Tribune: Wood Signs Deal with Cleveland (p. 29)

[17 Seconds]

shoulda took Snyder

 

or Snider

 

never heard of him

Duke Snider.

 

Chris Snider

[ChiCubsFan]

shoulda took Snyder

 

or Snider

 

never heard of him

Duke Snider.

although he's 82, i'd take him over TyCo.

[CubsWin]

The Yankees and Cubs aren't the only ones doing this:

 

Phillies

Angels and Dodgers

Tigers

Astros

 

Something is definitely going on here. I mean, cripes, looks at ESPN's Free Agent Tracker. Usually by this time of the year, there are a number of guys who've already signed. This has become a really unusual offseason.

Colusion? Flood the market with high priced FAs to lower the cost?

That's possible. Though it seems much more likely that there are legitimate concerns over the state of the economy.

[BigbadB]

BTW, when did most teams in the NL Central become small market teams? The Astros and Cardinals cannot keep up with the Cubs recent spending, but they are certainly not small market teams. The Brewers and Reds are no Marlins or Rays, but they definitely could be classified small market, and the Pirates are absolutely in that category. But 1 big market and 2 more decent markets is still pretty much the same as most divisions outside the AL East.

 

Yeah, I probably should have elaborated a bit more on that. Houston certainly isn't a small market team, but their ownership has been spending frugally of late, thereby making them appear more like a smaller market team than they really are or should be. St. Louis has been the same way lately.

[jersey cubs fan]

BTW, when did most teams in the NL Central become small market teams? The Astros and Cardinals cannot keep up with the Cubs recent spending, but they are certainly not small market teams. The Brewers and Reds are no Marlins or Rays, but they definitely could be classified small market, and the Pirates are absolutely in that category. But 1 big market and 2 more decent markets is still pretty much the same as most divisions outside the AL East.

 

Yeah, I probably should have elaborated a bit more on that. Houston certainly isn't a small market team, but their ownership has been spending frugally of late, thereby making them appear more like a smaller market team than they really are or should be. St. Louis has been the same way lately.

 

If you generically call it 1 big market and 2 decent markets, fine. But when you look closer it's not the same. Look at the NL East, NY, Philly and Atlanta are on a bigger scale than the Cubs, Houston and STL. Cincy, MIL, Pitt are very much small market teams. MIL only recently started dabbling in expensive players, only because a boatload of good young talent excited fans. Cincy has been an absolute joke of a franchise this entire decade. They are nothing more than the Washington Nationals. And while Florida is the quintessential small market team, it has regularly "gone for it" with major spending and investment.

 

Hendry has been a major player with the organization since the early 90's, and right near the top of the hierarchy throughout this decade. And it took him until this year to field a team that was legitimately very good. And the biggest reason it happened was because he was playing with house money the competition could only dream of, while that same competition was cutting back.

[BigbadB]

I also wonder how Epstein would be viewed if the Yanks had finished off the sweep in the '04 ALCS.

 

At one point Epstein quit his GM job before agreeing to return a short while later (Wikipedia says: Epstein resigned in October 2005, but was rehired as GM and Executive Vice President on January 24, 2006.). Perhaps the Sox brass isn't quite so inclined to convince him to return if '04 didn't play out the way it did.

 

If things go down that way, he's just another whiz kid that couldn't do any better than the old-school guys he succeeded. Maybe '07 happens without him, and maybe it doesn't.

 

Curious to think about, at any rate.

 

Personally, I don't put all that much stock into a GM's post season record. It's the GM's job to put a team on the field that can consistently get to the postseason. Obviously, the stronger the team the better. It's the players and managers who then need to continue to play in the playoffs the way they played all season.

[UMFan83]

Yeah, most of the teams in our division (St. Louis, Cincinnati, Houston) can operate as larger market teams, probably not top tier like NY, Boston, Chicago, but a step below, but have chosen not to. Pittsburgh and Milwaukee operate like mostly small market teams (Milwaukee is the smallest market in baseball but has decent corporate backing, new ballpark, and owners willing to spend), but can open up the pocketbooks when the team is winning and fans are showing up every night (in the case of Milwaukee last year). The division is actually quite a nice mix of large, medium and small market teams.

[jersey cubs fan]

Yeah, most of the teams in our division (St. Louis, Cincinnati, Houston) can operate as larger market teams, probably not top tier like NY, Boston, Chicago, but a step below, but have chosen not to. Pittsburgh and Milwaukee operate like mostly small market teams (Milwaukee is the smallest market in baseball but has decent corporate backing, new ballpark, and owners willing to spend), but can open up the pocketbooks when the team is winning and fans are showing up every night (in the case of Milwaukee last year). The division is actually quite a nice mix of large, medium and small market teams.

 

And the Cubs are by far in the best position financially and should therefore contend every year and win big quite often.

[Guest]

Houston is simply poorly run. Houston is the fourth biggest city in the US with around 2M people and the city has been flush with oil money throughout the decade. It's true that Chicago is significantly larger - especially in metro population - but the Astros don't have the split the market with another team. They also aren't bounded by additional teams as close as Milwaukee, St. Louis and Detroit are to Chicago. Texas is also the second most populous state in the country and with good marketing in place the Astros should be able to capture revenue from television markets in areas of the state such as San Antonio. Louisiana should be a natural territory for the Astros, as well. And the Astros even have a relatively new stadium to create revenue.

 

In all, if the team were marketed as effectively as the Cubs, I can't see how they shouldn't be able to bring in even more money.

[davearm2]

I also wonder how Epstein would be viewed if the Yanks had finished off the sweep in the '04 ALCS.

 

At one point Epstein quit his GM job before agreeing to return a short while later (Wikipedia says: Epstein resigned in October 2005, but was rehired as GM and Executive Vice President on January 24, 2006.). Perhaps the Sox brass isn't quite so inclined to convince him to return if '04 didn't play out the way it did.

 

If things go down that way, he's just another whiz kid that couldn't do any better than the old-school guys he succeeded. Maybe '07 happens without him, and maybe it doesn't.

 

Curious to think about, at any rate.

 

Personally, I don't put all that much stock into a GM's post season record. It's the GM's job to put a team on the field that can consistently get to the postseason. Obviously, the stronger the team the better. It's the players and managers who then need to continue to play in the playoffs the way they played all season.

I agree 100% with everything you just wrote. In fact the other day I made the point that for all intents and purposes, a GM's roster-building efforts end 2 to 3 months before the World Series rolls around. It's not unlike how a "winning pitcher" often leaves the game 3 or 4 innings before the game's actually over.

 

Rightly or wrongly, though, Epstein's reputation has benefitted greatly from the fact that the Sox broke their "curse" under his direction, and so IMO it'd be interesting to consider what his legacy would be if the Sox hadn't won in '04, and hadn't begged him to come back after he up and quit after '05.

[davearm2]

Yeah, most of the teams in our division (St. Louis, Cincinnati, Houston) can operate as larger market teams, probably not top tier like NY, Boston, Chicago, but a step below, but have chosen not to. Pittsburgh and Milwaukee operate like mostly small market teams (Milwaukee is the smallest market in baseball but has decent corporate backing, new ballpark, and owners willing to spend), but can open up the pocketbooks when the team is winning and fans are showing up every night (in the case of Milwaukee last year). The division is actually quite a nice mix of large, medium and small market teams.

 

And the Cubs are by far in the best position financially and should therefore contend every year and win big quite often.

I don't disagree with the notion that the Cubs ought to contend every year.

 

I would point out, though, that you'd need only one hand (with fingers to spare) to count the teams that actually do contend every year.

 

Boston and NYY. Anaheim, lately. That's pretty much it, now that teams like STL and ATL have faded. (Meanwhile the Cubs have been contenders in 4 of the last 6 years themselves.)

 

So maybe building a well-oiled, perennial contending machine isn't quite as easy as it sounds. And maybe the Cubs aren't too far from the discussion to begin with.

[BigbadB]

So maybe building a well-oiled, perennial contending machine isn't quite as easy as it sounds. And maybe the Cubs aren't too far from the discussion to begin with.

 

Actually, I believe they are. I believe they have a small window of opportunity to win at this point because they looked to veteran players to build the powerhouse they currently have, rather than build from within.

 

The big league team is aging and the farm system is in complete disarray. These are not the traits of a team who can maintain a perennial foothold atop the NL Central standings. That's not to say that new ownership and a GM can't turn things around in a hurry. As long as you can keep throwing money around, you probably won't see them battling Pittsburgh for 6th place. In a sense, I kind of feel like the biggest reason St. Louis isn't making a splash right now is because their farm system isn't very strong right now, either. It's like they are storing nuts for the winter. Develop the farm, trade for young talent and then take the available cash to make a strong run next year or the year after that.

 

It's just odd that they would sit on their hands with one of the best players in the league, who is not getting any younger.

 

At the same time, Atlanta is going against their own business model of developing young talent and then filling in the holes where necessary. They are spending unnecessary resources for a team that probably isn't really going to be ready to contend until 2010. I'd be pissed if I was a Braves fan and watched this latest Vasquez trade go down.

[cubsfan26]

Last season was the first time the Cubs really spent that much more money then the Cardinals/Astros. So even though the Cubs are a big market team,and Cards/Astros are a middle market teams. Payroll wise it was pretty close for the first 4 or 5 years Hendry was GM.

 

 

03

Cards-83m

Cubs 79 m

Astros 71m

 

04

Cubs 90m

Cards 83m

Astros 75m

 

05

Cardinals 92m

Cubs 87m

Astros 76m

 

06

Cubs 94m

Astros 92m

Cardinals 88m

 

07

Cubs 99m

Cardinals-90m

Astros 87m

 

08

Cubs 118m

Cardinals- 99m

Astros 88m

[CubinNY]

Last season was the first time the Cubs really spent that much more money then the Cardinals/Astros. So even though the Cubs are a big market team,and Cards/Astros are a middle market teams. Payroll wise it was pretty close for the first 4 or 5 years Hendry was GM.

 

 

03

Cards-83m

Cubs 79 m

Astros 71m

 

04

Cubs 90m

Cards 83m

Astros 75m

 

05

Cardinals 92m

Cubs 87m

Astros 76m

 

06

Cubs 94m

Astros 92m

Cardinals 88m

 

07

Cubs 99m

Cardinals-90m

Astros 87m

 

08

Cubs 118m

Cardinals- 99m

Astros 88m

It's not that simple.

[jersey cubs fan]

Your dollar figures are off. They don't include things like money the Cubs spent paying guys not to play for them, and in season acquisitions. Hendry has more resources at his disposal than the competition. Opening day payroll is not the only way to show that.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Your dollar figures are off. They don't include things like money the Cubs spent paying guys not to play for them, and in season acquisitions. Hendry has more resources at his disposal than the competition. Opening day payroll is not the only way to show that.

 

And draft picks. The Cubs have spent a ton of money on draft picks in recent years.

[StylesClash]

I don't know if anyone has brought this point up but we received supplemental first round selections for both Jason Kendall and Juan Pierre, two players who the Cubs did not offer arbitration to. So while we can't pickup another teams first round selection wont the Cubs atleat receive a sandwhich pick for losing Kerry Wood? Essentially it would be Wood and Ceda for Gregg and the supplemental first round player. Thats not such a bad exchange of talent. Plus we opened up a little more payroll flexibility.

[CubColtPacer]

I don't know if anyone has brought this point up but we received supplemental first round selections for both Jason Kendall and Juan Pierre, two players who the Cubs did not offer arbitration to. So while we can't pickup another teams first round selection wont the Cubs atleat receive a sandwhich pick for losing Kerry Wood? Essentially it would be Wood and Ceda for Gregg and the supplemental first round player. Thats not such a bad exchange of talent. Plus we opened up a little more payroll flexibility.

 

The Cubs did offer arbitration to both Pierre and Kendall. In both those situations, they signed before the arbitration deadline. Since they were already under contract with another club, there was no risk for the Cubs, and so they were able to offer arbitration and get the picks.

[erik316wttn]

Someone on Baseball Tonight predicted Wood would end up in Milwaukee as the closer.

 

I can't even imagine that.

[ChiCubsFan]

Someone on Baseball Tonight predicted Wood would end up in Milwaukee as the closer.

 

I can't even imagine that.

 

Yeah I saw that. I would cry. Although, truthfully I wouldn't mind seeing the Brewers waste $10M+ per year for the next 3 years or so on a reliever. I'd just rather it not be Kerry.

[Bote McBoteface]

I guess we'd kind of deserve that for that whole Jim Edmonds thing.

[BigbadB]

If he does go there, I hope he puts all of his weight back on, stops shaving and getting hair cuts, gets himself some prescription glasses and then wear his uniform in a way that resembles Gagne.

[17 Seconds]

From Bruce in the Peavy thread-

 

Because they didn't want to pay him $10 million a year, even for one year. From what I've been told, Wood and his agent made it pretty clear they wanted a three year deal, going all the way back into this past season. Wood never came to the Cubs and said he'd take a one year deal. When he was pressed during the press conference, he said, in effect, "Sure, I'd take a one year." And if he doesn't get the three year deal he wants from the right team, my guess is he'd explore it with the Cubs. For how much, I don't know. That's only my speculation. Maybe they'd do something for $6-7 million with incentives. Who knows?

 

Like I've said all along, it sounds like Wood was just trying to save face with Cubs fans and was kind of full of it.

[Derwood]

you mean all the outrage was undeserved? perish the thought

[17 Seconds]

you mean the outrage at hendry for not signing him to a one year deal?