Does CLiff Lee prove that there is hope for Rich Hill?

[Little Slide Rooter]

2005-18 game winne

2006-slowed up a bit

2007-lost the strike zone, spent a big chunk of the year in the minors

2008-20 game winner-on a sub .500 team, sub 3.00 ERA, 1 of a 2 man race for AL CY Young with K Rod

 

Granted, Rich Hill hasnt been around as long,and hasnt had rthe success that Lee already has, but its proof that you can turn things around despite a lost season.

[UMFan83]

Yup but for every Cliff Lee, there is probably 10 people who are never heard from again.

[Outshined_One]

I'm curious as to what would have happened to this team had Rich Hill repeated his performance last year. I'd like to think Hendry still would have gone out and gotten Harden, but it would have created an interesting logjam in the rotation.

 

You'd like to think that Hendry would have opened a window and helped Marquis out in that scenario, but I've seen stranger things happen with this team.

[DiamondMind]

No

[Jehrico]

Yup but for every Cliff Lee, there is probably 10 people who are never heard from again.

I would think the number's closer to 100, maybe 1000.

[abuck1220]

there have been 1,000 pitchers who were among the top pitchers in the league at age 27 and were never heard from again?

[27up27down]

there have been 1,000 pitchers who were among the top pitchers in the league at age 27 and were never heard from again?

Rich Hill was a solid middle-of-the-rotation starter but I'm not sure I'd call him a full-fledged #2, let alone among the best.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

there have been 1,000 pitchers who were among the top pitchers in the league at age 27 and were never heard from again?

Rich Hill was a solid middle-of-the-rotation starter but I'm not sure I'd call him a full-fledged #2, let alone among the best.

you're not giving him nearly enough credit for the season he had last year

[27up27down]

you're not giving him nearly enough credit for the season he had last year

The guy had a great WHIP and K/BB rate, but his ERA was only good enough for 18th in the NL. Tom Gorzelanny was 16th. Is he in the discussion as well? I'm taking nothing away from Rich. I just think you gotta see a little more from him before he's one of the best.

[sneakypower]

43rd best FIP in baseball *amongst qualified starters* doesn't really scream 'elite pitcher' to me

 

that's what, ok #2, good #3? sounds about right

[Peoriaman]

Cleveland tried trading Lee in the off-season and found very little interest.

[haltz]

There haven't even been 1,000 full seasons by 27 yo SPs. 204 with a 115 ERA+ or better in 162 innings. 127 since 1956. Anyway, I don't know what is or isn't hyperbole here, but I'm having a hard time finding many that didn't go on to have at least one more above-average season. Larry Dierker's one and so is Mark Mulder.

[IForgotMyUsername]

Rich Hill was a solid middle-of-the-rotation starter but I'm not sure I'd call him a full-fledged #2, let alone among the best.

 

 

 

Apparently, not so solid, either.

[CoolHandLuke]

Rich Hill was a solid middle-of-the-rotation starter but I'm not sure I'd call him a full-fledged #2, let alone among the best.

 

 

 

Apparently, not so solid, either.

 

I wonder if this mis-quote was intentional or a hilarious accident.

[nilodnayr]

43rd best FIP in baseball *amongst qualified starters* doesn't really scream 'elite pitcher' to me

 

that's what, ok #2, good #3? sounds about right

 

 

Hmm, lets see, 43rd best FIP, 30 teams, so according to my math, that would put him in the top half of #2s.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

31st in MLB in Runs Created, 34th in VORP

[sneakypower]

your math is forgetting better pitchers who didn't qualify. there were only 80 pitchers in baseball who pitched enough innings to qualify for ERA title. where does that leave him, 43/80? or are we just assuming every pitcher left is awful and wouldn't possibly post higher FIPs to bump him further down the rankings?

 

so if you loosen the innings constraints to 130 he becomes the owner of the 52nd best FIP in the league, out of 112. that may be a bit unfair, but my entire stance was i don't know that there's any way you can slice it where he was "among the top pitchers in the league". unless of course you're looking into his numbers with obvious tunnel vision.