Re: Peavy High on Cubs Wish List

[umpunk]

He says Kevin Towers kept putting Sean Marshall on the table, but the Cubs never agreed to it. I received the same info in talking to a source yesterday (see the 5:02pm update).

 

 

Please tell me that Sean Marshall wasnt one of the main obstacles in this deal? While I can see Hendry not wanting let let DeRosa go, I would give up Marshall for Peavy in a heartbeat.

 

So, you're saying you would trade Marshall for Peavy straight-up? Look, I don't want to be mean to anybody, but trading "DeRosa for Peavy" or "Marshall for Peavy" isn't the issue Hendry had to address. It was trading DeRosa, Pie, Vitters, Marshall, and Marquis (and maybe others) for Peavy. Yes, any one of those pieces alone is a no brainer.

[anabiono]

He says Kevin Towers kept putting Sean Marshall on the table, but the Cubs never agreed to it. I received the same info in talking to a source yesterday (see the 5:02pm update).

 

 

Please tell me that Sean Marshall wasnt one of the main obstacles in this deal? While I can see Hendry not wanting let let DeRosa go, I would give up Marshall for Peavy in a heartbeat.

 

i don't know about that...we would have needed to part ways with marquis and marshall is our swing man since we aren't keeping gaudin around...

 

would else would we use in absence of marshall?

[AZCub]

People forget we were the best team in the NL by far last year. We had one really, really bad series against the Dodgers, which has left a bad taste in our mouths.

 

Peavy wasn’t a necessity…getting a bat is. The Phillies won the World Series throwing guys like Joe Blanton and Grandpa Moyer on the mound.

 

Worry about getting to the playoffs first. Peavy is a luxury we can afford to pursue again later. The Brewers pitching staff is a complete disaster right now, the Cardinals aren’t improving, the Astros are chopping payroll, and the Reds and Pirates suck.

 

Peavy will be there in a week…Bradley or another player we might be pursuing on FA might not be. The details of this deal Hendry turned down are sketchy, as we have a million different sources saying a bunch of different things.

 

Focus.

[Garwilly]

He says Kevin Towers kept putting Sean Marshall on the table, but the Cubs never agreed to it. I received the same info in talking to a source yesterday (see the 5:02pm update).

 

 

Please tell me that Sean Marshall wasnt one of the main obstacles in this deal? While I can see Hendry not wanting let let DeRosa go, I would give up Marshall for Peavy in a heartbeat.

 

 

While you have trouble with letting DeRosa go, you are fine with letting Marshall go. That is fine. But who is to say that these "Marshall obstacles" were not part of a package that also included DeRosa?

[CubinNY]

People forget we were the best team in the NL by far last year. We had one really, really bad series against the Dodgers, which has left a bad taste in our mouths.

 

Peavy wasn’t a necessity…getting a bat is. The Phillies won the World Series throwing guys like Joe Blanton and Grandpa Moyer on the mound.

 

Worry about getting to the playoffs first. Peavy is a luxury we can afford to pursue again later. The Brewers pitching staff is a complete disaster right now, the Cardinals aren’t improving, the Astros are chopping payroll, and the Reds and Pirates suck.

 

Peavy will be there in a week…Bradley or another player we might be pursuing on FA might not be. The details of this deal Hendry turned down are sketchy, as we have a million different sources saying a bunch of different things.

 

Focus.

 

Chasing what won the last WS is exactly Hendry's MO. Unfortunately, what wins every year changes. Staying competitive within the division is also a mantra of the Cubs. Your post exhibits both of those well.

 

It's brought the Cubs nothing.

 

It's one thing if the Cubs had to give up useful players for Peavy, players that can't be easily replaced. Aside from DeRosa none of the players mentioned fit that designation.

 

Unfortunately, we don't really know all the particulars so most of this is speculation but whatever happened, it's apparent that Hendry didn't have all the leverage people assumed he had, or the deal would have gotten done.

[NOLA]

People forget we were the best team in the NL by far last year. We had one really, really bad series against the Dodgers, which has left a bad taste in our mouths.

 

Peavy wasn’t a necessity…getting a bat is. The Phillies won the World Series throwing guys like Joe Blanton and Grandpa Moyer on the mound.

 

Worry about getting to the playoffs first. Peavy is a luxury we can afford to pursue again later. The Brewers pitching staff is a complete disaster right now, the Cardinals aren’t improving, the Astros are chopping payroll, and the Reds and Pirates suck.

 

Peavy will be there in a week…Bradley or another player we might be pursuing on FA might not be. The details of this deal Hendry turned down are sketchy, as we have a million different sources saying a bunch of different things.

 

Focus.

 

WORD!

[C.C.]

Derosa and Marshall? Gone! Done deal!

[Jehrico]

There's a problem with moving Marshall in that deal though. Marquis gets bumped out of the rotation, and based on past experience, won't go to the pen. Plus, they're trying to move his salary, so he's gone regardless. Our rotation would look like Dempster, a former TJ reconstructee; Harden, who could break at any time; Zambrano, who had some arm problems last year; Peavy, who also had arm problems last year; and Lily, who is more or less reliable. If you want to assemble an epic rotation with multiple guys who have some history with arm problems, that's fine. But you better have some decent options to step into rotation, and you better have a strong pen to eat some innings when you can't push your guys over 5 innings regularly. Marshall sounds replacable, but there's really not alot of guys like him available that won't put us in the same salary position that we are in with Marquis. I'm sure Hendry would have done a Marshall for Peavy deal. I'm also sure that Towers wanted a whole lot more than that for Peavy as well.

[cubsfan26]

He says Kevin Towers kept putting Sean Marshall on the table, but the Cubs never agreed to it. I received the same info in talking to a source yesterday (see the 5:02pm update).

 

 

Please tell me that Sean Marshall wasnt one of the main obstacles in this deal? While I can see Hendry not wanting let let DeRosa go, I would give up Marshall for Peavy in a heartbeat.

 

 

It was the combo of Marshall on top of DeRosa, Vitters others and the money. Just like a year ago when the Twins wanted Ian Kennedy thrown in with Phil Hughes and others for Santana, and how they wanted the Red Sox add more players after they were offering Lester and others. It comes to a point were you're just giving up too much when you factor in the money will have to pay, and the talent you will have to replace.

 

 

 

If winning didn't matter next year or we only cared about winning in Peavy starts then this would be a good move, but otherwise it's not. The Cubs didn't make the trade, because it wasn't a good trade for us, it's as simple as that. Hendry made the right move here, when you factor in the amount of talent we would be giving up, and what it does to our roster next year. Then factor in we would have to pay Peavy only 5-6m less then we are for Zambrano deal. Thats why Towers needs to lower his demands, yes Peavy isn't making Santana or Sabathia money, but he's still making alot for the talent he's asking in return.

[NOLA]

With the question marks surrounding our staff, Marshall is much more valuable than he seems at first glance. No, Marshall is not a deal breaker, but him plus looting our depth along with our best prospect was a bit much for another starter. Our bench was a huge asset to us last year. IMO, the proposed package for Peavy would only be acceptable if it were for a stud power right fileder, not another arm no matter how good. Our weakness is our offense, and right now it cannot compete with the bats of Philly, or even the Mets.

[Mephistopheles]

I told you guys that no deal would happen unless it included Geovany Soto. There's no deal.

 

 

I win.

[Derwood]

I told you guys that no deal would happen unless it included Geovany Soto. There's no deal.

 

 

I win.

 

LOL

[nilodnayr]

I told you guys that no deal would happen unless it included Geovany Soto. There's no deal.

 

 

I win.

 

As far as whats reported, towers never demaned soto or even mentioned him.

 

You lose.

[Mephistopheles]

You're right. I never said a deal wouldn't make Towers happy without Soto -- just that any deal without Soto that would make Towers happy would be too much to offer from Hendry's perspective.....which is exactly what happened.

 

I win.

[davearm2]

With the question marks surrounding our staff, Marshall is much more valuable than he seems at first glance. No, Marshall is not a deal breaker, but him plus looting our depth along with our best prospect was a bit much for another starter. Our bench was a huge asset to us last year. IMO, the proposed package for Peavy would only be acceptable if it were for a stud power right fileder, not another arm no matter how good. Our weakness is our offense, and right now it cannot compete with the bats of Philly, or even the Mets.

Just slapped some numbers into a spreadsheet, and what came out was this.

 

As-is, Marshall ought to get in the neighborhood of 22 starts, assuming 20 for Harden and 30 each for Zambrano, Dempster, Lilly, and Marquis. (Now we know in reality a few of those guys will get 33 or 34, and one or two will get 25 or something, but the average of 30 seems OK.)

 

If Marquis and Marshall both go, and Peavy comes in, then you need Peavy and a Mitch Atkins type to provide the 52 starts you just lost.

 

So do you prefer Marquis 30 + Marshall 22, or Peavy 30 + Atkins 22? Obviously those 22 Atkins starts could be painful but IMO it'd be worth the upgrade from Marquis to Peavy.

[Mephistopheles]

I am pretty sure we still employ Jeff Samardzija and Angel Guzman.

[BigbadB]

I am pretty sure we still employ Jeff Samardzija and Angel Guzman.

 

Yep. I see Samardzija going to AAA to get extended. His bullpen spot will be likely be filled by non roster invite filler. Actually, Guzman has a pretty good chance of being the 7th inning guy.

[abuck1220]

He says Kevin Towers kept putting Sean Marshall on the table, but the Cubs never agreed to it. I received the same info in talking to a source yesterday (see the 5:02pm update).

 

 

Please tell me that Sean Marshall wasnt one of the main obstacles in this deal? While I can see Hendry not wanting let let DeRosa go, I would give up Marshall for Peavy in a heartbeat.

 

i don't know about that...we would have needed to part ways with marquis and marshall is our swing man since we aren't keeping gaudin around...

 

would else would we use in absence of marshall?

 

JAKE PEAVY.

[abuck1220]

oh my heavens, we can't give up our SWING MAN! NOT OUR SWING MAN!

[davearm2]

I am pretty sure we still employ Jeff Samardzija and Angel Guzman.

And Rich Hill too. They're all wildcards as starters at the ML level though, which is the point.

[nilodnayr]

You're right. I never said a deal wouldn't make Towers happy without Soto -- just that any deal without Soto that would make Towers happy would be too much to offer from Hendry's perspective.....which is exactly what happened.

 

I win.

 

No, thats not really what you said at all.

[David]

You're right. I never said a deal wouldn't make Towers happy without Soto -- just that any deal without Soto that would make Towers happy would be too much to offer from Hendry's perspective.....which is exactly what happened.

 

I win.

 

No, thats not really what you said at all.

 

He's just being a smartass.... why argue?

[abuck1220]

I am pretty sure we still employ Jeff Samardzija and Angel Guzman.

And Rich Hill too. They're all wildcards as starters at the ML level though, which is the point.

 

as opposed to jason marquis and sean marshall who are rock solid locks to be healthy, awesome major league pitchers.

[UMFan83]

Imagine how good this team would be with Adam Dunn, Jake Peavy and Brian Roberts on the team instead of Rich Hill, Sean Marshall and Sam Fuld.

 

(Just kidding on the BRob/Fuld thing)

[davearm2]

I am pretty sure we still employ Jeff Samardzija and Angel Guzman.

And Rich Hill too. They're all wildcards as starters at the ML level though, which is the point.

 

as opposed to jason marquis and sean marshall who are rock solid locks to be healthy, awesome major league pitchers.

Before you get all snotty perhaps you should go back and notice that I said, "Obviously those 22 Atkins starts could be painful but IMO it'd be worth the upgrade from Marquis to Peavy."