4/15 - Bulls (41-40) vs. Toronto (32-49) - 7 pm, CSN

[Sosa21MVP]

With Granger out I kind of figured this game to be a loss for the Pacers. Oh well they probably will insist on winning 32-33 games anyways and ruining their draft position as usual.

[SpongeWorthy]

120-102 over the Magic. Probably the best offensive game of the season.

 

Howard had a nice game but didn't completely blow us away like big men have been doing all year. The guard rotation between Gordon, Hinrich, and Salmons looked pretty solid tonight. Good stuff from Noah and Miller too.

[Flames24Rulz]

120-102 over the Magic. Probably the best offensive game of the season.

 

Howard had a nice game but didn't completely blow us away like big men have been doing all year. The guard rotation between Gordon, Hinrich, and Salmons looked pretty solid tonight. Good stuff from Noah and Miller too.

 

Tim Thomas actually had a real nice 4th quarter helping us pad the lead. I'm impressed.

 

Pretty good beatdown of the third best team in the East. Now watch us throw up a clunker or two against two should-be W's in New Jersey and Washington.

[cubswin2009]

Good to see an aggressive Derrick Rose.

[wolf stansson]

WTF Orlando.

[bcl412]

Hopefully this Bulls team shows up the rest of the year. I'm still holding out for a huge first round upset.

[wolf stansson]

Paper lion playoff teams are the reason we have Luol Deng on 70 mil, Kirk Hinrich on 42 and no Skiles. I'm not interested.

[ChiCubsFan]

Hopefully this Bulls team shows up the rest of the year. I'm still holding out for a huge first round upset.

 

Realistically we'd have to get the 6 seed for a chance at that.

[SpongeWorthy]

Paper lion playoff teams are the reason we have Luol Deng on 70 mil, Kirk Hinrich on 42 and no Skiles. I'm not interested.

 

What does this even mean?

[manbearcub]

Paper lion playoff teams are the reason we have Luol Deng on 70 mil, Kirk Hinrich on 42 and no Skiles. I'm not interested.

 

What does this even mean?

"Paper lion playoff teams" = wolfspeak for "John Paxson" ?

[ChiCubsFan]

I'm really diggin this new 9 man rotation. The new guys and Hinrich make up a pretty decent bench.

[Soul]

Paper lion playoff teams are the reason we have Luol Deng on 70 mil, Kirk Hinrich on 42 and no Skiles. I'm not interested.

 

What does this even mean?

"Paper lion playoff teams" = wolfspeak for "John Paxson" ?

 

He means we overvalued ourselves when we were making the playoffs, paid our players too much thinking they were going to be stars when they weren't. At least I think that's what he means.

[Derwood]

Isn't the term "paper tiger"?

[wolf stansson]

Paper lion playoff teams are the reason we have Luol Deng on 70 mil, Kirk Hinrich on 42 and no Skiles. I'm not interested.

 

What does this even mean?

Paper lion means something looks better than it actually is. We had a handful of playoff teams under Skiles that weren't actually anything good or anything worth building around, yet because of their success, Paxson has held on to players like Hinrich and Deng not just as bit pieces but as building blocks.

 

It's easy to forget, but we shouldn't have Derrick Rose. We should have someone in the 8-10 range of that draft. How screwed would we be without Rose? We'd have nothing for now or the future. Making the playoffs this year accomplishes nothing, because there are maybe 2 or 3 players on this squad that are going to be on a contending Bulls team in 3-4 years. All it does is mess with your draft position and fool you into signing meh players for more money than they are worth.

Isn't the term "paper tiger"?

It's a metaphor. Insert large, carnivorous animal here.

[David]

I'd like the idea of getting Rose a taste of the NBA playoffs right away and maybe even some minor playoff success, similar to Wade's rookie year. That's worth more to me than a few draft slots in what amounts to a pretty weak draft.

[jersey cubs fan]

Isn't the term "paper tiger"?

It's a metaphor. Insert large' date=' carnivorous animal here.[/quote']

 

The term is paper tiger. Piper Lion is a book written by George Plimpton when he dressed and practiced as a Detroit Lions player, and was an obvious play on the actual phrase, which I believe has ancient chinese roots or something.

[Derwood]

It's a metaphor. Insert large, carnivorous animal here.

 

That's what she said

[wolf stansson]

Tigers are way cooler anyway.

[UMFan83]

There is no value to having a higher first round pick. There are several disadvantages:

 

1. Another young player to develop/give minutes too/watch struggle

2. More money tied down past 2010

3. An extremely shallow draft so unless you get lucky on a lightly regarded prospect, the pick will bring little to the future.

 

However if we make the playoffs:

1. Entire team gains confidence

2. Rose gets playoff experience

3. Our players will have marginally higher trade values

4. Chicago because a slightly better FA destination. No one wants to sign with a lottery team that plays its games in a frigid winter city. If they come here its for the large market, to follow in Jordan's footsteps, and to play for a competitive team. Making the playoffs will slightly raise the perception of Chicago

 

Besides, basketball is supposed to be entertainment. I don't care if Brad Miller or Tim Thomas will be on the Bulls the next time we are competitive. I am going to enjoy their contribution to the team and root them on in hopes that they make the playoffs.

[David]

Hollinger's ranking system has the Bulls 11th in the NBA and 4th in the East.

 

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/powerranking

 

 

I could pretty realistically see us making it all the way to the 6th seed. Let's hope they don't have a let down here, as the schedule sets up nicely for them to really pick up steam.

 

I love the versatility with the new roster.

[wolf stansson]

1. Another young player to develop/give minutes too/watch struggle

As opposed to giving minutes to a bad old guy who can't develop and will struggle? Huh?

2. More money tied down past 2010

Cheap money. Our existing expiring contracts are already enough to hand out two max contracts. Also, shedding payroll is easy and doesn't have to be at the expense of a rookie contract. You know who tried that tactic? The Suns. Now they don't have Rudy Fernandez, Rajon Rondo and other players they could have and their future sucks. Great idea.

3. An extremely shallow draft so unless you get lucky on a lightly regarded prospect, the pick will bring little to the future.

Again, as opposed to a lightly regarded old guy who brings zero to the future.

1. Entire team gains confidence

What? So Nocioni, Hinrich, Deng, Gordon etc would be worse if we hadn't made the playoffs? No. It overvalued them to Bulls management though. All you people constantly whine about Pax and Reinsdorf loving their guys, and this is a big reason why.

2. Rose gets playoff experience

Rose gets playoff experience that means nothing because of who is coaching him and who he plays with.

3. Our players will have marginally higher trade values

Good luck proving that. Bad is bad. Good is good. Most GM's understand that already.

4. Chicago because a slightly better FA destination. No one wants to sign with a lottery team that plays its games in a frigid winter city. If they come here its for the large market, to follow in Jordan's footsteps, and to play for a competitive team. Making the playoffs will slightly raise the perception of Chicago

Huh?

 

NBA players want to play somewhere they get the most money they can. Chicago is a great city, the Bulls and Jordan's legacy (which I am dubious to your assertion that players give an s) don't change if the Bulls are an 8 seed this year. That will still be in tact. Not important, but still in tact.

[UMFan83]

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here

 

1. Another young player to develop/give minutes too/watch struggle

As opposed to giving minutes to a bad old guy who can't develop and will struggle? Huh?

 

None of these players are old or bad besides maybe Brad Miller or Tim Thomas but he's only on the team for a contract. A lot of these players could easily become role players on the next Bulls contender.

 

2. More money tied down past 2010

Cheap money. Our existing expiring contracts are already enough to hand out two max contracts. Also, shedding payroll is easy and doesn't have to be at the expense of a rookie contract. You know who tried that tactic? The Suns. Now they don't have Rudy Fernandez, Rajon Rondo and other players they could have and their future sucks. Great idea.

 

Two max deals? No. Barely one max deal. The salary cap will be shrinking the next 2 seasons, as Stern hinted last week. The Bulls won't have more than $20 mil under the cap, and that doesn't include the fact that Tyrus will be a restricted FA, and if he keeps improving he'll probably get a decent sum. Reinsdorf won't go over the luxury tax unless he's sure the move will make them legit contenders. Will Chris Bosh convince JR that the Bulls are an NBA finals team? That depends. I'm not telling the Bulls to sell their draft picks, I'm telling them to trade them. Sure we could pass on a Rudy Fernandez or Rajon Rondo, or we could be stuck paying $3 million a year for the next Thabo Sefolosha. Given Pax's draft pick history, I'm thinking its likely it will be the later.

 

3. An extremely shallow draft so unless you get lucky on a lightly regarded prospect, the pick will bring little to the future.

Again, as opposed to a lightly regarded old guy who brings zero to the future.

 

Again, we don't really have too many old players, and there is a strong possibility that some of these players could be excellent role players. You think John Salmons wouldn't be a great role player on a contender?

 

1. Entire team gains confidence

What? So Nocioni, Hinrich, Deng, Gordon etc would be worse if we hadn't made the playoffs? No. It overvalued them to Bulls management though. All you people constantly whine about Pax and Reinsdorf loving their guys, and this is a big reason why.

 

They wouldn't be worse, but they could stand to gain confidence from a playoff appearance. They obviously have issues with confidence as evidenced by Deng's sulky behavior after the Kobe trade talk and not getting his extension. Pax has changed his opinion on these players, and I doubt that he's going to hesitate to trade any of them if we make the 8th seed and get bounced in 4 games

 

2. Rose gets playoff experience

Rose gets playoff experience that means nothing because of who is coaching him and who he plays with.

 

Good luck proving that.

 

3. Our players will have marginally higher trade values

Good luck proving that. Bad is bad. Good is good. Most GM's understand that already.

And that's why role players on contenders and title winners are often described as "winners" and "character guys" that contending teams would love to have. No there's no quantifiable way to prove this, it's just an opinion.

 

4. Chicago because a slightly better FA destination. No one wants to sign with a lottery team that plays its games in a frigid winter city. If they come here its for the large market, to follow in Jordan's footsteps, and to play for a competitive team. Making the playoffs will slightly raise the perception of Chicago

Huh?

 

NBA players want to play somewhere they get the most money they can. Chicago is a great city, the Bulls and Jordan's legacy (which I am dubious to your assertion that players give an s) don't change if the Bulls are an 8 seed this year. That will still be in tact. Not important, but still in tact.

 

If that's the case, why didn't Tim Duncan or Tracy McGrady or Grant Hill come to Chicago when we were basically throwing money at them? Tim Duncan stayed in warm San Antonio for a winning nucleus and McGrady went from Toronto to Orlando, Hill from Detroit to Orlando.

 

Why did Kevin Garnett reject any trade to Boston until the Celtics acquired Ray Allen? Because he didn't want to play in a cold weathered city for a bad basketball team. Tell me how many major FAs have signed with Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Minnesota, Boston, etc. Part of that is because most big names get acquired via trades because the team that can pay them the most money is their own team. I get that. All I am doing is providing evidence that it would be more beneficial for the team to make the playoffs than get the 14th pick in the draft.

 

Plus, because I enjoy basketball, and I am a fan of the Bulls, I would feel dumb rooting for a semi decent team to lose all their games, rather then experience the fun of a playoff run. If there was a large benefit to getting a low draft pick, I'd reconsider, but I don't see it.

[wolf stansson]

I think you're getting me wrong here. I don't want them to tank and miss the playoffs purposely, I just think them making the playoffs does nothing. I could care less.

 

None of these players are old or bad besides maybe Brad Miller or Tim Thomas but he's only on the team for a contract. A lot of these players could easily become role players on the next Bulls contender.

Too many of them could become contributors, that's the problem. None of them you can build around, which is why playoffs for this team does nothing.

 

Plus, because I enjoy basketball, and I am a fan of the Bulls, I would feel dumb rooting for a semi decent team to lose all their games, rather then experience the fun of a playoff run. If there was a large benefit to getting a low draft pick, I'd reconsider, but I don't see it.

See there's our difference. I wouldn't have fun with their playoff run. Contenders are fun. Playoff filler isn't to me.

 

I see a better chance for improvement with a top 12 pick than I see with playoff experience. It's negligible, but that's just how I see it.

[David]

As a fan of basketball and of the Bulls, I would get fun out of watching any extra Bulls games, let alone playoff games. *shrug*

 

Playoff games are fun... especially if the Bulls make a run and play well down the stretch and look like they have a chance to win a few games and maybe a series.

 

I can enjoy watching my teams even if I know they don't have much, if any, chance to win a championship.

[bcl412]

The way I see it is everyone knows the Bulls have no chance. So I can enjoy watching the games with out getting too up tight. If the Bulls pull off an upset then we celebrate.