Lou Pinella, What the hell are you doing?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I have to wonder that in a game where we needed 4 IP out of the bullpen, and had used 4 relievers yesterday(and Marmol and Wood had both thrown in 5 of 8 games), why Eyre, who has thrown less than 30 pitches in the past week, wasn't used.

 

That's the part I don't understand. I was understand the bullpen usage until the 9th. In the 9th, Eyre needed to be brought in to face the same left-handers that Cotts faced in the 7th. No need to throw Marmol out there for more than the 2 outs he got in the 8th when you have a great situation for a left-hander to pitch.

 

Betcha anything he was trying to get Marmol the save.

 

Marmol did get the hold, funnily enough.

[SouthSideRyan]

As I said in the game thread, Lou has to be one of the five worst managers in baseball.

 

Well we are 16 games over .500 so I think anyone who complains constantly or says something like what's above might want to take the results into account. The above statement would mean that at least 24 other managers would have us more than 16 games above .500. Has Lou made mistakes of course and I'm mad when they happen but I don't constantly criticize a guy who has winning.

 

Charlie Manuel, Clint Hurdle, Grady Little, Phil Garner, etc.

 

All horrendous managers who took their teams to the playoffs.

[CubbieBum]

As I said in the game thread, Lou has to be one of the five worst managers in baseball.

 

Well we are 16 games over .500 so I think anyone who complains constantly or says something like what's above might want to take the results into account. The above statement would mean that at least 24 other managers would have us more than 16 games above .500. Has Lou made mistakes of course and I'm mad when they happen but I don't constantly criticize a guy who has winning.

 

Charlie Manuel, Clint Hurdle, Grady Little, Phil Garner, etc.

 

All horrendous managers who took their teams to the playoffs.

 

Lou is a two time manager of the year winner, has won a world series, has a career record over .500, and is I believe in the top 20 for wins he's not a horrendous manager. The team is winning, they are getting a long better than they have in a long time. Has Lou made some game mistakes yes but every manager does. His managerial style is working. Not all a manager does is game time decisions.

[Electron Blue]

As I said in the game thread, Lou has to be one of the five worst managers in baseball.

 

Well we are 16 games over .500 so I think anyone who complains constantly or says something like what's above might want to take the results into account. The above statement would mean that at least 24 other managers would have us more than 16 games above .500. Has Lou made mistakes of course and I'm mad when they happen but I don't constantly criticize a guy who has winning.

 

Charlie Manuel, Clint Hurdle, Grady Little, Phil Garner, etc.

 

All horrendous managers who took their teams to the playoffs.

 

Dusty Baker.

[Jazz]

As I said in the game thread, Lou has to be one of the five worst managers in baseball.

 

Well we are 16 games over .500 so I think anyone who complains constantly or says something like what's above might want to take the results into account. The above statement would mean that at least 24 other managers would have us more than 16 games above .500. Has Lou made mistakes of course and I'm mad when they happen but I don't constantly criticize a guy who has winning.

 

Charlie Manuel, Clint Hurdle, Grady Little, Phil Garner, etc.

 

All horrendous managers who took their teams to the playoffs.

 

Lou is a two time manager of the year winner, has won a world series, has a career record over .500, and is I believe in the top 20 for wins he's not a horrendous manager. The team is winning, they are getting a long better than they have in a long time. Has Lou made some game mistakes yes but every manager does. His managerial style is working. Not all a manager does is game time decisions.

 

Even with all of that being true, I will say this. If he continues this kind of misuse of the bullpen, I don't care who would be better or worse, we're going to have a depleted pitching staff with a few injured players, and only one person to blame.

[SouthSideRyan]

As I said in the game thread, Lou has to be one of the five worst managers in baseball.

 

Well we are 16 games over .500 so I think anyone who complains constantly or says something like what's above might want to take the results into account. The above statement would mean that at least 24 other managers would have us more than 16 games above .500. Has Lou made mistakes of course and I'm mad when they happen but I don't constantly criticize a guy who has winning.

 

Charlie Manuel, Clint Hurdle, Grady Little, Phil Garner, etc.

 

All horrendous managers who took their teams to the playoffs.

 

Lou is a two time manager of the year winner, has won a world series, has a career record over .500, and is I believe in the top 20 for wins he's not a horrendous manager. The team is winning, they are getting a long better than they have in a long time. Has Lou made some game mistakes yes but every manager does. His managerial style is working. Not all a manager does is game time decisions.

 

You could say almost all the same things about Dusty Baker when his teams were winning. I'm not trying to say Lou is worse/as bad as Dusty, or necessarily agreeing that he's a bottom 5 manager. My point is, managers might be the one area in baseball where you can't say look at the stats.

 

I'm absolutely thrilled with the way the team is playing right now, and enjoying every minute, but Lou's ADD managing style is a cause for concern whether we're up 15 games or tied in September.

[Outshined_One]

Bob Brenly was an atrocious manager. He won a WS.

[CubbieBum]

Bob Brenly was an atrocious manager. He won a WS.

 

Bob Brenly didn't have the decades of success to show like Lou does. And we don't have Schilling and Randy Johnson at their primes either.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Bob Brenly was an atrocious manager. He won a WS.

 

Bob Brenly didn't have the decades of success to show like Lou does. And we don't have Schilling and Randy Johnson at their primes either.

 

Doesn't Dusty Baker have a better career winning percentage?

[CubbieBum]

Bob Brenly was an atrocious manager. He won a WS.

 

Bob Brenly didn't have the decades of success to show like Lou does. And we don't have Schilling and Randy Johnson at their primes either.

 

Doesn't Dusty Baker have a better career winning percentage?

 

Are we seriously comparing Lou to Dusty now. Yes for the record Dusty does nad he was great in San Francisco, should have never left.

 

I guess this board has to have someone to complain about no matter how well we are doing. Theriot at the beginning of the season (calling for his job despite batting .330 because cedeno was batting .350) and since we are winning and everyone we expect to do well is we must complain about the manager of the best team in baseball currently.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

We've already seen an example of how Marmol can fall apart late in the season when overused.

 

I see no reason not to be afraid of that again.

[CubbieBum]

We've already seen an example of how Marmol can fall apart late in the season when overused.

 

I see no reason not to be afraid of that again.

 

I'm afraid of it too but I'm not going around calling Lou one of the worst managers in the league when we have the best record in the league.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

We've already seen an example of how Marmol can fall apart late in the season when overused.

 

I see no reason not to be afraid of that again.

 

I'm afraid of it too but I'm not going around calling Lou one of the worst managers in the league when we have the best record in the league.

 

That seems odd to me. The best team in the league can't have one of the worst at something?

 

I'd say the 2004 team was among the best in the league, and they had the worst third-base coach in history.

[CubbieBum]

We've already seen an example of how Marmol can fall apart late in the season when overused.

 

I see no reason not to be afraid of that again.

 

I'm afraid of it too but I'm not going around calling Lou one of the worst managers in the league when we have the best record in the league.

 

That seems odd to me. The best team in the league can't have one of the worst at something?

 

I'd say the 2004 team was among the best in the league, and they had the worst third-base coach in history.

 

who said they can't have one of the worst anything in history? Some things you can egt away with. Like our CF's haven't been great this year. One thing you can't get away with and still have the best record in baseball is have a horrible manager. You can make playoffs with a abd manager if the talent on the team is good enough, but plenty of people seem to criticize our GM as well so. You can't have a bad GM and bad manager and still be a great team. Semms to me Lou is doing something right (and Hendry for that matter).

[NCCubFan]

We've already seen an example of how Marmol can fall apart late in the season when overused.

 

I see no reason not to be afraid of that again.

 

I'm afraid of it too but I'm not going around calling Lou one of the worst managers in the league when we have the best record in the league.

In all baseball, not just in the league.

[Guest]

We've already seen an example of how Marmol can fall apart late in the season when overused.

 

I see no reason not to be afraid of that again.

 

I'm afraid of it too but I'm not going around calling Lou one of the worst managers in the league when we have the best record in the league.

 

That seems odd to me. The best team in the league can't have one of the worst at something?

 

I'd say the 2004 team was among the best in the league, and they had the worst third-base coach in history.

 

who said they can't have one of the worst anything in history? Some things you can egt away with. Like our CF's haven't been great this year. One thing you can't get away with and still have the best record in baseball is have a horrible manager. You can make playoffs with a abd manager if the talent on the team is good enough, but plenty of people seem to criticize our GM as well so. You can't have a bad GM and bad manager and still be a great team. Semms to me Lou is doing something right (and Hendry for that matter).

 

Sure you can get away with a horrible manager and have the best record in baseball.

[Tyrant]

As I said in the game thread, Lou has to be one of the five worst managers in baseball.

 

It's fine to criticize the Cubs, but this is way over the top.

[Tyrant]

We've already seen an example of how Marmol can fall apart late in the season when overused.

 

I see no reason not to be afraid of that again.

 

When did Marmol fall apart late in the season? It certainly wasn't last year.

[Tracer Bullet]

We've already seen an example of how Marmol can fall apart late in the season when overused.

 

I see no reason not to be afraid of that again.

 

I'm afraid of it too but I'm not going around calling Lou one of the worst managers in the league when we have the best record in the league.

 

That seems odd to me. The best team in the league can't have one of the worst at something?

 

I'd say the 2004 team was among the best in the league, and they had the worst third-base coach in history.

 

who said they can't have one of the worst anything in history? Some things you can egt away with. Like our CF's haven't been great this year. One thing you can't get away with and still have the best record in baseball is have a horrible manager. You can make playoffs with a abd manager if the talent on the team is good enough, but plenty of people seem to criticize our GM as well so. You can't have a bad GM and bad manager and still be a great team. Semms to me Lou is doing something right (and Hendry for that matter).

 

It's hard to argue that Lou hasn't cost us runs over the course of the season with his in-game moves. Whether those lost runs have cost us wins is a game-by-game issue, I think. But his use of his pitching staff, Marmol and Marquis especially, has put us at risk of losing future games. His inability to pry Marquis from the rotation has almost certainly cost us games, though we've overcome some mediocre or worse starts by Marquis to get a W.

 

We've lost 5 of his last 7 starts, 5 of which were bad performances by Marquis (we lost one of his good starts and overcame one of his bad ones). To be fair, he hasn't gotten a ton of run support lately (2, 7, 3, 3, 4, 4, 8), but he also has been taxing the pen as he's only gotten at least 6 IP in 2 of those starts. Hard to say, but I think we could have gotten at least 1 W with a different SP (we scored 7 runs in 1 and lost, Jason went 5 and got hammered) and even if we don't get more Ws, we should at least have a starter that could have gotten us an inning or two more in most of his starts.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

We've already seen an example of how Marmol can fall apart late in the season when overused.

 

I see no reason not to be afraid of that again.

 

When did Marmol fall apart late in the season? It certainly wasn't last year.

 

Didn't he get rocked in the playoffs? I don't think that's necessarily a good argument for "Marmol's arm is going to wear down", but I think that's the reference.

[Tyrant]

We've already seen an example of how Marmol can fall apart late in the season when overused.

 

I see no reason not to be afraid of that again.

 

When did Marmol fall apart late in the season? It certainly wasn't last year.

 

Didn't he get rocked in the playoffs? I don't think that's necessarily a good argument for "Marmol's arm is going to wear down", but I think that's the reference.

 

He gave up three runs in three innings. I'm not sure that's evidence of him wearing down, considering he had posted a 1.26 ERA in September.

[Choonch]

Lou's bullpen usage = Dusty's abuse on the SP's.

 

We have little chance of doing any damage in October without a healthy Carlos Marmol. If Lou continues at this rate, there is no way Carlos makes it through the regular season without an injury. He refuses to give him a day off, even when the team has 4-5-6 run leads. It's extremely, extremely frustrating. :banghead: :banghead:

[Keener98]

Lou's bullpen usage = Dusty's abuse on the SP's.

 

We have little chance of doing any damage in October without a healthy Carlos Marmol. If Lou continues at this rate, there is no way Carlos makes it through the regular season without an injury. He refuses to give him a day off, even when the team has 4-5-6 run leads. It's extremely, extremely frustrating. :banghead: :banghead:

 

At this point, I wish Marmol would stub his toe or something and take about a week to heal up.

[Choonch]

Lou's bullpen usage = Dusty's abuse on the SP's.

 

We have little chance of doing any damage in October without a healthy Carlos Marmol. If Lou continues at this rate, there is no way Carlos makes it through the regular season without an injury. He refuses to give him a day off, even when the team has 4-5-6 run leads. It's extremely, extremely frustrating. :banghead: :banghead:

 

At this point, I wish Marmol would stub his toe or something and take about a week to heal up.

 

Agreed. We need to hit a stretch where we use Marmol 2x/week for a couple of weeks. Let the other guys pitch in the 8th and if we lose, we lose. This wouldn't be a problem, even if Marmol was used in only 1-2 run ballgames, but Lou continues to send him out in the late innings, no matter what the lead is.

[Derwood]

so when the Cubs are good we can't complain about anything. do I have this right? don't want to upset anyone's delicate sensibilities