HOF BBWAA Ballot (Henderson & Jim Rice)

[OleMissCub]

Yeah, but was Howard feared?

 

 

Yes, he most certainly was.

 

 

unpossible! Jime Rice was the only feared baseball player of all time!!!!! FEAR FEAR FEAR.

 

I think the writers just wanted to add some spice to the pre HoF ceremony movie night. .. .

 

I wonder who came up with that "feared hitter" bullcrap. I bet it was that Carrot Top headed "curse of the bambino" fool in Boston.

[NCCubFan]

Headline candidates for the HOF over the next 3 years:

 

2010: Roberto Alomar, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, Fred McGriff, Andres Galarraga, Robin Ventura, Fred McGriff

Crime Dog doesn't stand a chance if he has to compete against himself for votes. :D

[imb]

stuart scott said tonight that jim rice might have been the scariest hitter of all time

 

come on people

[Tarver]

stuart scott said tonight that jim rice might have been the scariest hitter of all time

 

come on people

 

You could've stopped right there.

[Derwood]

stuart scott said tonight that jim rice might have been the scariest hitter of all time

 

come on people

 

Barry Bonds 2001 couldn't hold his jock

 

EDIT:

 

I stand corrected:

 

CAREER LEADERS (FEAR3)

 

1. Rice, Jim - 127.9

2. Ruth, Babe - 124.1

3. Bonds, Barry - 120.1

4. Cobb, Ty - 114.5

5. Williams, Ted - 113.0

6. Aaron, Henry - 112.3

7. Pujols, Albert - 111.1

8. Thomas, Frank - 108.8

9. Mays, Willie - 100.6

10. Eckstein, David - 99.7

Edited January 13, 2009 by Derwood

[fromthestretch]

Rice? yuk. I fully expect to see Grace, Damon, and B. Williams in there in about ten years.

 

As far as Grace, he's going to need the assistance of the Veterans Committee at this point, since he received less than 5% of the votes.

[bukie]

Rice? yuk. I fully expect to see Grace, Damon, and B. Williams in there in about ten years.

 

As far as Grace, he's going to need the assistance of the Veterans Committee at this point, since he received less than 5% of the votes.

And as we all know, the Veterans Committee isn't worth Veterans Committee.

[Tarver]

For everyone out there seeking employment, think about all the guys in every type of job like this person, wasting space and refusing to let go:

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Old-man-admits-to-mistake-in-not-voting-for-fell;_ylt=AhxtOlxJVptVCKnIwTW_N2MRvLYF?urn=mlb,133355

 

"If I had properly researched the situation, I would have voted for Rickey Henderson if for no other reason than he played for nine ball teams," he said. "Imagine that. He'll be the first Hall of Famer to have a bronze bust with nine caps stacked on his head.

[Tarver]

Rice? yuk. I fully expect to see Grace, Damon, and B. Williams in there in about ten years.

 

As far as Grace, he's going to need the assistance of the Veterans Committee at this point, since he received less than 5% of the votes.

And as we all know, the Veterans Committee isn't worth Veterans Committee.

Do you honestly think any of those three belong in the HOF?

[bukie]

Rice? yuk. I fully expect to see Grace, Damon, and B. Williams in there in about ten years.

 

As far as Grace, he's going to need the assistance of the Veterans Committee at this point, since he received less than 5% of the votes.

And as we all know, the Veterans Committee isn't worth Veterans Committee.

Do you honestly think any of those three belong in the HOF?

No, but Williams is the closest.

[AlwaysaCub]

Rice? yuk. I fully expect to see Grace, Damon, and B. Williams in there in about ten years.

 

As far as Grace, he's going to need the assistance of the Veterans Committee at this point, since he received less than 5% of the votes.

And as we all know, the Veterans Committee isn't worth Veterans Committee.

Do you honestly think any of those three belong in the HOF?

No, but Williams is the closest.

 

You could definitely picture campaigns for any or all three of those aforementioned guys gaining steam in later years. But Grace has the essentially the same career OPS+ as Gil Hodges, who hasn't made it yet and was on the Bums in the glory days. Bernie Williams has several WS rings to sell and his integral role on the 98 Yankees team, so I agree that he's the best bet. Johnny Damon may have 2270 hits but he has a 103 OPS+ which isn't going to cut it with his noodle arm.

[reggiemiller rules]

If Bernie Williams gets in Jim Edmonds better get in.

[Bruce Miles]

It's going to be a long, long, long time before the vast majority of writers are going to look at OPS+ when voting for the Hall of Fame. (It's interesting to note, however, that Will Carroll and Kristina Kahrl from Baseball Prospectus now are BBWAA members, although they won't be Hall of Fame voters until they're in for 10 years. But that is a sign of positive change.)

 

In fact, the player capsules that accompany the ballot include these stats for batters: Years, AVG, G, R, H, 2B, 3B, HR, RBI, BB, SO, SB, OBP and SLG.

 

I read with interest the comparisons between Frank Howard and Jim Rice. When Howard retired, stats such as OBP and SLG weren't widely discussed.

 

Nowadays, you have much more discussion on candidates and their stats. Also, the electorate is constantly changing. I didn't vote until 2002.

 

Even as stats such as OBP are being better understood, there are voters who look at Andre Dawson's OBP and disqualifying him.

 

What you have is a highly imperfect system that combines the subjective with objective. The Hall of Fame itself sets out no minimum statistical requirements other than a player must have played 10 years.

 

All I ask is that a voter study the ballot, study the stats, consider the integrity and sportsmanship of the player and make a well-reasoned choice to the best of his or her ability. And even after that, you ain't gonna please everybody.

[SouthSideRyan]

So uhhhh, Bruce who you vote for.

[OleMissCub]

So uhhhh, Bruce who you vote for.

 

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1231

 

Rickey Henderson

Jim Rice

Andre Dawson

Bert Blyleven

Tommy John

Jack Morris

Tim Raines

Lee Smith

 

 

Bruce, I'm glad to see that you were among the 22% that voted for Raines.

[Bruce Miles]

So uhhhh, Bruce who you vote for.

 

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1231

 

Rickey Henderson

Jim Rice

Andre Dawson

Bert Blyleven

Tommy John

Jack Morris

Tim Raines

Lee Smith

 

 

Bruce, I'm glad to see that you were among the 22% that voted for Raines.

 

And I will continue to do so. There are those who say he's the greatest leadoff man in NL history. I dont' know if that's true, but he's got Hall of Fame credentials in my mind.

[OleMissCub]

And I will continue to do so. There are those who say he's the greatest leadoff man in NL history. I dont' know if that's true, but he's got Hall of Fame credentials in my mind.

 

Do you see Sosa running into the same resistance that the "known" steroid abusers like Mac, Clemens, and Bonds are/will encounter on the ballot?

[Bruce Miles]

And I will continue to do so. There are those who say he's the greatest leadoff man in NL history. I dont' know if that's true, but he's got Hall of Fame credentials in my mind.

 

Do you see Sosa running into the same resistance that the "known" steroid abusers like Mac, Clemens, and Bonds are/will encounter on the ballot?

 

I do. In fact, I had heard that some would hold the corked bat against him, at least as far as "first-ballot" goes. But maybe that'll be forgotten by the time Sammy is eligible. But Sosa's name has not been specifically linked to any scandal, so we'll see what happens with him. I have a feeling he'll have an easier time than McGwire for sure and perhaps Bonds and Clemens.

[fromthestretch]

Rice? yuk. I fully expect to see Grace, Damon, and B. Williams in there in about ten years.

 

As far as Grace, he's going to need the assistance of the Veterans Committee at this point, since he received less than 5% of the votes.

And as we all know, the Veterans Committee isn't worth Veterans Committee.

Do you honestly think any of those three belong in the HOF?

No, but Williams is the closest.

 

Agreed.

[SouthSideRyan]

Why no love for McGwire?

[Bruce Miles]

Why no love for McGwire?

 

 

It's a good and fair question and one I'm going to have to confront pretty soon. I had always gone with the Rolling Stones song of time being on my side here when it comes to considering McGwire. But as my friend Joe Sheean of BP points out, that's probably no longer a good approach because we're probably not going to get any more info on McGwire and steroids.

[rocket]

Why no love for McGwire?

 

 

It's a good and fair question and one I'm going to have to confront pretty soon. I had always gone with the Rolling Stones song of time being on my side here when it comes to considering McGwire. But as my friend Joe Sheean of BP points out, that's probably no longer a good approach because we're probably not going to get any more info on McGwire and steroids.

 

Can I ask why you voted for Jack Morris? The main thing I always hear about is that he was awesome in the 1991 World Series. But overall, his postseason numbers are good but not great, and I would classify his career regular season numbers as "pretty good". But definitely not HOF material.

[OleMissCub]

The difference with McGwire compared to Bonds and Clemens is that Bonds and probably Clemens were already Hall of Famers before they decided to enhance themselves. 193 of Mac's 583 HR came in just three seasons (97,98,99). If he had a non-assisted normal decline I'm not even sure he makes it 500 HR. He doesn't stand out in any other "counting stats" category.

 

Basically I guess what I'm trying to say is that steroids pushed McGwire into being a Hall of Fame type, not so with Bonds and probably Clemens.

[OleMissCub]

On second thought, I don't think Clemens makes the HOF without his steroid use. Allegedly he began using in 97 when he went to Toronto and won 21 games after only winning 10 in both of the previous two seasons.

 

Before he moved to Toronto, Clemens was 33-34 and only had 193 wins and in the previous 4 seasons combined only had 40 wins. So he appeared to be on a pretty steep decline before he went to the Jays.

[SouthSideRyan]

You could argue conversely that alleged PED use helped cut McGwire's career short, more than cancelling out any advantage they gave him in the arbitrary years prior.