambi.

 

You can't automatically place him in that group and I think it's unfair to do so. If you want to use the corked bat against him, be my guest. It doesn't really help a player that much (if at all), but he did intend to cheat by using it. Should a corked bat keep him out of the hall of fame? I say no. You can disagree.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

You can't automatically place him in that group and I think it's unfair to do so. If you want to use the corked bat against him, be my guest. It doesn't really help a player that much (if at all), but he did intend to cheat by using it. Should a corked bat keep him out of the hall of fame? I say no. You can disagree.

 

I'm putting McGwire, Clemens and Bonds in the Hall too if I had a chance.

 

But if McGwire has trouble cracking 25%, there's no way Sosa gets in.

[Jehrico]

Sammy Sosa's still innocent baby

 

Innocent until proven guilty.

 

Just ask Rogers Clemens and Rod Blagojevich.

Except no one has ever made a legitimate case against Sosa except "He had muscles and hit a lot of homers and spoke Spanish in front of Congressmen!"

 

And he's a caught cheater in an era where it was the most common form of cheating.

 

And Joe Morgan cheated in the same way that Sammy did.

Am I the only one who thinks Sammy is dim enough that his story about that bat really was plausible? Let's face it...love him or hate him, he wasn't the sharpest tack in the box.