It's time to expand

[RedFlash]

I don't mind another 2 team expansion, but I definately don't want a NBA's "Vancouver esque" debacle in that I don't a new team having to relocate because of a fan attendance problem after a short stin in their original city. If MLB does decide to expand they better be sure then the two markets they would expand to would support those teams. Personally, as it was mentioned already but a team in Portland would definately work. It would give Seattle a natural rival and balances out the AL West. If not a new expansion team, the Marlins moving to Portland should work in terms of evening out the leagues and giving the Marlins a fresh start. It doesn't hurt to get the Marlins out of the NL forever. .

 

But the problem with expansion (unless you expand 6 teams) is that if you have 2 new teams, that brings up the MLB Franchise total to 32 teams. Meaning there would be 2 division with 6 and 4 divisions of 5 team (and you just know the NL Central would be one of the division with 6 teams). So how is it fair to the 2 divisions with 6 teams when the other 4 division only have 5?

[CubFanBudMan68]

I would go with new teams in Las Vegas and Charlotte (and if the league is afraid of gambling and LV) then Portland or San Antonio perhaps.

 

Then go to a NFL type divisional alignment, 4 team divisions, 25 games against teams in your division, 6 against non division within the league and rotating intra-league games 3 games, and one intra-league "rival" series, 3 games.

[jersey cubs fan]

.

 

But the problem with expansion (unless you expand 6 teams) is that if you have 2 new teams, that brings up the MLB Franchise total to 32 teams. Meaning there would be 2 division with 6 and 4 divisions of 5 team (and you just know the NL Central would be one of the division with 6 teams). So how is it fair to the 2 divisions with 6 teams when the other 4 division only have 5?

 

32 teams means 16 teams in each league, which would then mean 2 divisions of 8 or 4 divisions of 4, in each league. I see no reason why they'd have to stick with 6 total divisions.

[MasterBlaster]

Why would we need to move the Marlins to Portland? Wouldn't simply moving Houston to the AL West be the easiest solution to evening out the leagues? It's not like Houston has 'the tie that binds' type stranglehold on a claim of the NL Central, they haven't won a World Series for example. This is a move that should be made without regard to expansion anyway IMHO.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

If they had 32 teams, get rid of the wild card and have 2 leagues with 4 divisions of 4 teams each. You have to win your division to go to the playoffs.

[MasterBlaster]

If they had 32 teams, get rid of the wild card and have 2 leagues with 4 divisions of 4 teams each. You have to win your division to go to the playoffs.

That's an excellent idea, I'd still like to see Houston sent to the AL

West in the meantime to even things out.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

If they had 32 teams, get rid of the wild card and have 2 leagues with 4 divisions of 4 teams each. You have to win your division to go to the playoffs.

That's an excellent idea, I'd still like to see Houston sent to the AL

West in the meantime to even things out.

 

I'm not sure Houston would agree to a move. To move an existing franchise, they will have to agree to it.

 

What I could envision though is something like this:

 

American League

East

Yankees

Red Sox

Orioles

Jays

 

North

White Sox

Twins

Indians

Tigers

 

South

Rays

Rangers

Royals

San Antonio or Charlotte (new franchise)

 

West

Angels

A's

Mariners

Portland or Vegas (new franchise)

 

NL

 

East

Mets

Phillies

Nationals

Marlins

 

North

Cubs

Cardinals

Brewers

Pirates

 

South

Astros

Braves

Dbacks

Reds

 

West

Rockies

Dodgers

Padres

Giants

 

Now, I recognize a few problems. The Cardinals fit better in the NL South than the Reds, but the Cubs and Cardinals wouldn't approve any plan that puts them in separate divisions. The Marlins also could shift from the East to the South in the NL, with maybe the Pirates going to the East and the Reds to the North. No divisional alignment is going to be perfect. This one, however, wouldn't cause anyone to shift leagues, so it would be easier to gain approval. If we shifted some teams across leagues, the geography might work a bit better.

[NCCubFan]

I know the MLB did some analysis of the Greensboro/Winston-Salem/High Point "Triad" area a little north of Charlotte when the Expos were being shopped around to different markets (before ultimately settling in DC, of course), but even that was a stretch.

Actually that was when the Twins were threatening to move. The Greensboro area was the pawn they were using to blackmail Minnesota into building them a new stadium.

If they had 32 teams' date=' get rid of the wild card and have 2 leagues with 4 divisions of 4 teams each. You have to win your division to go to the playoffs[/quote']I'd prefer 2 8-team divisions per league, with both division winners and two wild cards per league. With 4 divisions of 4 teams each I think there's too much of a chance of one division having a champion below .500 while two of the best teams are in the same division. And before the beginning of divisional play there were 10 teams in a league with just the winner advancing, so I don't think 8 teams per division is too out of line. You'd still have 4 playoff teams per league, but I think this approach would increase the chances of it being the 4 BEST teams.

[shnsajax]

If they had 32 teams, get rid of the wild card and have 2 leagues with 4 divisions of 4 teams each. You have to win your division to go to the playoffs.

That's an excellent idea, I'd still like to see Houston sent to the AL

West in the meantime to even things out.

 

I would move Arizona before Houston.

[questionmarkgrace]

Portland would be good because it would make for a great rivalry with the mariners who as it stands really dont have a geographic rival. And instead of bleachers they can just do a general admission big grassy nole like at minor league parks. The hippies out there would love it.

 

I could also see teams in Jersey City, Nashville or Memphis, Sacramento, and Austin. Jersey City could probably do very well do to proximity to the NYC financial district and existing public tranportation systems. Think the Meadowlands where the Giants play.

 

I would love to see more teams though. Especially if it evens divisions out.

[Vanilla Ice]

I know the MLB did some analysis of the Greensboro/Winston-Salem/High Point "Triad" area a little north of Charlotte when the Expos were being shopped around to different markets (before ultimately settling in DC, of course), but even that was a stretch.

 

The Triad area is more than a little north of Charlotte. Charlotte is also way bigger than the Triad. There are about 175,000 people in Greensboro and about 100,000 in both Winston Salem and High Point. That adds up to about 375,000 people (the size of Raleigh alone). Cary, Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill (Research Triangle Park) is also bigger than the Triad. Those four cities have about 765,000 people in it. There are more than enough people in Charlotte to support a baseball team. Charlotte alone is bigger than Milwaukee, Seattle, Boston, Denver, Washington DC, Vegas, Portland, Atlanta, Cleveland, Kansas City, Miami, Minneapolis, Arlington, Tampa, Anaheim, Cincinatti and Pittsburgh. Charlotte is has a higher population than 17 cities with MLB teams. Charlotte and Raleigh would both support MLB teams. Greensboro would not

[MasterBlaster]

If they had 32 teams, get rid of the wild card and have 2 leagues with 4 divisions of 4 teams each. You have to win your division to go to the playoffs.

That's an excellent idea, I'd still like to see Houston sent to the AL

West in the meantime to even things out.

 

I would move Arizona before Houston.

But then you create the problem of having only 4 teams in the NL West.

 

I definitely think a realignment is in order, and expansion seems to be one way to achieve equality. Indianapolis as an AL team is an intriguing prospect, since you've got Cubs, Cards, and Reds fans in the city. Most of the area surrounding Indy from my experience tend to be Reds fans. This would be a good time to create an MLB franchise there, since the Reds suck perennially, a franchise could easily sway those fans to a new home team. You're not going to move Cubs or Cards fans at this point, but certainly with the Reds fans, I think an alternative could be enticing for those based in and around Indy. It also helps that with the success of the Colts, I think it's safe to say that there is a heightened sports attentiveness, and that certainly would bode good for any MLB team.

 

Interleague would actually help an Indianapolis team out tremendously, as any Cards or Cubs matchups in Indy would certainly pack the house. I don't like interleague play, but if Indy were an AL team, there is no doubt that it would be good for a startup franchise to sell tickets.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

If they had 32 teams, get rid of the wild card and have 2 leagues with 4 divisions of 4 teams each. You have to win your division to go to the playoffs.

That's an excellent idea, I'd still like to see Houston sent to the AL

West in the meantime to even things out.

 

I would move Arizona before Houston.

But then you create the problem of having only 4 teams in the NL West.

 

I definitely think a realignment is in order, and expansion seems to be one way to achieve equality. Indianapolis as an AL team is an intriguing prospect, since you've got Cubs, Cards, and Reds fans in the city. Most of the area surrounding Indy from my experience tend to be Reds fans. This would be a good time to create an MLB franchise there, since the Reds suck perennially, a franchise could easily sway those fans to a new home team. You're not going to move Cubs or Cards fans at this point, but certainly with the Reds fans, I think an alternative could be enticing for those based in and around Indy. It also helps that with the success of the Colts, I think it's safe to say that there is a heightened sports attentiveness, and that certainly would bode good for any MLB team.

 

Interleague would actually help an Indianapolis team out tremendously, as any Cards or Cubs matchups in Indy would certainly pack the house. I don't like interleague play, but if Indy were an AL team, there is no doubt that it would be good for a startup franchise to sell tickets.

 

You can't just move a team to the other league unless you want an interleague series nearly every week of the season as would be necessary if you had two 15-team leagues.

 

That's the reason it's set up this way. If you move to 16 team leagues, you don't have that problem.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Also, if MLB decided to expand it's going to go to the markets that sell themselves better to baseball. First, whatever locale that gets a team will probably have to promise to build a stadium with as little contribution from MLB as possible. If an area isn't willing to get public funding for a stadium, MLB will look elsewhere. These areas will also have to convince MLB that they can put butts in the seats. Those two things will factor greater than the actual market size.

 

Also, my guess is the expansion fee would probably approach 500 million. So, it will take some deep pockets to make it all happen.

[Guest]

I know the MLB did some analysis of the Greensboro/Winston-Salem/High Point "Triad" area a little north of Charlotte when the Expos were being shopped around to different markets (before ultimately settling in DC, of course), but even that was a stretch.

 

The Triad area is more than a little north of Charlotte. Charlotte is also way bigger than the Triad. There are about 175,000 people in Greensboro and about 100,000 in both Winston Salem and High Point. That adds up to about 375,000 people (the size of Raleigh alone). Cary, Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill (Research Triangle Park) is also bigger than the Triad. Those four cities have about 765,000 people in it. There are more than enough people in Charlotte to support a baseball team. Charlotte alone is bigger than Milwaukee, Seattle, Boston, Denver, Washington DC, Vegas, Portland, Atlanta, Cleveland, Kansas City, Miami, Minneapolis, Arlington, Tampa, Anaheim, Cincinatti and Pittsburgh. Charlotte is has a higher population than 17 cities with MLB teams. Charlotte and Raleigh would both support MLB teams. Greensboro would not

 

As of the 2000 census: the Charlotte--Gastonia--Rock Hill, NC--SC MSA had a population of 1.5 million. Greensboro--Winston-Salem--High Point, NC MSA had a population of 1.25 million. Raleigh--Durham--Chapel Hill, NC MSA had a population of 1.18 million.All numbers per the U.S. Census, link (Microsoft Excel). I didn't bother checking to see how close those 3 MSAs are to each other.

 

The three biggest MSAs without a big league team (not counting San Juan, PR) are: Portland--Salem, OR--WA CMSA (2.25 million), Sacramento--Yolo, CA CMSA (1.8 million) and Orlando, FL MSA (1.6 million). Indianapolis, San Antonio, Norfolk-Virgina Beach-Newport News and Las Vegas are all within 100,000 of Orlando.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

 

The three biggest MSAs without a big league team (not counting San Juan, PR) are: Portland--Salem, OR--WA CMSA (2.25 million), Sacramento--Yolo, CA CMSA (1.8 million) and Orlando, FL MSA (1.6 million). Indianapolis, San Antonio, Norfolk-Virgina Beach-Newport News and Las Vegas are all within 100,000 of Orlando.

 

I could see Portland getting a team. My guess is that they wouldn't want to put another team in California or Flordia, so after Portland, Indianapolis, San Antonio, and Vegas would go to the forefront.

[Proven Veteran]

I think they should get rid of divisions. 4 best teams make the playoffs, period.

[Outshined_One]

I really don't think expansion is a good idea right now. This is a rough economic environment and it will be especially difficult to break into a new city where people are more likely to save their money than spend it at the ballpark.

 

In another five years, perhaps. Charlotte and Portland would be good options. Given baseball's popularity in Latin America, Mexico City and San Juan could be interesting choices.

[TruffleShuffle]

If they had 32 teams, get rid of the wild card and have 2 leagues with 4 divisions of 4 teams each. You have to win your division to go to the playoffs.

 

there's no way that certain teams (yankees/red sox) would agree to that. and frankly it would be unfair to them.

[SouthSideRyan]

I think they should get rid of divisions. 4 best teams make the playoffs, period.

 

That'd ensure really boring playoff races.

[Guest]

I really don't think expansion is a good idea right now. This is a rough economic environment and it will be especially difficult to break into a new city where people are more likely to save their money than spend it at the ballpark.

 

In another five years, perhaps. Charlotte and Portland would be good options. Given baseball's popularity in Latin America, Mexico City and San Juan could be interesting choices.

 

I think San Juan would be solid - it's the biggest metro area in the U.S. without a team and the Puerto Rican leagues have disbanded after struggling financially. MLB would fill the void perfectly.

[SouthSideRyan]

I really don't think expansion is a good idea right now. This is a rough economic environment and it will be especially difficult to break into a new city where people are more likely to save their money than spend it at the ballpark.

 

In another five years, perhaps. Charlotte and Portland would be good options. Given baseball's popularity in Latin America, Mexico City and San Juan could be interesting choices.

 

I think San Juan would be solid - it's the biggest metro area in the U.S. without a team and the Puerto Rican leagues have disbanded after struggling financially. MLB would fill the void perfectly.

 

Wait, so the Puerto Rican leagues struggled financially, so you think they can somehow support a major league franchise? The Mexico City and San Juan ideas are pipe dreams until drastic changes happen there financially.

 

And the 2 leagues, 4 divisions would definitely bring about the first sub 500 division winner.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I don't think the players union would agree to expansion in Mexico City or San Juan. I may be wrong and they might be persuaded by the extra jobs, but I think they would prefer expansion to other locales.

[radarluv1]

heres a problem that might not be improtant. what happens to the AAA team that gets displaced when a mlb team gets put in to portland or indy? i assume the parent club would get cash, and relocate to the non AAA city of their choice.

[NCCubFan]

You can't just move a team to the other league unless you want an interleague series nearly every week of the season as would be necessary if you had two 15-team leagues.

Not just "nearly every week," but literally every single day (except for occasional Monday and Thursday off days between series).