Re: 5/25 Cubs (Lilly) @ Pirates (Maholm) 12:35 PM WGN

[17 Seconds]

Cesar Izturis walks

Cesar Izturis steals 2nd, advances to 3rd on throwing error by Martin

Cesar Izturis scores on sac fly....tie game

 

yup

[killthegoat06]

3-3 ...second place,here we come

[Jon]

Ugh. None of those things are routine. Catching a fly ball is routine. A player isn't expected to hit 5 home runs. A pitcher isn't expected to strike out every single batter or never have a bad outing. An outfielder is expected to catch routine fly balls.

Again, expectations have no impact on the game. Nor does his contract. The only thing that influences the outcome of any given game is what actually happens. You can't disregard a 2-run HR just because he's paid more or should make a catch, especially when one resulted in two runs and the other resulted in a single run.

 

Picking one play out of a handful that resulted in runs just because it happened with 2 outs in the 9th is no less arbitrary than picking one that happened any other inning and giving it more importance than it deserves. And that doesn't even take into accounts all of the other plays.

[17 Seconds]

Whatever, I don't even care anymore. All that matters is that we've now lost 4 of 5.

[Butterscup1679666578]

Did Brant Brown have a 136 million dollar contract? My memories a bit hazy.

 

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=ml-cubs

[Sosa21MVP]

The "136 million" references are getting pretty old. It is basically a sunk cost at this point and there is no salary cap. Quit looking for reasons to be miserable. ](*,)

[Guest]

Just because the Cubs took the lead and Soriano's misplay happened to be the 27th out rather than the 10th, that means it's a lot more important?

 

It's a leverage thing because you guys are arguing that every situation is exactly the same, which is incorrect.

 

Let's take the usage of Marmol as a primary example. You have Marmol available to get exactly three outs in a given game and you know he's going to give you three outs regardless. No more, no less. Would you rather have him come in with the Cubs up one in the seventh inning, the bases loaded and no outs or in the ninth with the Cubs up one with nobody on and nobody out? It's the former and anyone here with half a brain would pick that situation. Why? Because it's the higher leverage situation and the Cubs are more likely to lose the game in the seventh than in the ninth in that scenario. That's why everybody groans when Lou waits until the eighth to bring him in rather than use him in what's likely a much more important situation earlier in the game.

 

Soriano making a misplay on the 27th out instead of the 10th out with the situations being the same (same score, runners on, outs, etc.) is obviously going to be more important because it's the 27th out. Just like a guy hitting a solo home run with the game tied in the bottom of the ninth is more important than a guy hitting a home run in the bottom of the first. Why? Because there are fewer outs left in the game and that is the limiting factor of a baseball game.

[CubColtPacer]

Just because the Cubs took the lead and Soriano's misplay happened to be the 27th out rather than the 10th, that means it's a lot more important?

 

It's a leverage thing because you guys are arguing that every situation is exactly the same, which is incorrect.

 

Let's take the usage of Marmol as a primary example. You have Marmol available to get exactly three outs in a given game and you know he's going to give you three outs regardless. No more, no less. Would you rather have him come in with the Cubs up one in the seventh inning, the bases loaded and no outs or in the ninth with the Cubs up one with nobody on and nobody out? It's the former and anyone here with half a brain would pick that situation. Why? Because it's the higher leverage situation and the Cubs are more likely to lose the game in the seventh than in the ninth in that scenario.

 

Soriano making a misplay on the 27th out instead of the 10th out with the situations being the same (same score, runners on, outs, etc.) is obviously going to be more important because it's the 27th out. Just like a guy hitting a solo home run with the game tied in the bottom of the ninth is more important than a guy hitting a home run in the bottom of the first. Why? Because there are fewer outs left in the game and that is the limiting factor of a baseball game.

 

You're right, Marmol is the perfect example. But his argument works against you, not for you.

 

The entire point of leaving Marmol as not the closer is that the 25th-27th outs are no more important than any of the outs before that. All that matters is that he's used in situations that maximize him preventing runs for the game overall. If runs given up in the 9th really were more important, then Marmol should be the closer from now on.

 

Now, there is one time I can buy that the run being given up in the 9th is a problem. That's if the leading team has changed their strategy and not scored as many runs as they otherwise could have because they're leading, such as putting in defensive replacements. The Cubs never did that today. They tried their best to score runs all the way throughout the game. So in today's game, Soriano giving up a run counted the same if it happened in the 7th as in the 9th. The Cubs would have made the same decisions and sent up the same hitters to the plate. The only difference was the psychological impact it had on the team by being the last out, and I'll leave it to everyone individually to decide how much a play like that has a psychological impact on a team.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Dodgers win. At least we stay tied for first for one more day.

[BCVM22]

Hooray for the little blue "In play, run(s)" dot.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Scully just said it will be around 1 AM before the Dodgers arrive in Chicago. Maybe they will be a little tired for the game tomorrow.

[killthegoat06]

DODGERS WIN!!!! WE AREN'T IN SECOND PLACE YET!!!!!!!!!!

 

SOLE POSSESSION WITH A WIN TOMORROW!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BCVM22]

Scully just said it will be around 1 AM before the Dodgers arrive in Chicago. Maybe they will be a little tired for the game tomorrow.

 

Don't be silly, you know they're going to play like a team that just had the most restful, productive off-day ever. That stuff never works in our favor.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Yeah.... but..... but... we'll have Bear weather for the game, eh?

[UMFan83]

Scully just said it will be around 1 AM before the Dodgers arrive in Chicago. Maybe they will be a little tired for the game tomorrow.

 

Good, it will match the fact that our entire bullpen is about to go on the DL with arm injuries.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The "136 million" references are getting pretty old. It is basically a sunk cost at this point and there is no salary cap. Quit looking for reasons to be miserable. ](*,)

 

Sure, theres no salary cap, but if we end up with an owner without the deep pockets of the Trib, dont expect to see any big signings for a very, very long time.

[17 Seconds]

lol at the Pads/Reds bullpens today.

[BCVM22]

Yeah.... but..... but... we'll have Bear weather for the game, eh?

 

77 degrees and a chance of storms in the afternoon?

[Sosa21MVP]

The "136 million" references are getting pretty old. It is basically a sunk cost at this point and there is no salary cap. Quit looking for reasons to be miserable. ](*,)

 

Sure, theres no salary cap, but if we end up with an owner without the deep pockets of the Trib, dont expect to see any big signings for a very, very long time.

 

If that happens, we will have issues in the future regardless of the Soriano contract unless we hire the next Billy Beane.

[UMFan83]

The "136 million" references are getting pretty old. It is basically a sunk cost at this point and there is no salary cap. Quit looking for reasons to be miserable. ](*,)

 

Sure, theres no salary cap, but if we end up with an owner without the deep pockets of the Trib, dont expect to see any big signings for a very, very long time.

 

If that happens, we will have issues in the future regardless of the Soriano contract unless we hire the next Billy Beane.

 

Not necessarily. We just have to hire a GM that doesn't throw money at all his problems and worry about the consequences later.

[CubColtPacer]

The Reds have now resorted to using Aaron Harang out of the bullpen as his side session. He's also the 17th pitcher to enter this game between the two teams combined (not counting Bronson Arroyo, who pinch-hit but didn't pitch).

[CubsGM]

What were Pat and Ron's reaction to the drop?

[Sosa21MVP]

The "136 million" references are getting pretty old. It is basically a sunk cost at this point and there is no salary cap. Quit looking for reasons to be miserable. ](*,)

 

Sure, theres no salary cap, but if we end up with an owner without the deep pockets of the Trib, dont expect to see any big signings for a very, very long time.

 

If that happens, we will have issues in the future regardless of the Soriano contract unless we hire the next Billy Beane.

 

Not necessarily. We just have to hire a GM that doesn't throw money at all his problems and worry about the consequences later.

 

Regardless, if we hire a smart GM then the Cubs franchise is not doomed because of Soriano's contract. If we hire a dumb GM then it don't matter, we are screwed anyways.

 

I just don't see the point in continuing to be hung up on $136 million.

[CubsGM]

We could have signed Carlos Lee for $60,000,000 less.

[Sosa21MVP]

We could have signed Carlos Lee for $60,000,000 less.

 

That is great. It's history though. I guess I could sit around and lose sleep over who the Bears could have drafted instead of Cade McNown, Curtis Enis, Stan Thomas, David Terrell, etc but what is the point?

 

To each his own I guess. I've already seen a lifetime of woulda, coulda, shoulda scenarios for all of my teams but it's just not worth it to bang my head into the same brick wall over it. It just seems like some fans live for misery and just love being able to have the opportunity to harp on the same broken record 1 million times. I don't get it, but maybe that is just me.