Time to be concerned again (About Z)

[jersey cubs fan]

If he isn't hurt this may be the best thing for him. keeps him humble and focus

 

Yeah, his grandmother should die more often.

 

He's got to have other old relatives.

[Soul]

Z can be so frustrating sometimes. He's a friggin' rollercoaster. Sooooo great when he's on, then sooooo maddening when he's not.

 

I just hope there's not some remaining fallout from his shoulder pain earlier. I'm for keeping him rested and on a pitch count until the playoffs. I feel more comfortable with him rested up than "being sharp" from having a full start. Especially since we saw what he can do with 12 days off.

 

Keep him rested, that's my view on it.

[BigSlick]

I wonder what his ERA is if you take out the 8 run and 9 run disasters he's had

[Guest]

I wonder what his ERA is if you take out the 8 run and 9 run disasters he's had

 

Z's ERA for the season is 3.77 and his WHIP is 1.288 Without those two outings, Z would have a 3.03 ERA and a 1.21 WHIP.

[FloppyMoose]

Hopefully Z snaps out of this next Saturday

[splintersag]

Hopefully Z snaps out of this next Saturday

 

Welcome to the forums. :hello:

[Peoriaman]

It actually looks like he has good stuff. He got squeezed some that inning.

[Amie]

It actually looks like he has good stuff. He got squeezed some that inning.

 

 

He sure did get squeezed, but he needs to stop letting that into his head. I wonder how much not having Geo behind the plate is showing up? Geo seems to handle him so well. I mean Henry knows him forever, but Geo seems to have a magic touch with Z these days.

 

That's no excuse of course, but just a thought.

[evv98]

This performance secures him as the #3 on the staff going into the playoffs. He had good stuff, but not good enough to get a strikeout or two when he needed it. The Mets fouled off some good pitches and Delgado crushed his one true mistake.

 

As far as being squeezed, I don't think he was being squeezed any worse than Perez was for the Mets. It has been said a million times before, but he will never be an elite pitcher until he learns to control his temper. Tonight was a perfect example.

 

While I am concerned about his mental status right now, I would have been much more concerned if he had come out with reduced velocity or below average stuff. He appears healthy right now and is certainly capable of throwing a great game if he is right in the head.

[UMFan83]

Will Carrol on Z's arm slot yesterday:

 

Carlos Zambrano (0 DXL)

In the first inning, Zambrano looked about as I expected: better than his last outing, worse than his no-hitter stuff. I was watching his arm slot, and while normally this isn't that important to me where most pitchers are concerned, for Zambrano it's the external sign of how his shoulder is feeling. When the cuff is inflamed, he drops down and has to sling the ball to get a few extra mph on it. Pitching to Jose Reyes, he was in the lowest of the good slots, but he consciously dropped down slightly to get the ball past Daniel Murphy. By the time he faced David Wright in the fifth, he was forced to again drop down just to get above 90. Sadly, this is what is expected in this scenario, and it puts Zambrano's effectiveness for the playoffs into question. While he will be available, the Cubs have hinted that he'll not be making the first start in the NLDS that he expects to. What the Cubs can expect from him next week isn't much better than what they got from him on Wednesday.

[inari]

This is the absolute worst possible time for Z's overuse to catch up to him.

[Wheelimus]

Sigh, if Carrol is right then it's really dumb to pitch Z again before the playoffs. Just rest him.

[inari]

Sigh, if Carrol is right then it's really dumb to pitch Z again before the playoffs. Just rest him.

 

This was going to be his last start anyway.

[anabiono]

Z will have 9 days rest right?

 

surely he will be better by then

[Blue W]

Not to excuse Z's performance, but when there are 15-plus walks in a game, the umpire should get some scrutiny. The strike zone was miniscule last night and there was no outside corner or low strike being called. Again, Z should keep his cool - but he looked ok other than the walks (tight k-zone induced) and the GS (Z headcase induced). I still don't want him starting Game 1 - he could kill a fan in the 30th row with his first pitch!

[anabiono]

Not to excuse Z's performance, but when there are 15-plus walks in a game, the umpire should get some scrutiny. The strike zone was miniscule last night and there was no outside corner or low strike being called. Again, Z should keep his cool - but he looked ok other than the walks (tight k-zone induced) and the GS (Z headcase induced). I still don't want him starting Game 1 - he could kill a fan in the 30th row with his first pitch!

 

meh, did you watch him pitch in the NLDS last year...Z will be solid in the playoffs

 

i still really don't care if he starts game one, although that probably won't be happening now

[SouthSideRyan]

As far as being squeezed, I don't think he was being squeezed any worse than Perez was for the Mets. It has been said a million times before, but he will never be an elite pitcher until he learns to control his temper. Tonight was a perfect example.

 

Elite pitcher equals what exactly? I love that you have to be 1995 Greg Maddux to be an elite pitcher. I also love that every bad game Zambrano has is because he's a headcase or he's injured. People have this image that old timey sportswriters have ingrained in their head that everything's mental and since Z shows emotion, that means he's a headcase who lets every ball called on him get in his head until he gives up a bunch of runs.

 

It's never that Z misses his spot. It's never that the batter just got the better of him. It's that crazy forienger who can't handle any pressure. He's a meltdown waiting to happen I tellz ya! Like yesterday walks the bases loaded, gives up the grand slam, and then the floodgates came down. He lost his mind out there after giving up the grand slam and had to be straight-jacketed and cattle prodded to get him off the field.

[SouthSideRyan]

I mean honestly, people must think Zambrano is the the most talented pitcher of all time if he can't help but have meltdowns every other week and still has #s like an ace. All we need is to get Z some ritalin and he'll never give up a run!

[UMFan83]

So you think that Z's inconsistent performance is because he's just not a good pitcher? Does any other pitcher appear more visibly rattled than Z when things aren't going well?

 

I think people expect the world out of Z because he has proven that he's damn good. He had a sub-3 ERA in 2004, and some other really good seasons. In early August, he had a sub-3.00 ERA. Of course I am assuming a lot of his bad performances is the fact that his shoulder is hurting him and he's trying to pitch through it (which would explain his arm angle dropping), but you are almost calling fans racist and telling them to tip their cap to the hitter, because they are trying to explain why such a talented pitcher goes through such inconsistent periods.

[David]

So you think that Z's inconsistent performance is because he's just not a good pitcher? Does any other pitcher appear more visibly rattled than Z when things aren't going well?

 

I think people expect the world out of Z because he has proven that he's damn good. He had a sub-3 ERA in 2004, and some other really good seasons. In early August, he had a sub-3.00 ERA. Of course I am assuming a lot of his bad performances is the fact that his shoulder is hurting him and he's trying to pitch through it (which would explain his arm angle dropping), but you are almost calling fans racist and telling them to tip their cap to the hitter, because they are trying to explain why such a talented pitcher goes through such inconsistent periods.

 

He appears to think that Z is a very good pitcher and sometimes very good pitchers pitch poorly and it has little if anything to do with his temperament.

 

Like he said, his overall numbers are always very good and people still say that, "He'll never be great until" stuff...

 

Me, I've always been kind of meh on Z. I recognize that he's a great pitcher and he's extremely valuable to our team (and for that, I appreciate him), but I'm not personally a huge fan of his because he's pretty much a jerk and his tendency to get wild frustrates me.

[jersey cubs fan]

As far as being squeezed, I don't think he was being squeezed any worse than Perez was for the Mets. It has been said a million times before, but he will never be an elite pitcher until he learns to control his temper. Tonight was a perfect example.

 

Elite pitcher equals what exactly? I love that you have to be 1995 Greg Maddux to be an elite pitcher. I also love that every bad game Zambrano has is because he's a headcase or he's injured. People have this image that old timey sportswriters have ingrained in their head that everything's mental and since Z shows emotion, that means he's a headcase who lets every ball called on him get in his head until he gives up a bunch of runs.

 

It's never that Z misses his spot. It's never that the batter just got the better of him. It's that crazy forienger who can't handle any pressure. He's a meltdown waiting to happen I tellz ya! Like yesterday walks the bases loaded, gives up the grand slam, and then the floodgates came down. He lost his mind out there after giving up the grand slam and had to be straight-jacketed and cattle prodded to get him off the field.

 

So you don't think Z's mental state has hurt him at times and that he's never struggled due to health reasons?

[SouthSideRyan]

Becuase players go through inconsistent periods. Don't you think it's lunacy when the usual band of hacks come around when Ramirez went through his slumps this year?

 

Wouldn't somebody who's a headcase melt down in game 1 of the playoffs last year? Wouldn't a headcase break out in seizures in the 9th inning of a no-hit bid? Wouldn't a head case have an excessive amount of unearned runs allowed?

 

Z is emotional and gets upset on the mound. I've posited that he's most likely a jagoff. None of this means it affects his pitching. I believe we went through this before a year or 2 ago, where the #s showed Z didn't have any more meltdown innings than the average pitcher. He's a very good pitcher, and like most very good pitchers he has bad stretches. People are so desperate to find some meaning behind hot streaks and cold streaks that they attribute it to the easiest observed trait of Z's and that's his emotional style.

[SouthSideRyan]

As far as being squeezed, I don't think he was being squeezed any worse than Perez was for the Mets. It has been said a million times before, but he will never be an elite pitcher until he learns to control his temper. Tonight was a perfect example.

 

Elite pitcher equals what exactly? I love that you have to be 1995 Greg Maddux to be an elite pitcher. I also love that every bad game Zambrano has is because he's a headcase or he's injured. People have this image that old timey sportswriters have ingrained in their head that everything's mental and since Z shows emotion, that means he's a headcase who lets every ball called on him get in his head until he gives up a bunch of runs.

 

It's never that Z misses his spot. It's never that the batter just got the better of him. It's that crazy forienger who can't handle any pressure. He's a meltdown waiting to happen I tellz ya! Like yesterday walks the bases loaded, gives up the grand slam, and then the floodgates came down. He lost his mind out there after giving up the grand slam and had to be straight-jacketed and cattle prodded to get him off the field.

 

So you don't think Z's mental state has hurt him at times and that he's never struggled due to health reasons?

 

Of course he's struggled at times due to tired arm/minor pains as has most every pitcher. My issue with the injury complaints is that once he has a bad game, people think he's hurt for good.

 

I'm sure at times he's overthought on the mound as well, but again he's no different than others.

[UMFan83]

One thing I also wonder as well.... game 3 is on Saturday, which is 10 days away....

 

Assuming his shoulder is really bothering him, and thats why he's been dropping his arm angles down again, is it possible to give him another cortisone shot and have him ready for game 3? I really feel like the Cubs rushed him back too early from his shoulder tendonitis, and the reason he was so successful in the no hitter is because of that cortisone. But then again, please tear me apart if I'm wrong, because I admittedly don't know much about how a cortisone shot works. I was under the belief that it is an anti-inflammatory and 'numbs' the injury causing the pain to go away.

 

Anyways, can he conceivably get a cortisone, and still have time to throw a side and be prepared for his playoff start?

[jyoung55]

So you think that Z's inconsistent performance is because he's just not a good pitcher? Does any other pitcher appear more visibly rattled than Z when things aren't going well?

 

Anyone else have pictures of Ted Lilly dancing in their heads?