The Chicago Bears Preseason Thread

[Handlebar McSkullet]

Anyone want to take a guess at how good/bad the offense would be with Tom Brady at QB as opposed to Kyle Orton? Would it even matter that much?

 

This is a quote from my fiance who knows very little about football: "How come tom brady gets 7 seconds to throw, and Rex gets hit after 3 seconds. that doesnt seem fair. wasnt rex good when he had a chance to throw?"

 

Just to show that she really knows nothing of this great game: "football is boring, where are the slam dunks?"

 

The former question, while simplistic, is a logical one. I doubt Brady would have been 1/10th as successful if he would have been drafted by Bears.

 

Also quick note: I agree that Travaris Jackson has the talent to be a successful qb. I think if Grossman were to go anywhere and be successful it would be a team like the Dolphins with a young oline and a really good running game.

[NeifiIsMyHomeBoy]

Brady at best would give the Bears another 4-7 points again in my opinion. Brady is a great QB, but even great QB's need great weapons around them, and that is what made him so deadly. In New England he has plenty of weapons to spread the field and take advantage of opposing defenses, and the only reason he is able to do this is because the defense has to pay so much attention to Moss that it opens up other receivers like Welker. Unless Devin Hester turns into a Randy Moss like threat and the Offensive line can give Brady time than he won't have a huge impact.

 

However with the Bears defense I would think an additional 4-7 points per game would lead to around a two game improvement, and maybe move them into contention for a wild card.

[rawaction]

Why is it so hard for people to realize the vast majority of Orton's #s were accumulated during his rookie year when he was pressed into action, while almost all of Rex's numbers occured while he was a veteran? You cannot say "Orton throws just as many INT" as Rex based on those 15 games in his rookie season.

 

Because Orton didn't look much better when he did play last year.

[rawaction]

Anyone want to take a guess at how good/bad the offense would be with Tom Brady at QB as opposed to Kyle Orton? Would it even matter that much?

 

Would be better, but not much better. We saw Brady with poor protection in the Superbowl and saw how that turned out.

[jersey cubs fan]

Why is it so hard for people to realize the vast majority of Orton's #s were accumulated during his rookie year when he was pressed into action, while almost all of Rex's numbers occured while he was a veteran? You cannot say "Orton throws just as many INT" as Rex based on those 15 games in his rookie season.

 

Because Orton didn't look much better when he did play last year.

 

2 INT in 3 games.

[rawaction]

Why is it so hard for people to realize the vast majority of Orton's #s were accumulated during his rookie year when he was pressed into action, while almost all of Rex's numbers occured while he was a veteran? You cannot say "Orton throws just as many INT" as Rex based on those 15 games in his rookie season.

 

Because Orton didn't look much better when he did play last year.

 

2 INT in 3 games.

 

I thought he only played 2. Still, how many passes did he throw?

[jersey cubs fan]

Why is it so hard for people to realize the vast majority of Orton's #s were accumulated during his rookie year when he was pressed into action, while almost all of Rex's numbers occured while he was a veteran? You cannot say "Orton throws just as many INT" as Rex based on those 15 games in his rookie season.

 

Because Orton didn't look much better when he did play last year.

 

2 INT in 3 games.

 

I thought he only played 2. Still, how many passes did he throw?

 

At Minnesota, home in the freezer against GB and home against New Orleans. 80 attempts, 2 were picked. 73.9 rating. Clearly not good, but not what we saw his rookie year either.

 

Most people's opinions on Orton are based almost exclusively on what he did his rookie year and it is assumed he has not or cannot improve from those levels. I don't get why.

[Handlebar McSkullet]

Why is it so hard for people to realize the vast majority of Orton's #s were accumulated during his rookie year when he was pressed into action, while almost all of Rex's numbers occured while he was a veteran? You cannot say "Orton throws just as many INT" as Rex based on those 15 games in his rookie season.

 

Because Orton didn't look much better when he did play last year.

 

2 INT in 3 games.

 

I thought he only played 2. Still, how many passes did he throw?

 

At Minnesota, home in the freezer against GB and home against New Orleans. 80 attempts, 2 were picked. 73.9 rating. Clearly not good, but not what we saw his rookie year either.

 

Most people's opinions on Orton are based almost exclusively on what he did his rookie year and it is assumed he has not or cannot improve from those levels. I don't get why.

 

I am not in the camp that you cant like one player if you like the other. I like Orton, I think he can be a solid qb in this league. My feeling is that if Grossman can't succeed in this offense, Orton will fail as well.

[jersey cubs fan]

I am not in the camp that you cant like one player if you like the other. I like Orton, I think he can be a solid qb in this league. My feeling is that if Grossman can't succeed in this offense, Orton will fail as well.

 

I think that is probably, but not necessarily true. It really doesn't have much to do with if Rex can't, Kyle can't. They are different QBs. Rex is the guy I'd prefer if they had a line and some threats. He's the guy who is capable of turning a decent offense into a great one. But he's also liable to turn a weak offense into a record settingly horrible one. Kyle probably will fail, because the offense is bad and nobody would have a good shot of succeeding in it. But he might be able to help prevent them from absolute disaster with the kind of off his heals horrible decisions Grossman has made. This team can't afford for the other defense to score points, and I think the other defense is more likely to score points with Rex as QB than with Kyle.

[Soul]

Unfortunately many Bear fans just don't get why this offense sucks. They think it's all the QB. Just plug in the right guy and it automatically will produce offense. Therefore, the reason we can't move the ball is all on the QB, so boo the QB.

 

Doesn't work that way. Orton could be perfectly fine and we might never know it. Grossman showed he has some skills in early '06 -- it's totally and completely clear to me that when the blocking failed, so did he. That means if he goes somewhere else he could very well be decent.

[Handlebar McSkullet]

Unfortunately many Bear fans just don't get why this offense sucks. They think it's all the QB. Just plug in the right guy and it automatically will produce offense. Therefore, the reason we can't move the ball is all on the QB, so boo the QB.

 

Doesn't work that way. Orton could be perfectly fine and we might never know it. Grossman showed he has some skills in early '06 -- it's totally and completely clear to me that when the blocking failed, so did he. That means if he goes somewhere else he could very well be decent.

[jersey cubs fan]

Unfortunately many Bear fans just don't get why this offense sucks. They think it's all the QB. Just plug in the right guy and it automatically will produce offense. Therefore, the reason we can't move the ball is all on the QB, so boo the QB.

 

Which fits in perfectly with the "why not Hanie" article somebody wrote this week. Why not? Well, because there's no way he's going to have success this year, and if there is any hope for his future, it would be destroyed if he was thrown to the wolves with this line and receiver group this year.

 

The line has been the problem for years, yet people foolishly thought that having the same 5 playing every game somehow guaranteed they were playing well.

[Soul]

Anyone who can ask the question 'why not Hanie' with a straight face just doesn't get it.

 

Please tell me that person didn't try to use Hanie's TD passes against practice squad-level opponents as some kind of justification.

[jersey cubs fan]

Anyone who can ask the question 'why not Hanie' with a straight face just doesn't get it.

 

Please tell me that person didn't try to use Hanie's TD passes against practice squad-level opponents as some kind of justification.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/cs-080817-caleb-hanie-quarterback-bears-morrissey,0,3579229.column

 

I feel a little silly thinking what I'm thinking.

 

Thinking what I'm thinking puts me in the same category as the rabid, knee-jerk, very possibly brain-injured football fan who is ready to switch quarterbacks at the first sniff of an interception.

 

Thinking what I'm thinking automatically puts me in the category of a know-nothing rube whose last shred of credibility is flapping in the wind.

 

But I can't help thinking what I'm thinking.

 

I'm thinking Caleb Hanie should get a shot. At quarterback. For the Bears.

 

I know this is crazy talk. I know he's a rookie. I know he has played against third-string defenses in his two NFL exhibition games. I know he doesn't know much of the playbook.

 

I know every reason why this is insanity.

 

But ...

 

I also know he seems to have more athletic ability and field presence than Rex Grossman or Kyle Orton.

 

The only good reason I can come up with for not playing Mr. Hanie is that the offensive line is so unfailingly polite to opposing defenses that a rookie quarterback could have his body and spirit crushed.

 

But if doing what's best for the franchise is paramount, then it might be worth the risk.

 

Hanie has been impressive in the first two exhibition games. In the opener against Kansas City, he engineered two scoring drives and completed 9 of 16 passes for 101 yards. Against Seattle on Saturday night, he was 5 of 9 for 46 yards, throwing a touchdown pass and an interception.

 

Grossman and Orton have looked like Grossman and Orton.

[UMFan83]

OK now the inverse question. How much worse would the Patriots offense be Rex Grossman at QB vs. Tom Brady?

[Soul]

I love the "I know he's played against 3rd stringers" and "hey look how well he's played" logic.

 

It was against scrubs. And playing with scrubs. If you can guarantee the Colts will field their scrub team, then fine. Let's start Hanie with the scrub team.

[NeifiIsMyHomeBoy]

OK now the inverse question. How much worse would the Patriots offense be Rex Grossman at QB vs. Tom Brady?

 

Honestly, I think that the presense of Moss in an offense makes the job so much easier for the QB. He has been involved in the top two offenses in history, and is arguably the biggest gamechanger of this era when he wants to play. I also think that the improved o-line in NE would be a benefit to Rex. However he is no Tom Brady, and I think you are looking at a 6-9 ppg dropoff at the very least from last year. I also think Rex is good for one more turnover per game.

[Handlebar McSkullet]

OK now the inverse question. How much worse would the Patriots offense be Rex Grossman at QB vs. Tom Brady?

 

Honestly, I think that the presense of Moss in an offense makes the job so much easier for the QB. He has been involved in the top two offenses in history, and is arguably the biggest gamechanger of this era when he wants to play. I also think that the improved o-line in NE would be a benefit to Rex. However he is no Tom Brady, and I think you are looking at a 6-9 ppg dropoff at the very least from last year. I also think Rex is good for one more turnover per game.

 

Rex would be MVP and Orton would be a pro-bowler with 2 sb rings. Book it. Actually Orton would do great in that offense. Dump off to the man child wes welker all day.

[Handlebar McSkullet]

I love the "I know he's played against 3rd stringers" and "hey look how well he's played" logic.

 

It was against scrubs. And playing with scrubs. If you can guarantee the Colts will field their scrub team, then fine. Let's start Hanie with the scrub team.

 

That ridiculous article aside. Hanie has nfl skills. I am glad we scooped him up. He looks better than Joe Flacco playing the same level of competition. Better arm more mobility. Nfl scouting is a joke.

[cubweiser03]

I like Orton a little more than Rex in this offense because of his pocket presence(the qb is going to be under severe pressure, negative plays are going to kill drives, not enough fire power to overcome long down and distances) and hes a little more conservative in throwing to his targets. With better weapons i like Rex.

 

The only quarterback that i can think of doing something with this offense happens to be in jail.

[Banedon]

Gonna be hilarious when the Packers somehow find a way to get a worse record than the Bears this year.

 

No way. Every player on the Packer offense is better than the Bears counterpart with the exception of Kreutz. They have a solid defense too. The Packers will contend for the division and a Wild Card spot.

 

We could argue about TE. Hard to say Rodgers is better than anyone at this point...gotta put him and Orton in the "unknown" category. I like the Packers chances better, but don't count your chickens...crazy stuff happens.

[jersey cubs fan]

I love the "I know he's played against 3rd stringers" and "hey look how well he's played" logic.

 

It was against scrubs. And playing with scrubs. If you can guarantee the Colts will field their scrub team, then fine. Let's start Hanie with the scrub team.

 

That ridiculous article aside. Hanie has nfl skills. I am glad we scooped him up. He looks better than Joe Flacco playing the same level of competition. Better arm more mobility. Nfl scouting is a joke.

 

He was rated as a 4th rounder, I believe, by many. I like him too and hope they keep him on the roster instead of practice squad, where they could lose him.

[Soul]

Gonna be hilarious when the Packers somehow find a way to get a worse record than the Bears this year.

 

No way. Every player on the Packer offense is better than the Bears counterpart with the exception of Kreutz. They have a solid defense too. The Packers will contend for the division and a Wild Card spot.

 

We could argue about TE. Hard to say Rodgers is better than anyone at this point...gotta put him and Orton in the "unknown" category. I like the Packers chances better, but don't count your chickens...crazy stuff happens.

 

We'll see. The Packers didn't look all that ready for the season last game. Actually I was thinking to myself if Rodgers had put up a big goose egg like he just did, only in a Chicago uni, people would be calling for his head. Or at least they'd be calling for Hanie.

[NeifiIsMyHomeBoy]

 

We'll see. The Packers didn't look all that ready for the season last game. Actually I was thinking to myself if Rodgers had put up a big goose egg like he just did, only in a Chicago uni, people would be calling for his head. Or at least they'd be calling for Hanie.

 

Calling for Rodgers head is stupid. He is essentially a rookie QB, and isn't going to be Brett Favre right away. In fact at his ceiling he isn't going to be anywhere close to Brett Favre. Packers fanse understand this and are willing to give him a chance.

 

He is an unproven commidity and the Packers don't know what they have in him, and until they do the fanbase and franchise will remain commited. If Bears fans were calling for the head of Rodgers in the exact same situation in Chicago, and wanted Matt Flynn to start over him I think I would laugh myself to death.

[Soul]

 

We'll see. The Packers didn't look all that ready for the season last game. Actually I was thinking to myself if Rodgers had put up a big goose egg like he just did, only in a Chicago uni, people would be calling for his head. Or at least they'd be calling for Hanie.

 

Calling for Rodgers head is stupid. He is essentially a rookie QB, and isn't going to be Brett Favre right away. In fact at his ceiling he isn't going to be anywhere close to Brett Favre. Packers fanse understand this and are willing to give him a chance.

 

He is an unproven commidity and the Packers don't know what they have in him, and until they do the fanbase and franchise will remain commited. If Bears fans were calling for the head of Rodgers in the exact same situation in Chicago, and wanted Matt Flynn to start over him I think I would laugh myself to death.

 

Some of these Bear fans? I wouldn't put it past 'em, given the hypothetical situation. Chicago is the town, after all, that has been in love with it's QB depth chart for over 20 years.