Lou Pinella, What the hell are you doing?

[Jehrico]

Most managers do stupid things. Lou doesn't abuse his starters, which is the one thing I wanted above everything else in a new manager, so I find it hard to get on board the "get rid of Lou" train when many other managers would do the same things, or at least similar, and some with the added bonus of needlessly risking injury to our SP. Way to throw Volquez for 118 today Dusty!

 

Volquez threw 118 pitches with a 9 run lead. Hahahahahahahahahahaha.

 

Count me in as liking Lou a lot when comparing him with some of our previous managers.

Who is the manager that left young Volquez in for roughly 120 pitches in a blowout? Edinson Volquez, meet Mark Prior. Here's your towel, learn how to throw it.

 

 

While Lou can be frustrating to watch during a game, you have to admit, his teams are far more fundamentally sound top to bottom than any team I've ever seen Dusty field. He's maddening at in game management, but he seems pretty good at all of the other stuff.

[C.C.]

From Rotoworld:

 

Edison Volquez fanned 10 in seven scoreless innings Wednesday in a win over the Cubs.

It was a great performance, but it was hard to believe Volquez was allowed to throw 118 pitches in a 9-0 game. He was working on four days' rest, too. He likely will get at least one extra day off after this one. The last thing the Reds need is for the NL's ERA leader to go down with a sore arm.

 

I didn't know he was on 4 days rest! Dusty never learns.

[jersey cubs fan]

Most managers do stupid things. Lou doesn't abuse his starters, which is the one thing I wanted above everything else in a new manager, so I find it hard to get on board the "get rid of Lou" train when many other managers would do the same things, or at least similar, and some with the added bonus of needlessly risking injury to our SP. Way to throw Volquez for 118 today Dusty!

 

Volquez threw 118 pitches with a 9 run lead. Hahahahahahahahahahaha.

 

Count me in as liking Lou a lot when comparing him with some of our previous managers.

Who is the manager that left young Volquez in for roughly 120 pitches in a blowout? Edinson Volquez, meet Mark Prior. Here's your towel, learn how to throw it.

 

 

While Lou can be frustrating to watch during a game, you have to admit, his teams are far more fundamentally sound top to bottom than any team I've ever seen Dusty field. He's maddening at in game management, but he seems pretty good at all of the other stuff.

 

I actually put the in game management well down the list of concerns. Compared to Dusty he's solid. The biggest issue is how he determines who gets jobs, which is apparantly based off first impressions and short-term thinking.

 

The biggest strategy problem I've had was actually pre-game, when he pushed Hill back, making it all the more difficult for him to deal with control issues. That forced their worst pitcher to pitch against Milwaukee, and forced him to go with Lieber against a team perfectly suited to destroy Lieber. His lack of foresight on the Hill move was incredibly disappointing.

 

He doesn't seem too sacrifice happy, although he does make far too many decisions that lead to outs on the basepaths.

[jersey cubs fan]

From Rotoworld:

 

Edison Volquez fanned 10 in seven scoreless innings Wednesday in a win over the Cubs.

It was a great performance, but it was hard to believe Volquez was allowed to throw 118 pitches in a 9-0 game. He was working on four days' rest, too. He likely will get at least one extra day off after this one. The last thing the Reds need is for the NL's ERA leader to go down with a sore arm.

 

I didn't know he was on 4 days rest! Dusty never learns.

 

4 days rest is normal.

[C.C.]

From Rotoworld:

 

Edison Volquez fanned 10 in seven scoreless innings Wednesday in a win over the Cubs.

It was a great performance, but it was hard to believe Volquez was allowed to throw 118 pitches in a 9-0 game. He was working on four days' rest, too. He likely will get at least one extra day off after this one. The last thing the Reds need is for the NL's ERA leader to go down with a sore arm.

 

I didn't know he was on 4 days rest! Dusty never learns.

 

4 days rest is normal.

 

 

Yes, yes it is. Nevermind!

[Jehrico]

From Rotoworld:

 

Edison Volquez fanned 10 in seven scoreless innings Wednesday in a win over the Cubs.

It was a great performance, but it was hard to believe Volquez was allowed to throw 118 pitches in a 9-0 game. He was working on four days' rest, too. He likely will get at least one extra day off after this one. The last thing the Reds need is for the NL's ERA leader to go down with a sore arm.

 

I didn't know he was on 4 days rest! Dusty never learns.

 

4 days rest is normal.

 

 

Yes, yes it is. Nevermind!

No, you were right. He doesn't learn. He still allowed a young pitcher to throw way too many pitches in a blowout. That was a great oppotunity to let a mop up guy or someone who has been struggling lately to get some innings, and as always, he missed it.

 

It's funny how Dusty shows little regard for his starters during the regular season, yet he wouldn't pull out all of the strings and consider using any starters when he blew the '02 WS.

[C.C.]

From Rotoworld:

 

Edison Volquez fanned 10 in seven scoreless innings Wednesday in a win over the Cubs.

It was a great performance, but it was hard to believe Volquez was allowed to throw 118 pitches in a 9-0 game. He was working on four days' rest, too. He likely will get at least one extra day off after this one. The last thing the Reds need is for the NL's ERA leader to go down with a sore arm.

 

I didn't know he was on 4 days rest! Dusty never learns.

 

4 days rest is normal.

 

 

Yes, yes it is. Nevermind!

No, you were right. He doesn't learn. He still allowed a young pitcher to throw way too many pitches in a blowout. That was a great oppotunity to let a mop up guy or someone who has been struggling lately to get some innings, and as always, he missed it.

 

It's funny how Dusty shows little regard for his starters during the regular season, yet he wouldn't pull out all of the strings and consider using any starters when he blew the '02 WS.

 

I agree, but I thought the starter was moved up a day. I wasn't thinking.

[Keener98]

So Felix gets to sit the entire DBacks series huh Lou? Thats genius.

[Derwood]

So Felix gets to sit the entire DBacks series huh Lou? Thats genius.

 

well today is the one day he should be sitting

[Chocolate Milk]

Please stop playing Reed Johnson. 124 PA and a .295 SLG. Oof.

[cheapseats]

Please stop playing Reed Johnson. 124 PA and a .295 SLG. Oof.

 

Someone needs to punch Lou in the face.

[Keener98]

So Felix gets to sit the entire DBacks series huh Lou? Thats genius.

 

well today is the one day he should be sitting

 

Right, which is why you dont sit him for the 1st 2 games of the series against rightys.

[JimSorgi]

Hey Lou, great move using Chad Fox with the bases loaded. That worked out real well. :banghead:

[Keener98]

And Lou strikes again. The guy is a genius.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Hey Lou, great move using Chad Fox with the bases loaded. That worked out real well. :banghead:

 

Not to mention intentionally loading the bases before he came in.

[Derwood]

Hey Lou, great move using Chad Fox with the bases loaded. That worked out real well. :banghead:

 

Not to mention intentionally loading the bases before he came in.

 

Earl Weaver had a managing philosophy that you never brought a reliever into a bases loaded situation

 

at least I think it was Weaver. maybe Sparky Anderson. anyway, stupid, yeah

[manbearcub]

Lou deserves some credit for PHing Soriano and Ward the way he did. Like someone in the game thread said, Melvin was dumb for not throwing Soriano 4 slider/fastballs away and watch him hack instead of IBBing him.

[Keener98]

Lou deserves some credit for PHing Soriano and Ward the way he did. Like someone in the game thread said, Melvin was dumb for not throwing Soriano 4 slider/fastballs away and watch him hack instead of IBBing him.

 

Meh personally I dont know why Lou deserves credit for this move. Melvin was the one who made the move look good by walking him. Personally I wouldve went with Cedeno, who has shown patience this year, that way if Melvin pitches to him, he has a better chance to put the ball in play. Or if he IBB's him, then you still have one of your best hitters still available, instead of being wasted to get IBB. Melvin should have pitched to Soriano and see if he would get himself out like he so often does.

[Wilson A2000]

Lou deserves some credit for PHing Soriano and Ward the way he did. Like someone in the game thread said, Melvin was dumb for not throwing Soriano 4 slider/fastballs away and watch him hack instead of IBBing him.

 

Meh personally I dont know why Lou deserves credit for this move. Melvin was the one who made the move look good by walking him. Personally I wouldve went with Cedeno, who has shown patience this year, that way if Melvin pitches to him, he has a better chance to put the ball in play. Or if he IBB's him, then you still have one of your best hitters still available, instead of being wasted to get IBB. Melvin should have pitched to Soriano and see if he would get himself out like he so often does.

 

Lou makes a good call and he still gets critiqued. Cub fans are never happy.

[BigbadB]

Lou deserves some credit for PHing Soriano and Ward the way he did. Like someone in the game thread said, Melvin was dumb for not throwing Soriano 4 slider/fastballs away and watch him hack instead of IBBing him.

 

Meh personally I dont know why Lou deserves credit for this move. Melvin was the one who made the move look good by walking him. Personally I wouldve went with Cedeno, who has shown patience this year, that way if Melvin pitches to him, he has a better chance to put the ball in play. Or if he IBB's him, then you still have one of your best hitters still available, instead of being wasted to get IBB. Melvin should have pitched to Soriano and see if he would get himself out like he so often does.

 

Lou makes a good call and he still gets critiqued. Cub fans are never happy.

 

I read it as a valid difference of opinion on the best way to achieve success given the situation.

[Keener98]

Lou deserves some credit for PHing Soriano and Ward the way he did. Like someone in the game thread said, Melvin was dumb for not throwing Soriano 4 slider/fastballs away and watch him hack instead of IBBing him.

 

Meh personally I dont know why Lou deserves credit for this move. Melvin was the one who made the move look good by walking him. Personally I wouldve went with Cedeno, who has shown patience this year, that way if Melvin pitches to him, he has a better chance to put the ball in play. Or if he IBB's him, then you still have one of your best hitters still available, instead of being wasted to get IBB. Melvin should have pitched to Soriano and see if he would get himself out like he so often does.

 

Lou makes a good call and he still gets critiqued. Cub fans are never happy.

 

Its called Lou was lucky Melvin was an idiot and didnt try getting Soriano to get himself out. Believe me there are plenty of things to criticize Lou on with this game. Bringing Fox into a pressure situation. Loading the bases making that an even more pressure situation. I wont even go into the Cedeno/Pie situations, and the constant use of Marmol in stupid situations.

[Amazing_Grace]

I think a lot of the criticism of Piniella is over the top and unjustified. A lot of people are really angry about the Pie situation, but I guarantee you probably 80% of big league managers would do the same thing in his position (that being on a 110M dollar budget team expected to win in the NL). A lot of people are upset about the Rich Hill situation, but he walked 18 in 19 innings. That's obviously not gonna fly, and working out control problems in AAA is no more difficult, and probably easier, than doing so in the majors. With Hill, Lou had the option to send him down. He might well like to send other guys down, but he doesn't have that option because of ML rules.

 

Saying Lou is as bad or worse than Dusty is plain ludicrous. Lou doesn't abuse his starters like Dusty did. I think part of the reason Z has started so well this year is because last year was the first in his career when he wasn't absolutely ridden into the ground by Baker. Lou doesn't play Jacque Jones all year because of his contract or who he is. He benches guys that struggle because he wants production out of his lineup. Sometimes that means rookies get benched for guys that arguably shouldn't even be on the roster. Other times it means benching a guy making quite a bit of money to give a young player a shot, as he did last year with Theriot and Fontenot (he also benched them when they struggled, he certainly doesn't appear to me to play favorites). He also benched Jones to give Pie a shot on more than one occasion. Pie played terribly. 117 ABs obviously isn't a huge amount, but it's a damn lot more than most young players got during Baker's tenure.

 

Let's be realistic, nobody is going to agree with every call the manager makes. We can always find fault in hindsight. The only things that I really don't like about Lou are that he overuses a few guys in his bullpen, especially using the best players in non critical situations, and the fact that he runs too much in general but especially in front of Lee and Ramirez. All in all, I'm satisfied with Lou, a lot more than I thought I would be when he was hired. You don't reverse a several year trend of being among the worst teams in baseball in OBP and patience to one of the best by complete accident. To those who are wondering if they'd rather have Baker back, I invite you to follow the Reds for a couple weeks and see what you think.

[RynoRules]

 

Let's be realistic, nobody is going to agree with every call the manager makes. We can always find fault in hindsight. The only things that I really don't like about Lou are that he overuses a few guys in his bullpen, especially using the best players in non critical situations, and the fact that he runs too much in general but especially in front of Lee and Ramirez. All in all, I'm satisfied with Lou, a lot more than I thought I would be when he was hired. You don't reverse a several year trend of being among the worst teams in baseball in OBP and patience to one of the best by complete accident.

 

This.

[TruffleShuffle]

117 ABs obviously isn't a huge amount, but it's a damn lot more than most young players got during Baker's tenure.

 

untrue.

 

Let's be realistic, nobody is going to agree with every call the manager makes. We can always find fault in hindsight. The only things that I really don't like about Lou are that he overuses a few guys in his bullpen, especially using the best players in non critical situations, and the fact that he runs too much in general but especially in front of Lee and Ramirez. All in all, I'm satisfied with Lou, a lot more than I thought I would be when he was hired. You don't reverse a several year trend of being among the worst teams in baseball in OBP and patience to one of the best by complete accident. To those who are wondering if they'd rather have Baker back, I invite you to follow the Reds for a couple weeks and see what you think.

 

i agree with most of this. lou does a relatively good job as far as overall philosophy, but his in-game decisions are bad. he also needs to remember that the season is 162 games long, and you want your guys to not be completely out of gas in october.

[Keener98]

I love how people who criticize Lou always gets told we do it in hindsight, although those of us complaining do it as the move is being made. Plain and simple the Johnson/Pie situation is undefensible. Johnson has been worse than Pie against rightys, yet he continues to start.