College Football - Championship Week

[imb]

As a Texas fan, the only thing that REALLY frustrates me is the BCS rankings used as a tiebreaker.

 

It's to make sure the conference has its best chance at making the title game. If you have the #3 BCS team getting passed up in favor of the #15 team due to the #15 team running up the score in conference play it wouldn't help the conference at all.

 

If there is a three-way tie for first in a conference in the section here for high school football, the first is head-to-head and the second is point differential in the games among the tied teams with a maximum of 13 points per game. I like the tiebreaker because it only uses the results of the games among the three tied teams and doesn't reward running up the score.

If the Big 12 used that system, then Oklahoma would still be going to the title game.

 

i was going to say, in that case texas' 4 point win at home over a team we beat by 20 on the road and their 3 point loss to a team we beat by 44 or whatever is not going to help them

 

That wouldn't, but it should be cumulative rather than picking a few games.

 

I'm not arguing the results as much as the process, though. If OU had a larger point differential and went to the Big 12 Championship instead of Texas, I'd be OK with it. It bugs me that a game like Florida v. Florida St. can have an impact on the Big 12 (by Florida possibly taking some of OU's first place votes, reducing their lead in the Coach's Poll).

 

why should un-common opponents be the deciding factor? Or am I reading your argument wrong?

[imb]

I just did the math in my head real quick and OU is +195 in conference while Texas is +149

 

EDIT

against common big 12 opponents ou is +148 while texas is +100. I'm really not getting what argument you're making.

[jame.gumb]

As a Texas fan, the only thing that REALLY frustrates me is the BCS rankings used as a tiebreaker.

 

It's to make sure the conference has its best chance at making the title game. If you have the #3 BCS team getting passed up in favor of the #15 team due to the #15 team running up the score in conference play it wouldn't help the conference at all.

 

If there is a three-way tie for first in a conference in the section here for high school football, the first is head-to-head and the second is point differential in the games among the tied teams with a maximum of 13 points per game. I like the tiebreaker because it only uses the results of the games among the three tied teams and doesn't reward running up the score.

If the Big 12 used that system, then Oklahoma would still be going to the title game.

 

i was going to say, in that case texas' 4 point win at home over a team we beat by 20 on the road and their 3 point loss to a team we beat by 44 or whatever is not going to help them

 

That wouldn't, but it should be cumulative rather than picking a few games.

 

I'm not arguing the results as much as the process, though. If OU had a larger point differential and went to the Big 12 Championship instead of Texas, I'd be OK with it. It bugs me that a game like Florida v. Florida St. can have an impact on the Big 12 (by Florida possibly taking some of OU's first place votes, reducing their lead in the Coach's Poll).

 

why should un-common opponents be the deciding factor? Or am I reading your argument wrong?

 

You might or might not be reading it wrong, but that's definitely not my argument. I'd be fine if they took the Big 12 South point differential since the teams play different North teams each year.

 

Again, I'm not advocating Texas in the championship (though I'd like it). I'm advocating a better indicator of season-long conference success. I think point differential is a better indicator than BCS rankings.

[imb]

As a Texas fan, the only thing that REALLY frustrates me is the BCS rankings used as a tiebreaker.

 

It's to make sure the conference has its best chance at making the title game. If you have the #3 BCS team getting passed up in favor of the #15 team due to the #15 team running up the score in conference play it wouldn't help the conference at all.

 

If there is a three-way tie for first in a conference in the section here for high school football, the first is head-to-head and the second is point differential in the games among the tied teams with a maximum of 13 points per game. I like the tiebreaker because it only uses the results of the games among the three tied teams and doesn't reward running up the score.

If the Big 12 used that system, then Oklahoma would still be going to the title game.

 

i was going to say, in that case texas' 4 point win at home over a team we beat by 20 on the road and their 3 point loss to a team we beat by 44 or whatever is not going to help them

 

That wouldn't, but it should be cumulative rather than picking a few games.

 

I'm not arguing the results as much as the process, though. If OU had a larger point differential and went to the Big 12 Championship instead of Texas, I'd be OK with it. It bugs me that a game like Florida v. Florida St. can have an impact on the Big 12 (by Florida possibly taking some of OU's first place votes, reducing their lead in the Coach's Poll).

 

why should un-common opponents be the deciding factor? Or am I reading your argument wrong?

 

You might or might not be reading it wrong, but that's definitely not my argument. I'd be fine if they took the Big 12 South point differential since the teams play different North teams each year.

 

Again, I'm not advocating Texas in the championship (though I'd like it). I'm advocating a better indicator of season-long conference success. I think point differential is a better indicator than BCS rankings.

 

Sorry, I worded that terribly. I meant "why should point differential from uncommon opponents be included?" It doesn't matter though, because OU is ahead of texas either way.

 

And while I'm glad we're going to KC, I'm also afraid that we beat Missouri and then get blown out by Florida. Part of my wants to just beat Utah somewhere and not have to deal with it.

[bukie]

OU vs. Texas: results vs. common opponents

 

Opponent   OU    Margin     Texas Margin
Baylor     49-17     32     45-21     24
A&M        66-28     38     49- 9     40
Tech       65-21     42     33-39     -6
OSU        61-41     20     28-24      4
Kansas     45-31     14     35- 7     28
Totals              146               90

 

Obvious advantage to OU.

 

Overall point differential in all games: OU 342, Texas 304

[SouthSideRyan]

OU vs. Texas: results vs. common opponents

 

Opponent   OU    Margin     Texas Margin
Baylor     49-17     32     45-21     24
A&M        66-28     38     49- 9     40
Tech       65-21     42     33-39     -6
OSU        61-41     20     28-24      4
Kansas     45-31     14     35- 7     28
Totals              146               90

 

Obvious advantage to OU.

 

Overall point differential in all games: OU 342, Texas 304

 

The difference for common opponents is basically the Texas Tech game.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I was going to suggest using the strength of North teams faced as a tiebreaker, but those are actually tied for all 3 teams in the South as well(Texas would've been ahead had either Mizzou or Colorado hung on to win this weekend).

 

Since you're dying to know, Mizzou's Offensive Coordinator Dave Christensen took the head coaching job at Wyoming. He's staying to coach through the bowl game.

 

Speaking of Bowl Games, Mizzou is locked into theirs now. They win Saturday(lol) and go to the Fiesta, they lose Saturday and go to the Alamo to face either Iowa or Northwestern, according to the Alamo Bowl selection committee.

[jame.gumb]

As a Texas fan, the only thing that REALLY frustrates me is the BCS rankings used as a tiebreaker.

 

It's to make sure the conference has its best chance at making the title game. If you have the #3 BCS team getting passed up in favor of the #15 team due to the #15 team running up the score in conference play it wouldn't help the conference at all.

 

If there is a three-way tie for first in a conference in the section here for high school football, the first is head-to-head and the second is point differential in the games among the tied teams with a maximum of 13 points per game. I like the tiebreaker because it only uses the results of the games among the three tied teams and doesn't reward running up the score.

If the Big 12 used that system, then Oklahoma would still be going to the title game.

 

i was going to say, in that case texas' 4 point win at home over a team we beat by 20 on the road and their 3 point loss to a team we beat by 44 or whatever is not going to help them

 

That wouldn't, but it should be cumulative rather than picking a few games.

 

I'm not arguing the results as much as the process, though. If OU had a larger point differential and went to the Big 12 Championship instead of Texas, I'd be OK with it. It bugs me that a game like Florida v. Florida St. can have an impact on the Big 12 (by Florida possibly taking some of OU's first place votes, reducing their lead in the Coach's Poll).

 

why should un-common opponents be the deciding factor? Or am I reading your argument wrong?

 

You might or might not be reading it wrong, but that's definitely not my argument. I'd be fine if they took the Big 12 South point differential since the teams play different North teams each year.

 

Again, I'm not advocating Texas in the championship (though I'd like it). I'm advocating a better indicator of season-long conference success. I think point differential is a better indicator than BCS rankings.

 

Sorry, I worded that terribly. I meant "why should point differential from uncommon opponents be included?" It doesn't matter though, because OU is ahead of texas either way.

 

And while I'm glad we're going to KC, I'm also afraid that we beat Missouri and then get blown out by Florida. Part of my wants to just beat Utah somewhere and not have to deal with it.

 

I wouldn't want to include uncommon opponents, so I messed up if that's the point I conveyed.

 

Speaking of messing up, I mistakenly left out a week when I added up the point differential a week or so ago. Seeing OU holding the point differential advantage makes me feel better. My point still stands, though, that point differential should have more bearing on the outcome of a conference than BCS standings.

[UMFan83]

OU vs. Texas: results vs. common opponents

 

Opponent   OU    Margin     Texas Margin
Baylor     49-17     32     45-21     24
A&M        66-28     38     49- 9     40
Tech       65-21     42     33-39     -6
OSU        61-41     20     28-24      4
Kansas     45-31     14     35- 7     28
Totals              146               90

 

Obvious advantage to OU.

 

Overall point differential in all games: OU 342, Texas 304

 

It's not a perfect argument to use point differential for all of the contests (at least for this season), especially for the bad opponents like Baylor and A&M. How do we know that Texas didn't build up a 35-0 lead, and then play their 2nd team for the entire second half as it gave up a couple TDs, while OU ran their starters out there the whole game. Probably didn't happen that way, but who knows just an example. The problem with using it in the future is that it will allow teams to run up the score on bad opponents. Maybe a point differential system where there is a cap on each individual game of 25 points or something, so the most any team can gain from one victory is +25

[Transmogrified Tiger]

True story from the Boone Pickens Stadium pressbox Saturday night.

 

I asked Harris poll voter Pat Quinn, the former Oklahoma State University sports information director, how he would vote OU and Texas if the Sooners won Saturday night.

 

“Oh, I don’t know,” Quinn said. “Doesn’t really matter.”

 

Really?

 

“I think Alabama and Penn State will probably play for the national championship,” Quinn said.

 

You do?

 

“They’re the only undefeated teams, aren’t they,” Quinn said.

 

Uh, actually, Penn State has a loss.

 

“Oh well,” Quinn said, “those Big Ten teams have a lot of votes.”

[UMFan83]

True story from the Boone Pickens Stadium pressbox Saturday night.

 

I asked Harris poll voter Pat Quinn, the former Oklahoma State University sports information director, how he would vote OU and Texas if the Sooners won Saturday night.

 

“Oh, I don’t know,” Quinn said. “Doesn’t really matter.”

 

Really?

 

“I think Alabama and Penn State will probably play for the national championship,” Quinn said.

 

You do?

 

“They’re the only undefeated teams, aren’t they,” Quinn said.

 

Uh, actually, Penn State has a loss.

 

“Oh well,” Quinn said, “those Big Ten teams have a lot of votes.”

 

:shock:

 

Reminds me of the stories of the some of the superdelegates during the democratic primaries

[Mephistopheles]

Dodds has inquired about leaving the Big XII, at least that's the word 'round here.

[jame.gumb]

The problem with using it in the future is that it will allow teams to run up the score on bad opponents. Maybe a point differential system where there is a cap on each individual game of 25 points or something, so the most any team can gain from one victory is +25

 

That might work too. I've just never liked the Coach's Poll and hated counting on it to save us.

 

Apologies for having the wrong numbers in this case, but it's more about the principle than the numbers. In my opinion, OU deserves to represent the Big 12 South if they outscored the same opponents as Texas and Tech moreso than by being ranked higher in the BCS.

 

That, of course, doesn't make it any easier to watch OU play for the National Championship after beating them... :nutkick:

 

I will say that I read someone here posting how they feel bad for Colt not being able to win it all. Very classy. I must say that I don't hate OU players or fans NEARLY as much as I did as a student.

[Mephistopheles]

guys point differential isn't all of a sudden important...

[jame.gumb]

guys point differential isn't all of a sudden important...

 

I agree. Most of my frustration is shock that it's not a more important tie-breaker.

 

Also, is Dodds proposing a move to another conference or just to become independent?

[imb]

The problem with using it in the future is that it will allow teams to run up the score on bad opponents. Maybe a point differential system where there is a cap on each individual game of 25 points or something, so the most any team can gain from one victory is +25

 

That might work too. I've just never liked the Coach's Poll and hated counting on it to save us.

 

Apologies for having the wrong numbers in this case, but it's more about the principle than the numbers. In my opinion, OU deserves to represent the Big 12 South if they outscored the same opponents as Texas and Tech moreso than by being ranked higher in the BCS.

 

That, of course, doesn't make it any easier to watch OU play for the National Championship after beating them... :nutkick:

 

I will say that I read someone here posting how they feel bad for Colt not being able to win it all. Very classy. I must say that I don't hate OU players or fans NEARLY as much as I did as a student.

 

that was me!

 

i reserve the right to take it back when texas destroys us next year.

[abuck1220]

mizzou would not be a good matchup for iowa.

[jame.gumb]

The problem with using it in the future is that it will allow teams to run up the score on bad opponents. Maybe a point differential system where there is a cap on each individual game of 25 points or something, so the most any team can gain from one victory is +25

 

That might work too. I've just never liked the Coach's Poll and hated counting on it to save us.

 

Apologies for having the wrong numbers in this case, but it's more about the principle than the numbers. In my opinion, OU deserves to represent the Big 12 South if they outscored the same opponents as Texas and Tech moreso than by being ranked higher in the BCS.

 

That, of course, doesn't make it any easier to watch OU play for the National Championship after beating them... :nutkick:

 

I will say that I read someone here posting how they feel bad for Colt not being able to win it all. Very classy. I must say that I don't hate OU players or fans NEARLY as much as I did as a student.

 

that was me!

 

i reserve the right to take it back when texas destroys us next year.

 

You might not have to worry about that, as Colt is apparently considering entering the draft if he's happy with where he might go. If he's rated highly enough, losing him and Orakpo will give you an easy road to a repeat South Division title.

[Mephistopheles]

Independent apparently. The SEC would open the Longhorns with open arms and the Pac 10 inquired awhile ago. They could go independent in football and enter Conference USA in all other sports and not miss a beat. Texas' key sports are basketball and baseball (other than football). There's not a huge dropoff in basketball to CUSA (i think). CUSA is a better baseball conference than the Big XII, and it is not even close.

[Derwood]

wait, so the Longhorns want to Sour Grape their way out of the Big XII?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Independent apparently. The SEC would open the Longhorns with open arms and the Pac 10 inquired awhile ago. They could go independent in football and enter Conference USA in all other sports and not miss a beat. Texas' key sports are basketball and baseball (other than football). There's not a huge dropoff in basketball to CUSA (i think). CUSA is a better baseball conference than the Big XII, and it is not even close.

 

There's a huge gap in basketball between C-USA and the Big XII.

[bukie]

Independent apparently. The SEC would open the Longhorns with open arms and the Pac 10 inquired awhile ago. They could go independent in football and enter Conference USA in all other sports and not miss a beat. Texas' key sports are basketball and baseball (other than football). There's not a huge dropoff in basketball to CUSA (i think). CUSA is a better baseball conference than the Big XII, and it is not even close.

 

Since Louisville/Cincinnati/Marquette/others left CUSA, there's been a huge dropoff between the "Big 6" and CUSA. Even last year, with a #2 overall Memphis team, the league was 10th overall, and the league was further behind the Missouri Valley than the gap between the top 6 conferences.

[jame.gumb]

Independent apparently. The SEC would open the Longhorns with open arms and the Pac 10 inquired awhile ago. They could go independent in football and enter Conference USA in all other sports and not miss a beat. Texas' key sports are basketball and baseball (other than football). There's not a huge dropoff in basketball to CUSA (i think). CUSA is a better baseball conference than the Big XII, and it is not even close.

 

Wow. What's the reasoning? Likelihood? They could get away with it, since they have established rivalries, but that would be interesting.

[TruffleShuffle]

i am developing a dislike for texas based on this info, though it comes pretty much solely from meph, so take it with a grain of salt.

[Mephistopheles]

Independent apparently. The SEC would open the Longhorns with open arms and the Pac 10 inquired awhile ago. They could go independent in football and enter Conference USA in all other sports and not miss a beat. Texas' key sports are basketball and baseball (other than football). There's not a huge dropoff in basketball to CUSA (i think). CUSA is a better baseball conference than the Big XII, and it is not even close.

 

Wow. What's the reasoning? Likelihood? They could get away with it, since they have established rivalries, but that would be interesting.

 

I dunno. Likelihood: probably minimal. Well their biggest established rivalry prior to the mid 90s was Arkansas and they had no problems cutting that one off to get into the Big XII.