Ned Yost Fired (Merged)

[Soul]

I bet the Brewers get a bump from this. Ned was really a terrible in-game manager. It's gotta be better just based on that alone.

[Ball And Glove]

Dale Sveum isn't going to magically cure the Brewers' hitting woes, but at least the Brewers won't have him coaching third anymore.

 

If I'm a Cubs fan, I hope the Brewers find a way into the playoffs, virtually ensuring that this guy is the manager to start next season:

 

http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/pressbox/photos/headshots_players_coaches/123011_90x135.jpg

 

He looks like the dumb brother from "My Name is Earl".

[dew1679666265]

Dream scenario:

 

Walt Jocketty fires Dusty Baker.

 

Doug Melvin hires Dusty Baker.

 

Cardinals fire Tony La Russa.

 

Cardinals hire Ned Yost.

 

That's about the only thing I'd change to truly make it a dream scenario. :D

Actually, I'd like to see Yost go to Cincy to replace Dusty. Cincy's talent worries me more in the coming years than the Cardinals, so let's keep a bad manager there to ruin it.

 

This is an excellent suggestion. I hate the Cardinals more, but the Reds do have more young talent for Yost to corrupt.

 

Cincy's had a lot of "young talent" for the past 52 years and we're all supposed to be worried when they finally get it together. Every year. Since 1841.

 

I don't know, those 1882 Red Stockings were pretty awesome with their young talent.

 

Pop Snyder was quite a manager for that team and even doubled as their catcher as they won 55 of their 80 games with an average age of 25-26. :wink:

[Cubs08]

Dave Duncan=2009 Brewers manager?

[Gmoney08]

Well now the trick is on us! We have just been Yosted.. its unfortunate we may not be facing a Yost coached team in the division next year.

 

To be fair I think the Brewers are going to hover around .500 or worse next year no matter who there manager is so hopefully Nedly will just move on and ruin the Cardinals, or Astros while Dusty holds the reins in Cincy...

[Guest]

joe sheehan has a nice article about how last night was a great example of how awful yost has been.

 

Yost elected to walk Howard to face Pat Burrell. This was... well, it strains my vocabulary to find the right word for it. Howard cannot hit left-handers, and would be a platoon player if performance mattered anywhere near as much as reputation does. Or if he had a competent manager. Howard is at .228/.313/.458 against lefties in his career, .212/.287/.410 this year. Howard. Can't. Hit. Lefties. Shouse, on the other hand, is in the major leagues for exactly one reason: lefties can't hit him, to the tune of .175/.192/.289 this year, and .211/.263/.325 for his career, which includes a bunch of years when he was barely a major leaguer. Manuel sending Howard up against Shouse was a continuation of a theme for the Phillies: not hitting for Howard when he has little chance of doing something good. He was giving Yost an out, and Yost gave it right back.

 

That set up Shouse versus Pat Burrell, which cried out for a right-handed reliever. After all, Shouse is a pure specialist (.307/.390/.455 vs. RHB career; .293/.371/.446 this year). The only way walking Howard even might make sense is if Yost were to bring in a righty to try and get a double play out of Burrell. Burrell doesn't have the big platoon splits he showed earlier in his career—he's a dangerous hitter against both kinds of hurlers—but leaving Shouse in to face him was asking for trouble.

 

Think about this for a second. Yost had a 481 OPS pitcher facing a 697 OPS hitter. He elected to issue an intentional walk in that situation to allow an 817 OPS pitcher to face a 905 OPS hitter with an additional runner on base. That's when you start looking around the roof of the stadium for snipers, because gunpoint is the only place where that kind of decision makes sense.

 

i had to read this a couple of times to make sure i wasn't missing something. i didn't think anyone, let alone a major league manager, could be stupid enough to IBB a lefty batter against a lefty specialist so that the lefty specialist can face a RH batter who hammers lefties.

 

It almost seems like Yost just didn't care anymore. Either that or he's literally [expletive].

 

Or maybe it's both.

[Jehrico]

Dream scenario:

 

Walt Jocketty fires Dusty Baker.

 

Doug Melvin hires Dusty Baker.

 

Cardinals fire Tony La Russa.

 

Cardinals hire Ned Yost.

 

That's about the only thing I'd change to truly make it a dream scenario. :D

Actually, I'd like to see Yost go to Cincy to replace Dusty. Cincy's talent worries me more in the coming years than the Cardinals, so let's keep a bad manager there to ruin it.

 

This is an excellent suggestion. I hate the Cardinals more, but the Reds do have more young talent for Yost to corrupt.

 

Cincy's had a lot of "young talent" for the past 52 years and we're all supposed to be worried when they finally get it together. Every year. Since 1841.

You don't think they actually do have a very good core of young players that could make a really good team if the GM fills in the gaps right? Remember, Jocketty is their GM now, he's proven he can do that.

[biittner77]

The Reds are in the same sort of situation that the Orioles are in. Every year going in the Yankees and Red Sox are going to be good. Now the Rays look like they have a team that will be in the middle of things for a while. The O's have a good young nucleus but lack the pitching to compete in a very competitive division.

 

The Cards and Astros are usually pretty good. The Cubs- if the new owner will spend moeny should also be good. Milwaukee has a good young nucleus. So every year it will be a struggle for the Reds. Their home ballpark is going to be tough on their pitching staff.

[SouthSideRyan]

Cincy's had a lot of "young talent" for the past 52 years and we're all supposed to be worried when they finally get it together. Every year. Since 1841.

You don't think they actually do have a very good core of young players that could make a really good team if the GM fills in the gaps right? Remember, Jocketty is their GM now, he's proven he can do that.

 

I do not. This season for Cinci is seriously a carbon copy of the past 5 seasons for them. They're a bad baseball team.

[Mugged By Fluffy]

joe sheehan has a nice article about how last night was a great example of how awful yost has been.

 

Yost elected to walk Howard to face Pat Burrell. This was... well, it strains my vocabulary to find the right word for it. Howard cannot hit left-handers, and would be a platoon player if performance mattered anywhere near as much as reputation does. Or if he had a competent manager. Howard is at .228/.313/.458 against lefties in his career, .212/.287/.410 this year. Howard. Can't. Hit. Lefties. Shouse, on the other hand, is in the major leagues for exactly one reason: lefties can't hit him, to the tune of .175/.192/.289 this year, and .211/.263/.325 for his career, which includes a bunch of years when he was barely a major leaguer. Manuel sending Howard up against Shouse was a continuation of a theme for the Phillies: not hitting for Howard when he has little chance of doing something good. He was giving Yost an out, and Yost gave it right back.

 

That set up Shouse versus Pat Burrell, which cried out for a right-handed reliever. After all, Shouse is a pure specialist (.307/.390/.455 vs. RHB career; .293/.371/.446 this year). The only way walking Howard even might make sense is if Yost were to bring in a righty to try and get a double play out of Burrell. Burrell doesn't have the big platoon splits he showed earlier in his career—he's a dangerous hitter against both kinds of hurlers—but leaving Shouse in to face him was asking for trouble.

 

Think about this for a second. Yost had a 481 OPS pitcher facing a 697 OPS hitter. He elected to issue an intentional walk in that situation to allow an 817 OPS pitcher to face a 905 OPS hitter with an additional runner on base. That's when you start looking around the roof of the stadium for snipers, because gunpoint is the only place where that kind of decision makes sense.

 

i had to read this a couple of times to make sure i wasn't missing something. i didn't think anyone, let alone a major league manager, could be stupid enough to IBB a lefty batter against a lefty specialist so that the lefty specialist can face a RH batter who hammers lefties.

 

It almost seems like Yost just didn't care anymore. Either that or he's literally [expletive].

 

Or maybe it's both.

 

This was so far out there and sounded so ridiculous I had to look into it a bit more.

 

In fairness to Yost(I can't believe I just said that), Burrell batted .181 in August and he's batting .194 in September. His OBP is under .300 since July. Conversely, Howard is batting .354 in September with a .917 slugging percentage and has been spraying the balls to all parts of the field against both RHP and LHP . So you can see why he would rather face Burrell than the hot hitting Ryan Howard.

 

The choice here was between career numbers versus recent numbers. Yost went with the recent numbers and it didn't work this time.

 

Still. This doesn't take into account the studlines of Shouse against LHP.

[UMFan83]

The Reds are in the same sort of situation that the Orioles are in. Every year going in the Yankees and Red Sox are going to be good. Now the Rays look like they have a team that will be in the middle of things for a while. The O's have a good young nucleus but lack the pitching to compete in a very competitive division.

 

The Cards and Astros are usually pretty good. The Cubs- if the new owner will spend moeny should also be good. Milwaukee has a good young nucleus. So every year it will be a struggle for the Reds. Their home ballpark is going to be tough on their pitching staff.

 

I see your connection that you made, but come on. The Central division has been won by an 82 win team and an 85 win team the last 2 years. Even a mediocre season with a few breaks could have gotten the Reds into the playoffs the last few years. That means that unless the Brewers get their heads out of their butts and win 7 of their remaining 12 games, there will be a grand total of one 90 win team over the course of the last 3 seasons in the Central.

Edited September 16, 2008 by UMFan83

[dew1679666265]

joe sheehan has a nice article about how last night was a great example of how awful yost has been.

 

Yost elected to walk Howard to face Pat Burrell. This was... well, it strains my vocabulary to find the right word for it. Howard cannot hit left-handers, and would be a platoon player if performance mattered anywhere near as much as reputation does. Or if he had a competent manager. Howard is at .228/.313/.458 against lefties in his career, .212/.287/.410 this year. Howard. Can't. Hit. Lefties. Shouse, on the other hand, is in the major leagues for exactly one reason: lefties can't hit him, to the tune of .175/.192/.289 this year, and .211/.263/.325 for his career, which includes a bunch of years when he was barely a major leaguer. Manuel sending Howard up against Shouse was a continuation of a theme for the Phillies: not hitting for Howard when he has little chance of doing something good. He was giving Yost an out, and Yost gave it right back.

 

That set up Shouse versus Pat Burrell, which cried out for a right-handed reliever. After all, Shouse is a pure specialist (.307/.390/.455 vs. RHB career; .293/.371/.446 this year). The only way walking Howard even might make sense is if Yost were to bring in a righty to try and get a double play out of Burrell. Burrell doesn't have the big platoon splits he showed earlier in his career—he's a dangerous hitter against both kinds of hurlers—but leaving Shouse in to face him was asking for trouble.

 

Think about this for a second. Yost had a 481 OPS pitcher facing a 697 OPS hitter. He elected to issue an intentional walk in that situation to allow an 817 OPS pitcher to face a 905 OPS hitter with an additional runner on base. That's when you start looking around the roof of the stadium for snipers, because gunpoint is the only place where that kind of decision makes sense.

 

i had to read this a couple of times to make sure i wasn't missing something. i didn't think anyone, let alone a major league manager, could be stupid enough to IBB a lefty batter against a lefty specialist so that the lefty specialist can face a RH batter who hammers lefties.

 

It almost seems like Yost just didn't care anymore. Either that or he's literally [expletive].

 

Or maybe it's both.

 

This was so far out there and sounded so ridiculous I had to look into it a bit more.

 

In fairness to Yost(I can't believe I just said that), Burrell batted .181 in August and he's batting .194 in September. His OBP is under .300 since July. Conversely, Howard is batting .354 in September with a .917 slugging percentage and has been spraying the balls to all parts of the field against both RHP and LHP . So you can see why he would rather face Burrell than the hot hitting Ryan Howard.

 

The choice here was between career numbers versus recent numbers. Yost went with the recent numbers and it didn't work this time.

 

Still. This doesn't take into account the studlines of Shouse against LHP.

 

That's far and away the most egregious part of it. It's a pretty stupid move either way, but it's at least understandable with the recent numbers and if he had a righty (or lefty without extreme splits) on the mound.

 

Given that he had a pitcher who specializes in getting lefties out, it's senseless to walk any left to get to a righty.

[Soul]

joe sheehan has a nice article about how last night was a great example of how awful yost has been.

 

Yost elected to walk Howard to face Pat Burrell. This was... well, it strains my vocabulary to find the right word for it. Howard cannot hit left-handers, and would be a platoon player if performance mattered anywhere near as much as reputation does. Or if he had a competent manager. Howard is at .228/.313/.458 against lefties in his career, .212/.287/.410 this year. Howard. Can't. Hit. Lefties. Shouse, on the other hand, is in the major leagues for exactly one reason: lefties can't hit him, to the tune of .175/.192/.289 this year, and .211/.263/.325 for his career, which includes a bunch of years when he was barely a major leaguer. Manuel sending Howard up against Shouse was a continuation of a theme for the Phillies: not hitting for Howard when he has little chance of doing something good. He was giving Yost an out, and Yost gave it right back.

 

That set up Shouse versus Pat Burrell, which cried out for a right-handed reliever. After all, Shouse is a pure specialist (.307/.390/.455 vs. RHB career; .293/.371/.446 this year). The only way walking Howard even might make sense is if Yost were to bring in a righty to try and get a double play out of Burrell. Burrell doesn't have the big platoon splits he showed earlier in his career—he's a dangerous hitter against both kinds of hurlers—but leaving Shouse in to face him was asking for trouble.

 

Think about this for a second. Yost had a 481 OPS pitcher facing a 697 OPS hitter. He elected to issue an intentional walk in that situation to allow an 817 OPS pitcher to face a 905 OPS hitter with an additional runner on base. That's when you start looking around the roof of the stadium for snipers, because gunpoint is the only place where that kind of decision makes sense.

 

i had to read this a couple of times to make sure i wasn't missing something. i didn't think anyone, let alone a major league manager, could be stupid enough to IBB a lefty batter against a lefty specialist so that the lefty specialist can face a RH batter who hammers lefties.

 

It almost seems like Yost just didn't care anymore. Either that or he's literally [expletive].

 

Or maybe it's both.

 

This was so far out there and sounded so ridiculous I had to look into it a bit more.

 

In fairness to Yost(I can't believe I just said that), Burrell batted .181 in August and he's batting .194 in September. His OBP is under .300 since July. Conversely, Howard is batting .354 in September with a .917 slugging percentage and has been spraying the balls to all parts of the field against both RHP and LHP . So you can see why he would rather face Burrell than the hot hitting Ryan Howard.

 

The choice here was between career numbers versus recent numbers. Yost went with the recent numbers and it didn't work this time.

 

Still. This doesn't take into account the studlines of Shouse against LHP.

 

That's far and away the most egregious part of it. It's a pretty stupid move either way, but it's at least understandable with the recent numbers and if he had a righty (or lefty without extreme splits) on the mound.

 

Given that he had a pitcher who specializes in getting lefties out, it's senseless to walk any left to get to a righty.

I wonder if he said "to hell with it" and gave up.

 

I heard Melvin had called him in at one point and asked Ned what he thought the problem was, and Ned said "I don't know. I really don't know." That's the talk around here anyway -- that when Ned had that conversation with Melvin, they both realized it was over.

[biittner77]

I see your connection that you made, but come on. The Central division has been won by an 82 win team and an 85 win team the last 2 years. Even a mediocre season with a few breaks could have gotten the Reds into the playoffs the last few years. That means that unless the Brewers get their heads out of their butts and win 7 of their remaining 12 games, there will be a grand total of one 90 win team over the course of the last 3 seasons in the Central.

 

I never said it would be impossible- the Rays have proven that. The Reds are in that awkward position that they are bad enough to not be a threat but not bad enough to get a top 5 pick.

 

Let's see what Jockety can do there.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

He looks like the dumb brother from "My Name is Earl".

Randy's much better looking

[TruffleShuffle]

What a weird time to fire a manager.

 

Not really. How many times to you hear about a manger being fired, and then the team goes on a nice little hot streak for the new manager? Thats exactly what the Brewers need right now.

 

Willie Randolph anybody?

 

What if 2 teams in the NL playoffs have different managers than they started with?

Willie Randolph didn't get fired with 12 games left in the season. Does anybody know what the latest in the season a manager has been fired is?

It happens in hockey from time to time.

 

i think the weirdest manager firing i ever saw was when lou lamoriello (nj devils gm) fired claude julien with 3 games left in the regular season and installed himself as coach. this happened when the devils had the second-best record in the eastern conference and set a franchise record for wins. frankly i thought julien did a really good job with that team, but lamoriello said he didn't think julien had them ready to win in the playoffs.

[TruffleShuffle]

I don't know, those 1882 Red Stockings were pretty awesome with their young talent.

 

they're a little thin when it comes to pitching, and frankly, i'm a little worried about will white's arm after tossing 480 innings and 52 complete games.

[SouthSideRyan]

I wonder if he said "to hell with it" and gave up.

 

I heard Melvin had called him in at one point and asked Ned what he thought the problem was, and Ned said "I don't know. I really don't know." That's the talk around here anyway -- that when Ned had that conversation with Melvin, they both realized it was over.

 

My speculation is that I think Melvin went to him at the order of Attanasio after Melvin fought to not fire Yost. Attanasio asked for an answer as to why things were failing again, and if Yost could give him an adequate answer he'd stay on. In standard Yost fashion he stood there with his dopey grin on his face and got fired when Attanasio wasn't happy with the response "I don't know."

[biittner77]

I wonder if he said "to hell with it" and gave up.

 

I heard Melvin had called him in at one point and asked Ned what he thought the problem was, and Ned said "I don't know. I really don't know." That's the talk around here anyway -- that when Ned had that conversation with Melvin, they both realized it was over.

 

My speculation is that I think Melvin went to him at the order of Attanasio after Melvin fought to not fire Yost. Attanasio asked for an answer as to why things were failing again, and if Yost could give him an adequate answer he'd stay on. In standard Yost fashion he stood there with his dopey grin on his face and got fired when Attanasio wasn't happy with the response "I don't know."

 

If that really is the case then they are even dumber than Yost. What is he supposed to say? What should he try that he hasn't already done? How does he keep his starters not named Sabathia and Sheets from being terrible?

[Jehrico]

Cincy's had a lot of "young talent" for the past 52 years and we're all supposed to be worried when they finally get it together. Every year. Since 1841.

You don't think they actually do have a very good core of young players that could make a really good team if the GM fills in the gaps right? Remember, Jocketty is their GM now, he's proven he can do that.

 

I do not. This season for Cinci is seriously a carbon copy of the past 5 seasons for them. They're a bad baseball team.

This season isn't even close to a carbon copy of the last 5 seasons. They've never had a core of pitching prospects emerging at the same time like Volquez, Cueto, and Baily (like any young team trying to emerge, they need at least two young guys coming up to anchor a rotation if they're not a big-market team...so either Cueto or Baily need to step up with Volquez), and they've never had great hitting prospects like Bruce or Votto. Those guys are significantly better than the Norris Hoppers/Felipe Lopezs/etc of the past several years. They also didn't have Jocketty the last four years, or even this last offseason. I can understand if you just don't think the current talent is going to take the next step forward, especially with Dusty corrupting them at a critical time in their development, but to say that this year's crop (and GM) is a carbon copy of the last 5 years for Cincinatti is just 100% wrong.

[XZero771679666304]

Cincy's had a lot of "young talent" for the past 52 years and we're all supposed to be worried when they finally get it together. Every year. Since 1841.

You don't think they actually do have a very good core of young players that could make a really good team if the GM fills in the gaps right? Remember, Jocketty is their GM now, he's proven he can do that.

 

I do not. This season for Cinci is seriously a carbon copy of the past 5 seasons for them. They're a bad baseball team.

This season isn't even close to a carbon copy of the last 5 seasons. They've never had a core of pitching prospects emerging at the same time like Volquez, Cueto, and Baily (like any young team trying to emerge, they need at least two young guys coming up to anchor a rotation if they're not a big-market team...so either Cueto or Baily need to step up with Volquez), and they've never had great hitting prospects like Bruce or Votto. Those guys are significantly better than the Norris Hoppers/Felipe Lopezs/etc of the past several years. They also didn't have Jocketty the last four years, or even this last offseason. I can understand if you just don't think the current talent is going to take the next step forward, especially with Dusty corrupting them at a critical time in their development, but to say that this year's crop (and GM) is a carbon copy of the last 5 years for Cincinatti is just 100% wrong.

 

 

The net results are pretty much a carbon copy.

 

 

And they have had great hitting prospects like Bruce and Votto, and they were Kearns and Dunn (In case you had forgotten, BIG things were expected from Kearns). Volquez is a bright spot, but Cueto came out of nowhere, and may never amount to anything more than 3-5 starter. Bailey looks increasingly like he'll never approach what was projected for him. And what happened to Aaron Harang?

 

Dunn is gone, Griffey is gone, Dusty is the manager.

 

 

So what we have is another poor, disappointing season with marginal to little hope for improvement the next. Two steps forward, two steps back. More of the same.

[Jehrico]

Cincy's had a lot of "young talent" for the past 52 years and we're all supposed to be worried when they finally get it together. Every year. Since 1841.

You don't think they actually do have a very good core of young players that could make a really good team if the GM fills in the gaps right? Remember, Jocketty is their GM now, he's proven he can do that.

 

I do not. This season for Cinci is seriously a carbon copy of the past 5 seasons for them. They're a bad baseball team.

This season isn't even close to a carbon copy of the last 5 seasons. They've never had a core of pitching prospects emerging at the same time like Volquez, Cueto, and Baily (like any young team trying to emerge, they need at least two young guys coming up to anchor a rotation if they're not a big-market team...so either Cueto or Baily need to step up with Volquez), and they've never had great hitting prospects like Bruce or Votto. Those guys are significantly better than the Norris Hoppers/Felipe Lopezs/etc of the past several years. They also didn't have Jocketty the last four years, or even this last offseason. I can understand if you just don't think the current talent is going to take the next step forward, especially with Dusty corrupting them at a critical time in their development, but to say that this year's crop (and GM) is a carbon copy of the last 5 years for Cincinatti is just 100% wrong.

 

 

The net results are pretty much a carbon copy.

 

 

And they have had great hitting prospects like Bruce and Votto, and they were Kearns and Dunn (In case you had forgotten, BIG things were expected from Kearns). Volquez is a bright spot, but Cueto came out of nowhere, and may never amount to anything more than 3-5 starter. Bailey looks increasingly like he'll never approach what was projected for him. And what happened to Aaron Harang?

 

Dunn is gone, Griffey is gone, Dusty is the manager.

 

 

So what we have is another poor, disappointing season with marginal to little hope for improvement the next. Two steps forward, two steps back. More of the same.

Net results this year are the same, but this wasn't about this year. Kearns lost his prospect status quite awhile ago, and they never had the pitching prospects to go with those two hitters (Harang? Never a top-notch prospect).

[jersey cubs fan]

I would say it's not a carbon copy Reds team, but there are plenty of similarities to raise doubts about their future. They've got a couple good young players, but they are hardly poised for great things.

[UMFan83]

I would say it's not a carbon copy Reds team, but there are plenty of similarities to raise doubts about their future. They've got a couple good young players, but they are hardly poised for great things.

 

Do they have the resources to go after FA's? I figured if they hired Dusty as manager they would be proactive in trying to go out and get some veteran talent to mix with the youngsters.

[XZero771679666304]

Net results this year are the same, but this wasn't about this year. Kearns lost his prospect status quite awhile ago, and they never had the pitching prospects to go with those two hitters (Harang? Never a top-notch prospect).

 

What makes you think next year is going to be any different? Let's be honest here, few of us heard of Johnny Cueto before ST, and it looks like the early season flashes were just that - flashes. No one saw Edinson Volquez coming (or at least being nearly as good as he has been), but Homer Bailey is closing in on bust status.

 

And you said the Reds hadn't had big hitting prospects in recent years, but the Kearns/Dunn hype isn't that far in the past. Kearns wasn't projected as high as Bruce, but Votto isn't going to be Dunn, that's for sure.

 

If you look at the whole, there not much more cause for optimism going from 2008 to 2009 than there was going into 2006 or 2007. You seem to be insinuating that this year was the foundation for some sort of renaissance for the Reds. I don't think that's the case at all.