Cubs acquire Kevin Gregg for Jose Ceda

[USSoccer]

This is such a poor move. We've made our team worse today on like 3 levels.

[TheRaven]

Just so we're clear, the deal really is (from our perspective):

 

Gregg for Ceda and Wood.

 

That's an undeniably, unmistakably, irrefutably, bad thing for the Cubs.

 

Then state it as the deal is:

 

Gregg for Ceda + Wood and a 4 year guaranteed high dollar contract.

How about:

 

1 year of Gregg as closer

four first round draft picks

$35M to spend elsewhere over 4 years

 

vs

 

Ceda + Wood

 

Does that make anyone feel any better?

 

No.

 

Trading Ceda for Gregg wasn't the only alternative to not signing Wood.

 

What are some realistic alternatives that can be had? Perhaps comparing them will be helpful.

 

We're not in contact with other GMs so there is no way we could possibly know who is available. That's kind of a silly thing to ask.

 

Then it is kind of silly to say that there are better alternatives.

 

A) He never said there were better alternatives

 

B) Just because you can't give examples of something doesn't mean it's not true

 

A) He said there are alternatives. He wishes they explored those alternatives. Can one not assume that he is referring to a better alternative then?

 

B) When backing up words and statements, thus making them meaningful, there should be something there to back it up. Otherwise, they are just empty words. It might be what you believe, but it certainly does not make it fact. That is the beauty of stats and baseball. You can find stats to back up your arguments. When someone wants to know who is the best player, you can prove it rather than just saying it.

[erik316wttn]

Just so we're clear, the deal really is (from our perspective):

 

Gregg for Ceda and Wood.

 

That's an undeniably, unmistakably, irrefutably, bad thing for the Cubs.

 

Then state it as the deal is:

 

Gregg for Ceda + Wood and a 4 year guaranteed high dollar contract.

How about:

 

1 year of Gregg as closer

four first round draft picks

$35M to spend elsewhere over 4 years

 

vs

 

Ceda + Wood

 

Does that make anyone feel any better?

you stole my exact post. :(

 

Damn you all with your "logic" and "reason." I was having quite a fun time overreacting. It's very cathartic in a way.

 

BUT, that being said, it's still a bad move for next year. We've weakened both our bullpen and our farm system. And now that Marmol will most likely close, we lose that dominance out of the pen with the game tied in the 7th with 1 out and runners on 2nd and 3rd.

[cubsfan26]

He's good enough.

 

You don't pay 5M + a prospect for good enough. Would anybody be satisfied with paying 5M for an averagish setup man as a free agent? Why are we ok with spending 5M + a prospect who could've possibly filled that spot?

 

 

Because your getting him for one year at 5m, plus draft picks to make up for the lose of Ceda. You can't get set-up guys as good as Gregg for less then 5y at 15m these days on the open market, especially ones with closer experience.The problem with signing relievers is usually the amount of years and not how much per year. Since the relievers are usually good for a year or two of the contract but then drop off.

 

 

Teams contending for the playoffs, can't count on could've possibly filled that spot. The Cubs needed to replace the lose of Wood, this is probably the best way they could. Some people are upset over this move, but how could have we filled this spot in a better way? I know some will say go with Samardzija, Wuertz, Gaudin and Guzman. But then you will also be the first people complaining that the bullpen sucks. When Wuertz struggles for a few weeks and ends up in Lou doghouse, Guzman gets hurt, and Samardzija goes through growing pains.

Edited November 14, 2008 by cubsfan26

[cubweiser03]

Suckidy suck suck.

This days sucks big ones for cubs news.

[SouthSideRyan]

I can't find a single playoff team that had a 5M setup man. I'm not sure there's one in existence that wasn't paid by the Yankees. The draft pick is assuming that Gregg does well enough for us to qualify as an A in addition to not accept arb.

[David]

Why are people so convinced that Gregg will be used as setup and not closer?

 

I'd say it's likely they want to go with Marmol, but I wouldn't say it's a sure thing. Maybe 60/40 IMO.

 

There's a decent chance that Lou recognizes that Marmol's value is as a guy who comes in to put out fires. After all, that's what he used him for all year.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm not sure Gregg would last 2 months in the closer position.

[RedFlash]

I can't find a single playoff team that had a 5M setup man. I'm not sure there's one in existence that wasn't paid by the Yankees. The draft pick is assuming that Gregg does well enough for us to qualify as an A in addition to not accept arb.

 

Uh...........the White Sox?

 

Dotel at $5 million and Linebrink at $4 million, perhaps?

[Tyrant]

I think they're freaking out over losing Jose Ceda for someone so mediocre as Kevin Gregg when we could've used him as one of our upper prospects in a deal for someone better.

 

His ERA+ over the last three years are 110, 122, 125. He's not mediocre.

[cubsfan26]

I can't find a single playoff team that had a 5M setup man. I'm not sure there's one in existence that wasn't paid by the Yankees. The draft pick is assuming that Gregg does well enough for us to qualify as an A in addition to not accept arb.

 

The Brewers had a few guys making around 5m as set-up guys. I think the Phillies also paid Tom Gordon around 5m, but he was on the DL. Plus nobody said that Gregg wouldn't end up being the closer next season. As for being a type A, Gregg just has be somewhat decent this year and he will. But after how he pitched the last two years, I don't know why we would suck next year at his age. Besides a two week stretch when Gregg was probably pitching hurt, he was pretty good last year.

Edited November 14, 2008 by cubsfan26

[Guest]

Just so we're clear, the deal really is (from our perspective):

 

Gregg for Ceda and Wood.

 

That's an undeniably, unmistakably, irrefutably, bad thing for the Cubs.

 

Then state it as the deal is:

 

Gregg for Ceda + Wood and a 4 year guaranteed high dollar contract.

How about:

 

1 year of Gregg as closer

four first round draft picks

$35M to spend elsewhere over 4 years

 

vs

 

Ceda + Wood

 

Does that make anyone feel any better?

you stole my exact post. :(

Sorry - I caught up to yours on the next page. And then about 15 other people who made the same point after you.

 

That'll teach me to reply when there's still 5-10 pages to the end of the thread. #-o

[SouthSideRyan]

I can't find a single playoff team that had a 5M setup man. I'm not sure there's one in existence that wasn't paid by the Yankees. The draft pick is assuming that Gregg does well enough for us to qualify as an A in addition to not accept arb.

 

Uh...........the White Sox?

 

Dotel at $5 million and Linebrink at $4 million, perhaps?

 

I was looking at just the best of the non-closers on those teams(i.e. Matt Thornton), but yes, the White Sox are a good comp, paying their 4th best bullpen arm 5 million dollars.

[cubsfan26]

I'm not sure Gregg would last 2 months in the closer position.

 

If Dempster lasted all of 2007, with Marmol and Howry pitching so well in the second half. I'm confident Kevin Gregg will do just fine in the closer role.

[nilodnayr]

 

No.

 

Trading Ceda for Gregg wasn't the only alternative to not signing Wood.

 

What are some realistic alternatives that can be had? Perhaps comparing them will be helpful.

 

We're not in contact with other GMs so there is no way we could possibly know who is available. That's kind of a silly thing to ask.

 

Then it is kind of silly to say that there are better alternatives.

 

A) He never said there were better alternatives

 

B) Just because you can't give examples of something doesn't mean it's not true

 

A) He said there are alternatives. He wishes they explored those alternatives. Can one not assume that he is referring to a better alternative then?

 

B) When backing up words and statements, thus making them meaningful, there should be something there to back it up. Otherwise, they are just empty words. It might be what you believe, but it certainly does not make it fact. That is the beauty of stats and baseball. You can find stats to back up your arguments. When someone wants to know who is the best player, you can prove it rather than just saying it.

 

Alternatives:

 

Trading someone other than Ceda for Gregg

Signing Affeldt

Signing Springer

Signing Oliver

Signing Cruz

Signing Hoffman

Signing Farns

Signing Lyon

Trading for Street

Trading for Heilman

Trading for a Rays reliever

Trading for Madson

umpteen bagillion other serviceable relievers

 

Do you really think it was Gregg or bust? Do you really think they wouldnt have traded for anyone but Ceda? Are you really that uncreative?

Edited November 14, 2008 by nilodnayr

[nilodnayr]

I can't find a single playoff team that had a 5M setup man. I'm not sure there's one in existence that wasn't paid by the Yankees. The draft pick is assuming that Gregg does well enough for us to qualify as an A in addition to not accept arb.

 

Uh...........the White Sox?

 

Dotel at $5 million and Linebrink at $4 million, perhaps?

And who did they trade for those guys? OHHHHH right...

[badnews]

Kevin Gregg is one of those mirage closers it's nice to have but not smart to acquire. They suck for another team, go to a new team and do decently with saves, usually with a high WHIP, and then some other team trades for them and they suck again.

 

This is pretty much an identical situation as to when the Dodgers traded for Danys Baez. Or when the Braves traded for Dan Kolb.

[imb]

I can't find a single playoff team that had a 5M setup man. I'm not sure there's one in existence that wasn't paid by the Yankees. The draft pick is assuming that Gregg does well enough for us to qualify as an A in addition to not accept arb.

 

he's had an ERA+ of over 100 for three years running

 

i mean, howry was a type a, how could gregg not be

[nilodnayr]

I can't find a single playoff team that had a 5M setup man. I'm not sure there's one in existence that wasn't paid by the Yankees. The draft pick is assuming that Gregg does well enough for us to qualify as an A in addition to not accept arb.

 

The Brewers had a few guys making around 5m as set-up guys. I think the Phillies also paid Tom Gordon around 5m, but he was on the DL. Plus nobody said that Gregg wouldn't end up being the closer next season. As for being a type A, Gregg just has be somewhat decent this year and he will. But after how he pitched the last two years, I don't know why we would suck next year at his age. Besides a two week stretch when Gregg was probably pitching hurt, he was pretty good last year.

Riske? Who'd they trade for him?

 

Actually, speaking of the brewers reminded me that the Torres trade is a pretty good comp...Ceda is much more highly thought of than either guy the Bucs got.

[RedFlash]

Although I don't want Gregg as a closer (ideally 7th inning/backup closer), this move will turn out to be a nice under the radar move for the Cubs provided they keep Gregg. The biggest thing Roths will work on with Gregg is lowering the walks of Gregg. If Gregg can lower his walk totals, then he can become a really good reliever.

[nilodnayr]

Although I don't want Gregg as a closer (ideally 7th inning/backup closer), this move will turn out to be a nice under the radar move for the Cubs provided they keep Gregg. The biggest thing Roths will work on with Gregg is lowering the walks of Gregg. If Gregg can lower his walk totals, then he can become a really good reliever.

 

Ohhh, its just that easy?

[cubsfan26]

 

No.

 

Trading Ceda for Gregg wasn't the only alternative to not signing Wood.

 

What are some realistic alternatives that can be had? Perhaps comparing them will be helpful.

 

We're not in contact with other GMs so there is no way we could possibly know who is available. That's kind of a silly thing to ask.

 

Then it is kind of silly to say that there are better alternatives.

 

A) He never said there were better alternatives

 

B) Just because you can't give examples of something doesn't mean it's not true

 

A) He said there are alternatives. He wishes they explored those alternatives. Can one not assume that he is referring to a better alternative then?

 

B) When backing up words and statements, thus making them meaningful, there should be something there to back it up. Otherwise, they are just empty words. It might be what you believe, but it certainly does not make it fact. That is the beauty of stats and baseball. You can find stats to back up your arguments. When someone wants to know who is the best player, you can prove it rather than just saying it.

 

Alternatives:

 

Trading someone other than Ceda for Gregg

Signing Affeldt

Signing Springer

Signing Oliver

Signing Cruz

Signing Hoffman

Signing Farns

Signing Lyon

Trading for Street

Trading for a Rays reliever

Trading for Madson

umpteen bagillion other serviceable relievers

 

Do you really think it was Gregg or bust? Do you really think they wouldnt have traded for anyone but Ceda? Are you really that uncreative?

 

 

Affeldt and Oliver are LH specialist, who I actually think this team will still add, but probably a lesser one. Street, Madson and a young reliever with the Rays would cost alot more then Jose Ceda. Juan Cruz could end up getting a Dotel or Linebrink type contract this offseason, and Lyon will probably get a two year deal as well. Russ Springer turned down 2-3 year deals to stay with the Cardinals last offseason. If he leaves St. Louis he will probably want more then a one year deal. Hoffman might have been a realistic option, but he would probably cost more then 4-5m per season. Kyle Farnsworth well I don't need to explain why thats a much worse idea.

[17 Seconds]

I can't find a single playoff team that had a 5M setup man. I'm not sure there's one in existence that wasn't paid by the Yankees. The draft pick is assuming that Gregg does well enough for us to qualify as an A in addition to not accept arb.

 

The Brewers had a few guys making around 5m as set-up guys. I think the Phillies also paid Tom Gordon around 5m, but he was on the DL. Plus nobody said that Gregg wouldn't end up being the closer next season. As for being a type A, Gregg just has be somewhat decent this year and he will. But after how he pitched the last two years, I don't know why we would suck next year at his age. Besides a two week stretch when Gregg was probably pitching hurt, he was pretty good last year.

Riske? Who'd they trade for him?

 

Actually, speaking of the brewers reminded me that the Torres trade is a pretty good comp...Ceda is much more highly thought of than either guy the Bucs got.

 

They gave Riske 3/13 last offseason

[17 Seconds]

I can't find a single playoff team that had a 5M setup man. I'm not sure there's one in existence that wasn't paid by the Yankees. The draft pick is assuming that Gregg does well enough for us to qualify as an A in addition to not accept arb.

 

Uh...........the White Sox?

 

Dotel at $5 million and Linebrink at $4 million, perhaps?

 

I was looking at just the best of the non-closers on those teams(i.e. Matt Thornton), but yes, the White Sox are a good comp, paying their 4th best bullpen arm 5 million dollars.

 

Scot Shields is another one and David Riske is pretty close

[David]

Although I don't want Gregg as a closer (ideally 7th inning/backup closer), this move will turn out to be a nice under the radar move for the Cubs provided they keep Gregg. The biggest thing Roths will work on with Gregg is lowering the walks of Gregg. If Gregg can lower his walk totals, then he can become a really good reliever.

 

Explain why you'd rather have Gregg in for tougher situations and Marmol being used in the 9th inning with nobody on and a lead of 1-3 runs for the vast majority of his appearances. 7th and 8th inning guys tend to come in more often in tougher situations than closers.