Baseball History Thread

[OleMissCub]

it cracks me up to look at some of those old pictures and see guys who may have been in their late 30's to early 40's who look like they're pushing 70. Honus Wagner looks like my grandpa does now

 

People aged much, much earlier back then due to the harsher living conditions. Most didn't live past 60.

[OleMissCub]

Thank you so much. Uniform until I got to Drysdale and I can't see how he didn't throw out his shoulder. His weight is coming forward while his hand is gripping 'backwards'...maybe that's why I never made it. (hehe, like that's the only reason), but I can't see how he rotated through the pitch. The grip seems to show a 'two seamer' and I realize he had a couple of inches coming down, but still. Especially with such a small step. Any pitching people to help me w/ this? Thanks, OMC. Much obliged.

 

This might help...

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/drysdale-1.gif

[MemphisVol]

Babe Ruth's draft registration card during WWI. I like the "Fenway Park" response to "where employed?".

 

http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42497&stc=1&d=1210875048

 

 

That's weird, because I've always seen Ruth's birthday listed as Feb. 6.

[OleMissCub]

 

That's weird, because I've always seen Ruth's birthday listed as Feb. 6.

 

Good catch! You are right, Babe's birthday is usually Feb. 6.

[ConstableRabbit]

What does it say for "By Whom Employed"?

[Electron Blue]

What does it say for "By Whom Employed"?

 

Boston Americans -- the old name for the Red Sox

[series65cubsfan]

beat by Electron Blue

[sneakypower]

OPS+ from Position Players in the HOF:

 

Outfield:

Babe Ruth - 207

Ted Williams - 191

Mickey Mantle - 172

Ty Cobb - 167

Stan Musial - 159

Tris Speaker - 158

Willie Mays - 156

Hank Aaron - 155

Mel Ott - 155

Joe DiMaggio - 155

Ed Delahanty - 152

Elmer Flick - 149

Ralph Kiner - 149

Harry Heilmann - 148

Willie Stargell - 147

Sam Thompson - 146

Hack Wilson - 144

Sam Crawford - 144

Billy Hamilton - 141

Jesse Burkett - 140

Duke Snider - 140

Reggie Jackson - 139

King Kelly - 138

Chuck Klein - 137

Larry Doby - 136

Al Kaline - 134

Paul Waner - 134

Joe Medwick - 134

Jim O'Rourke - 133

Chick Hafey - 133

Billy Williams - 133

Joe Kelley - 133

Earl Averill - 133

Al Simmons - 132

Tony Gwynn - 132

Fred Clarke - 132

Ross Youngs - 130

Roberto Clemente - 130

Dave Winfield - 130

Carl Yazstremski - 129

Zack Wheat - 129

Goose Goslin - 128

Earle Combs - 126

Edd Roush - 126

Willie Keeler - 126

Monte Irvin - 126

Kiki Cuyler - 125

Kirby Puckett - 124

Enos Slaughter - 123

Hugh Duffy - 122

Heinie Manush - 121

George Davis - 121

Harry Hooper - 114

Sam Rice - 112

Richie Ashburn - 111

Lou Brock - 109

Max Carey - 107

Tommy McCarthy - 102

Lloyd Waner - 99

 

Jose Canseco - 132

[ConstableRabbit]

OPS+ from Position Players in the HOF:

 

Outfield:

Babe Ruth - 207

Ted Williams - 191

Mickey Mantle - 172

Ty Cobb - 167

Stan Musial - 159

Tris Speaker - 158

Willie Mays - 156

Hank Aaron - 155

Mel Ott - 155

Joe DiMaggio - 155

Ed Delahanty - 152

Elmer Flick - 149

Ralph Kiner - 149

Harry Heilmann - 148

Willie Stargell - 147

Sam Thompson - 146

Hack Wilson - 144

Sam Crawford - 144

Billy Hamilton - 141

Jesse Burkett - 140

Duke Snider - 140

Reggie Jackson - 139

King Kelly - 138

Chuck Klein - 137

Larry Doby - 136

Al Kaline - 134

Paul Waner - 134

Joe Medwick - 134

Jim O'Rourke - 133

Chick Hafey - 133

Billy Williams - 133

Joe Kelley - 133

Earl Averill - 133

Al Simmons - 132

Tony Gwynn - 132

Fred Clarke - 132

Ross Youngs - 130

Roberto Clemente - 130

Dave Winfield - 130

Carl Yazstremski - 129

Zack Wheat - 129

Goose Goslin - 128

Earle Combs - 126

Edd Roush - 126

Willie Keeler - 126

Monte Irvin - 126

Kiki Cuyler - 125

Kirby Puckett - 124

Enos Slaughter - 123

Hugh Duffy - 122

Heinie Manush - 121

George Davis - 121

Harry Hooper - 114

Sam Rice - 112

Richie Ashburn - 111

Lou Brock - 109

Max Carey - 107

Tommy McCarthy - 102

Lloyd Waner - 99

 

Jose Canseco - 132

VINDICATED.

[OleMissCub]

 

That's weird, because I've always seen Ruth's birthday listed as Feb. 6.

 

Here's Babe's WWII draft card with the correct birthday:

 

http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/Military_BabeRuthWW2DraftC.jpg

 

 

Here's what happened apparently. Ruth didn't learn his correct birthdate until he applied for a passport in the 30's. Heck, Ruth apparently got the year wrong too on the first one. On his WWI draft card he lists his birthyear as 1894, whereas on the correct one it's 1895.

[OleMissCub]

Bill James' best player and pitcher per year:

 

1900: Honus Wagner - Joe McGinnity

1901: Napoleon Lajoie - Cy Young

1902: Honus Wagner - Cy Young

1903: Honus Wagner - Joe McGinnity

1904: Honus Wagner - Jack Chesbro

1905: Honus Wagner - Christy Mathewson

1906: Honus Wagner - Three Finger Brown

1907: Honus Wagner - Ed Walsh

1908: Honus Wagner - Ed Walsh

1909: Ty Cobb - Three Finger Brown

 

1910: Napoleon Lajoie - Jack Coombs

1911: Ty Cobb - Pete Alexander

1912: Tris Speaker - Walter Johnson

1913: Eddie Collins - Walter Johnson

1914: Tris Speaker - Walter Johnson

1915: Ty Cobb - Pete Alexander

1916: Tris Speaker - Pete Alexander

1917: Ty Cobb - Pete Alexander

1918: Babe Ruth - Walter Johnson

1919: Babe Ruth - Eddie Cicotte

 

1920: Babe Ruth - Pete Alexander

1921: Babe Ruth - Red Faber

1922: Rogers Hornsby - Red Faber

1923: Babe Ruth - Dolf Luque

1924: Babe Ruth - Dazzy Vance

1925: Rogers Hornsby - Pete Donohue

1926: Babe Ruth - George Uhle

1927: Babe Ruth - Ted Lyons

1928: Babe Ruth - Dazzy Vance

1929: Rogers Hornsby - Lefty Grove

 

1930: Lou Gehrig - Lefty Grove

1931: Babe Ruth - Lefty Grove

1932: Jimmie Foxx - Lefty Grove

1933: Jimmie Foxx - Carl Hubbell

1934: Lou Gehrig - Dizzy Dean

1935: Arky Vaughan - Wes Ferrell

1936: Lou Gehrig - Carl Hubbell

1937: Joe Medwick - Lefty Gomez

1938: Mel Ott - Bill Lee

1939: Joe DiMaggio - Bucky Walters

 

1940: Johnny Mize - Bob Feller

1941: Joe DiMaggio - Thornton Lee

1942: Ted Williams - Mort Cooper

1943: Luke Appling - Spud Chandler

1944: Stan Musial - Dizzy Trout

1945: Snuff Stirnweiss - Hal Newhouser

1946: Ted Williams - Hal Newhouser

1947: Ted Williams - Warren Spahn

1948: Stan Musial - Johnny Sain

1949: Stan Musial - Mel Parnell

 

1950: Phil Rizzuto - Robin Roberts

1951: Stan Musial - Sal Maglie

1952: Stan Musial - Bobby Shantz

1953: Al Rosen - Robin Roberts

1954: Willie Mays - Robin Roberts

1955: Mickey Mantle - Robin Roberts

1956: Mickey Mantle - Early Wynn

1957: Mickey Mantle - Jim Bunning

1958: Mickey Mantle - Warren Spahn

1959: Hank Aaron - Vern Law

 

1960: Eddie Mathews - Lindy McDaniel

1961: Mickey Mantle - Warren Spahn

1962: Frank Robinson - Bob Purkey

1963: Hank Aaron - Sandy Koufax

1964: Dick Allen - Dean Chance

1965: Willie Mays - Sandy Koufax

1966: Frank Robinson - Sandy Koufax

1967: Carl Yastrzemski - Jim Bunning

1968: Carl Yastrzemski - Bob Gibson

1969: Willie McCovey - Tom Seaver

 

1970: Carl Yastrzemski - Sam McDowell

1971: Joe Torre - Ferguson Jenkins

1972: Dick Allen - Steve Carlton

1973: Joe Morgan - John Hiller

1974: Joe Morgan - Gaylord Perry

1975: Joe Morgan - Jim Palmer

1976: Joe Morgan - Mark Fidrych

1977: Rod Carew - Jim Palmer

1978: Dave Parker - Ron Guidry

1979: Fred Lynn - Jim Kern

 

1980: Mike Schmidt - Steve Carlton

1981: Mike Schmidt - Steve McCatty

1982: Robin Yount - Steve Carlton

1983: Cal Ripken - Dan Quisenberry

1984: Ryne Sandberg - Dave Stieb

1985: George Brett - Dwight Gooden

1986: Wade Boggs - Roger Clemens

1987: Alan Trammell - Roger Clemens

1988: Jose Canseco - Orel Hershiser

1989: Will Clark - Bret Saberhagen

 

1990: Rickey Henderson - Roger Clemens

1991: Barry Bonds - Roger Clemens

1992: Barry Bonds - Greg Maddux

1993: Barry Bonds - Kevin Appier

1994: Jeff Bagwell - Greg Maddux

1995: Barry Bonds - Greg Maddux

1996: Jeff Bagwell - John Smoltz

1997: Frank Thomas - Roger Clemens

1998: Mark McGwire - Greg Maddux

1999: Derek Jeter - Pedro Martinez

[TruffleShuffle]

1945: Snuff Stirnweiss - Hal Newhouser

 

snuff stirnweiss??? i've never even heard of that guy, and i know a whole lot of baseball history. i guess that happens when all the good players are away in the war.

[OleMissCub]

1945: Snuff Stirnweiss - Hal Newhouser

 

snuff stirnweiss??? i've never even heard of that guy, and i know a whole lot of baseball history. i guess that happens when all the good players are away in the war.

 

Yeah, I never heard of him either.

 

His career line: 1028 games, .268/.362/.371, 102 OPS+, 29 HR, 157 doubles, 68 triples, 281 RBI, 50.0 WARP3

 

From his wikipedia page:

 

A native of New York City, Stirnweiss was an All-American halfback at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. After being graduated in 1940, he was drafted by the Chicago Cardinals of the National Football League. Nevertheless, he cast his lot with baseball and signed with the New York Yankees organization, starting his major league career with the Yankees in 1943.

 

Stirnweiss was killed at age 39 when the passenger train he was on plunged off the CRRNJ Newark Bay Bridge between Elizabethport and Bayonne, New Jersey.

 

He was in his early 20's during WWII...he must have been colorblind or flatfooted or something to have not been drafted.

[MemphisVol]

 

That's weird, because I've always seen Ruth's birthday listed as Feb. 6.

 

Here's Babe's WWII draft card with the correct birthday:

 

http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/Military_BabeRuthWW2DraftC.jpg

 

 

Here's what happened apparently. Ruth didn't learn his correct birthdate until he applied for a passport in the 30's. Heck, Ruth apparently got the year wrong too on the first one. On his WWI draft card he lists his birthyear as 1894, whereas on the correct one it's 1895.

 

 

That's pretty funny! By the way, thanks for all of the pics. I'm a baseball history fanatic and this is by far my favorite thread ever.

[OleMissCub]

NL MVP voting, 1962:

 

1) Maury Wills: .299/.347/.373, 100 OPS+, 6 HR, 13 doubles, 10 triples, 48 RBI, 130 runs, 104 SB, 60.5 VORP

2) Willie Mays: .304/.384/.615, 165 OPS+, 49 HR, 36 doubles, 5 triples, 141 RBI, 130 runs, 18 SB, 84.9 VORP

4) Frank Robinson: .342/.421/.624, 173 OPS+, 39 HR, 51 doubles, 2 triples, 136 RBI, 134 runs, 18 SB, 78.4 VORP

6) Hank Aaron: .323/.390/.618, 170 OPS+, 45 HR, 26 doubles, 6 triples, 128 RBI, 127 runs, 15 SB, 77.2 VORP

 

#-o #-o

[TruffleShuffle]

NL MVP voting, 1962:

 

1) Maury Wills: .299/.347/.373, 100 OPS+, 6 HR, 13 doubles, 10 triples, 48 RBI, 130 runs, 104 SB, 60.5 VORP

2) Willie Mays: .304/.384/.615, 165 OPS+, 49 HR, 36 doubles, 5 triples, 141 RBI, 130 runs, 18 SB, 84.9 VORP

4) Frank Robinson: .342/.421/.624, 173 OPS+, 39 HR, 51 doubles, 2 triples, 136 RBI, 134 runs, 18 SB, 78.4 VORP

6) Hank Aaron: .323/.390/.618, 170 OPS+, 45 HR, 26 doubles, 6 triples, 128 RBI, 127 runs, 15 SB, 77.2 VORP

 

#-o #-o

 

maury wills, 104 steals.

 

END OF DISCUSSION

[OleMissCub]

AWESOMENESS: Check out Frank Chance and John McGraw walking the plank, and Wagner at the bow.

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48464&d=1217471591

[OleMissCub]

Interesting photo of the 4 Hall of Famers from the 1898 Baltimore Orioles: (clockwise from top left) Wee Willie Keeler, John McGraw, Hughie Jennings, and Joe Kelley.

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26246&d=1184441132

[OleMissCub]

Some photos from when Babe was a pitcher with the Red Sox. Perhaps we can get a sense of what his delivery might have looked like from these pics of him warming up:

 

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/6583/ruthpitchlv7.jpg

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8525/ruthpitch2jp3.jpg

http://memory.loc.gov/ndlpcoop/ichicdn/s0608/s060862.jpg

http://memory.loc.gov/ndlpcoop/ichicdn/s0597/s059778.jpg

http://memory.loc.gov/ndlpcoop/ichicdn/s0611/s061192.jpg

http://memory.loc.gov/ndlpcoop/ichicdn/s0611/s061193.jpg

[OleMissCub]

Shoeless Joe Jackson

 

162 game avg: .356/.423/.517, 170 OPS+, 7 HR, 37 doubles, 20 triples, 95 RBI, 106 Runs, 25 stolen bases

 

"He was the finest natural hitter in the history of the game." - Ty Cobb

 

"I copied Jackson's style because I thought he was the greatest hitter I had ever seen, the greatest natural hitter I ever saw. He's the guy who made me a hitter." - Babe Ruth

 

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/joejackson-1.jpghttp://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/joejackson13.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/joejackson2.jpghttp://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/joejackson3.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/joejackson5.jpghttp://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/joejackson6.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/joejackson7.jpghttp://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/joejackson8.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/joejackson4.jpg

 

With some of his fellow superstars of the 1910's...

 

Ty Cobb, Jackson, & Sam Crawford:

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/joejackson9.jpg

 

Jackson, Cobb, & Napoleon Lajoie:

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/joejackson10.jpg

 

Jackson & Babe Ruth:

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/joejackson11.jpg

 

Great high-res shot of Cobb & Jackson

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/joejackson12.jpg

 

Swing and a miss!!

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/9678/joejacksonfp8.gif

[Guest]

 

Yeah, well, he's still a liar.

 

He's wearing shoes in all of those pictures.

[OleMissCub]

 

He's wearing shoes in all of those pictures.

 

Indeed he did. In that high-res Cobb/Jackson photo his cleats do look kind of funny though.

 

http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/39/joeshoesdz0.jpg

[OleMissCub]

From a Baseball Hall of Fame dinner in the early 50's. Imagine having a box full of baseballs there! You could damn near set yourself up for life.

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47584&d=1216612120

[OleMissCub]

From 1924....Who wants a Cubs sweater?

 

http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/9737/cubssweatergw9.jpg

[OleMissCub]

Highest OPS+ in Major Leagues each season:

 

1901: Nap Lajoie - 200

1902: Ed Delahanty - 186

1903: Nap Lajoie - 169

1904: Nap Lajoie - 205

1905: Cy Seymour - 181

1906: George Stone - 192

1907: Honus Wagner - 186

1908: Honus Wagner - 205

1909: Ty Cobb - 194

1910: Ty Cobb - 206

1911: Ty Cobb - 196

1912: Ty Cobb - 200

1913: Ty Cobb - 194

1914: Ty Cobb - 190

1915: Ty Cobb - 195

1916: Tris Speaker -185

1917: Ty Cobb - 209

1918: Babe Ruth - 194

1919: Babe Ruth - 219

1920: Babe Ruth - 256

1921: Babe Ruth - 239

1922: Rogers Hornsby - 207

1923: Babe Ruth - 229

1924: Rogers Hornsby - 222

1925: Rogers Hornsby - 210

1926: Babe Ruth - 225

1927: Babe Ruth - 226

1928: Babe Ruth - 208

1929: Babe Ruth - 193

1930: Babe Ruth - 211

1931: Babe Ruth - 218

1932: Jimmie Foxx - 205

1933: Jimmie Foxx - 200

1934: Lou Gehrig - 208

1935: Arky Vaughan - 190

1936: Lou Gehrig - 190

1937: Joe Medwick - 180

1938: Jimmie Foxx - 182

1939: Jimmie Foxx - 188

1940: Johnny Mize - 176

1941: Ted Williams - 235

1942: Ted Williams - 217

1943: Stan Musial - 178

1944: Stan Musial - 175

1945: Tommy Holmes - 175

1946: Ted Williams - 215

1947: Ted Williams - 205

1948: Stan Musial - 200

1949: Ted Williams - 192

1950: Stan Musial - 163

1951: Ralph Kiner - 184

1952: Stan Musial - 167

1953: Al Rosen -179

1954: Ted Williams - 201

1955: Mickey Mantle - 180

1956: Mickey Mantle - 210

1957: Ted Williams - 233

1958: Mickey Mantle - 188

1959: Hank Aaron - 181

1960: Frank Robinson - 169

1961: Mickey Mantle - 206

1962: Mickey Mantle - 196

1963: Hank Aaron - 179

1964: Mickey Mantle - 178

1965: Willie Mays - 184

1966: Frank Robinson - 198

1967: Carl Yazstremski - 193

1968: Willie McCovey - 174

1969: Willie McCovey - 209

1970: Willie McCovey - 181

1971: Hank Aaron - 194

1972: Dick Allen - 199

1973: Willie Stargell - 186

1974: Willie Stargell - 187

1975: Joe Morgan - 169

1976: Joe Morgan - 187

1977: Rod Carew - 178

1978: Dave Parker - 166

1979: Fred Lynn - 176

1980: George Brett - 203

1981: Mike Schmidt - 199

1982: Robin Yount - 166

1983: George Brett - 158

1984: Don Mattingly - 156

1985: Pedro Guerrero - 181

1986: Don Mattingly - 161

1987: Jack Clark - 176

1988: Jose Canseco - 170

1989: Kevin Mitchell - 192

1990: Rickey Henderson - 188

1991: Frank Thomas - 180

1992: Barry Bonds - 205

1993: Barry Bonds - 204

1994: Jeff Bagwell - 213

1995: Edgar Martinez - 185

1996: Mark McGwire - 196

1997: Mike Piazza - 185

1998: Mark McGwire - 216

1999: Mark McGwire - 177

2000: Barry Bonds - 188

2001: Barry Bonds - 259

2002: Barry Bonds - 268

2003: Barry Bonds - 231

2004: Barry Bonds - 263

2005: Derrek Lee - 174

2006: Travis Hafner - 179

2007: Alex Rodriguez - 177

 

Total:

 

Babe Ruth - 11

Ty Cobb - 8

Barry Bonds - 7

Ted Williams - 7

Mickey Mantle - 6

Stan Musial - 5

Jimmie Foxx - 4

Mark McGwire - 3

Rogers Hornsby - 3

Willie McCovey - 3

Nap Lajoie - 3

Hank Aaron - 3