Is it time to make Cedeno a starter?

[brinoch]

As much as I hate to say this, there's as much chance that Ryan has figured it out as Ronny. Hard to say just yet since the sample's pretty small. Let's play them both and see how they do.

[St.Paul Cub]

I wouldn't be surprised if both Theriot and Cedeno start at SS and 2B with Soriano coming back and DeRosa turning into the supersub that the team envisioned with picking up Brian Roberts, at least until one of them cools off and DeRosa moves back to 2B. Not saying that's the ideal scenario, but something I wouldn't be surprised by.

[Colin Wyers]

As much as I hate to say this, there's as much chance that Ryan has figured it out as Ronny. Hard to say just yet since the sample's pretty small. Let's play them both and see how they do.

 

It is not, in fact, just as likely for a 28-year-old player to have a breakout season as it is for a 25-year-old. Now you're absolutely right about the sample sizes involved here being pretty meaningless, but the fact of the matter is that Cedeno has a higher ceiling; it's simply not a NEW fact.

[Rob]

As much as I hate to say this, there's as much chance that Ryan has figured it out as Ronny. Hard to say just yet since the sample's pretty small. Let's play them both and see how they do.

 

Even if Theriot figures it out and plays at 100% of his ceiling, is he better than Cedeno playing at 90% of his?

[David]

Cue CubinNY claiming that talk of "ceilings" is nonsense.

 

 

How cool is it that Colin Wyers showed up in this thread?

[Jehrico]

Classic Tranny.

Did you just call him a Tranny? :lol:

[Chocolate Milk]

i end up debating this over lots of threads and posts because people like you continually suggest that i have a weird affinity for theriot or a prejudice against cedeno.

People suggest this because it is true.

[TruffleShuffle]

i end up debating this over lots of threads and posts because people like you continually suggest that i have a weird affinity for theriot or a prejudice against cedeno.

People suggest this because it is true.

 

yeah you got me, i hate those lazy latin americans and i love me some gritty white guys

[Chocolate Milk]

i end up debating this over lots of threads and posts because people like you continually suggest that i have a weird affinity for theriot or a prejudice against cedeno.

People suggest this because it is true.

 

yeah you got me, i hate those lazy latin americans and i love me some gritty white guys

It sure sounds like it.

[Guest]

i end up debating this over lots of threads and posts because people like you continually suggest that i have a weird affinity for theriot or a prejudice against cedeno.

People suggest this because it is true.

 

yeah you got me, i hate those lazy latin americans and i love me some gritty white guys

 

It really doesn't sound like you apply the same standards to Cedeño as you do Pie.

[TruffleShuffle]

i end up debating this over lots of threads and posts because people like you continually suggest that i have a weird affinity for theriot or a prejudice against cedeno.

People suggest this because it is true.

 

yeah you got me, i hate those lazy latin americans and i love me some gritty white guys

 

It really doesn't sound like you apply the same standards to Cedeño as you do Pie.

 

pie hasn't had a season as a full-time starter in the big leagues.

[CubinNY]

i end up debating this over lots of threads and posts because people like you continually suggest that i have a weird affinity for theriot or a prejudice against cedeno.

People suggest this because it is true.

 

yeah you got me, i hate those lazy latin americans and i love me some gritty white guys

 

It really doesn't sound like you apply the same standards to Cedeño as you do Pie.

 

pie hasn't had a season as a full-time starter in the big leagues.

Neither has Cedeno.

[TruffleShuffle]

i end up debating this over lots of threads and posts because people like you continually suggest that i have a weird affinity for theriot or a prejudice against cedeno.

People suggest this because it is true.

 

yeah you got me, i hate those lazy latin americans and i love me some gritty white guys

 

It really doesn't sound like you apply the same standards to Cedeño as you do Pie.

 

pie hasn't had a season as a full-time starter in the big leagues.

Neither has Cedeno.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?statsId=7527&year=2006

[Tracer Bullet]

i end up debating this over lots of threads and posts because people like you continually suggest that i have a weird affinity for theriot or a prejudice against cedeno.

People suggest this because it is true.

 

yeah you got me, i hate those lazy latin americans and i love me some gritty white guys

 

It really doesn't sound like you apply the same standards to Cedeño as you do Pie.

 

pie hasn't had a season as a full-time starter in the big leagues.

 

So the 300 AB difference, at least to you, is significant enough to justify saying Cedeno is a bust and Pie should be given the full time starting gig?

[SouthSideRyan]

Classic Tranny.

Did you just call him a Tranny? :lol:

 

I love your liberal use of it Raisin. Well done.

[Mizzou]

i end up debating this over lots of threads and posts because people like you continually suggest that i have a weird affinity for theriot or a prejudice against cedeno.

People suggest this because it is true.

 

yeah you got me, i hate those lazy latin americans and i love me some gritty white guys

 

It really doesn't sound like you apply the same standards to Cedeño as you do Pie.

 

pie hasn't had a season as a full-time starter in the big leagues.

Neither has Cedeno.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?statsId=7527&year=2006

He only played in 151 games that year... clearly not a full year.

[imb]

hey truffle, is the woman's intuition that's telling you that Cedeno will never improve above his age 23 season the same one that told you that Eric Patterson was a future mlb stud?

[Chocolate Milk]

i end up debating this over lots of threads and posts because people like you continually suggest that i have a weird affinity for theriot or a prejudice against cedeno.

People suggest this because it is true.

 

yeah you got me, i hate those lazy latin americans and i love me some gritty white guys

 

It really doesn't sound like you apply the same standards to Cedeño as you do Pie.

 

pie hasn't had a season as a full-time starter in the big leagues.

I don't get it. Didn't Theriot have a full season of suckitude (at age 27 no less)? So why Theriot over Cedeno?

 

"I don't like Cedeno because two years ago he had a .610 OPS. I prefer Theriot who had a .672 OPS last year." Pretty silly, no?

[Abe Frohman]

Cedeno had another great game tonight. A couple hits, a walk, and a perfectly executed bunt. I am impressed with his execution. The kid is looking good.

 

Theriot had a big hit too. This is a great problem to have. This team is playing unconscious right now. I love this.

[brinoch]

As much as I hate to say this, there's as much chance that Ryan has figured it out as Ronny. Hard to say just yet since the sample's pretty small. Let's play them both and see how they do.

 

It is not, in fact, just as likely for a 28-year-old player to have a breakout season as it is for a 25-year-old. Now you're absolutely right about the sample sizes involved here being pretty meaningless, but the fact of the matter is that Cedeno has a higher ceiling; it's simply not a NEW fact.

 

First of all, welcome to the Board.

 

Now that you're here, you not be aware of this, but I've been a long time supporter of Cedeno. I wanted him to start over Theriot all offseason. However, with Soriano out, why is it verboten to play both Cedeno and Theriot? It's not. In fact, it's almost certainly the best move for the team given Murton's struggles. I just don't think there's any reason to pitch a fit until that decision is forced on us.

 

Age 28 seasons are typically among the peak years for a player -- Theriot could certainly be having a break-out season. I'd suggest that a 28 year old having a great season after a sub-par Age 27 season isn't unheard of. Given that 25 is pre-peak and 28 is among the peak years, I believe it is more likely for a 28 year-old than a 25 year-old to have a break-out season. I could be wrong, of course, but that's my recollection.

 

I absolutely agree that Cedeno has higher ceiling. No question about it (in my mind). And, actually, it is Ronny's ceiling and his likely progression as a player making him more important, long-term, to the Cubs than Theriot. Even though Ryan and Ronny are providing roughly similar production, Cedeno is likely to improve and become a better player while Theriot is arguably at his peak.

 

All that said, the sample sizes are still too small to draw any meaningful conclusions.

[brinoch]

As much as I hate to say this, there's as much chance that Ryan has figured it out as Ronny. Hard to say just yet since the sample's pretty small. Let's play them both and see how they do.

 

Even if Theriot figures it out and plays at 100% of his ceiling, is he better than Cedeno playing at 90% of his?

 

No way to tell because who the hell knows their ceilings. But if you trust PECOTA (and I personally do), I'd suggest that the answer is obvious and a lot lower than Cedeno at 90%.

[TruffleShuffle]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?statsId=7527&year=2006

He only played in 151 games that year... clearly not a full year.

 

are you kidding? are we arguing that cedeno hasn't really had a real shot in the majors because he had a few days off in 2006? if that's the case, then theriot really didn't get a shot last year, so we should give him a full season in 2008 to prove that he's good enough.

 

So the 300 AB difference, at least to you, is significant enough to justify saying Cedeno is a bust and Pie should be given the full time starting gig?

 

reading comprehension is really suffering in this country. first of all, i didn't say that i am convinced that cedeno is a bust, i just don't think he will be a good player. second, there is a difference of about 450 PAs between pie and cedeno, not 300. third, look at the usage patterns:

 

Pie @ age 22:

-started the season in the minors

-called up to the big club, starter for 2 weeks

-mainly a bench player for 1.5 weeks

-farmed out to iowa for a month

-called up to the big club, regular playing time, mainly starting, for 3 weeks

-mainly a bench player for 2 weeks

-farmed out for another month

-called up for final 2 months, little to no playing time

 

Pie @ age 23:

-regular playing time for 4 games

-spot starts and pinch hitting after that

 

Cedeno @ age 22:

-mainly and defensive replacements spot starts during a handful of call-ups

 

Cedeno @ age 23:

-started 90 percent of the games at shortstop for 6 months

 

 

so one guy has had 450 more PAs and a season in which he's started 90% of the games; the other guy's longest stretch of consistent playing time was 3 weeks last season. how on earth can anyone think these situations are pretty much equal?

[TruffleShuffle]

hey truffle, is the woman's intuition

 

i'm actually a male. figured you would've picked up on that.

[David]

are you kidding? are we arguing that cedeno hasn't really had a real shot in the majors because he had a few days off in 2006? if that's the case, then theriot really didn't get a shot last year, so we should give him a full season in 2008 to prove that he's good enough.

 

Actually, I'm about 100% sure that Mizzou was kidding.

[sneakypower]

you're looking too closely at the numbers in this case. his swing and approach is enormously different than it was in 06 and the start of 07. he's not lunging after every pitch indiscriminately. but if you were to look at the numbers, his BB:K in AAA last year, the AFL and the majors thus far this season have all been a dramatic improvement (70:99 combined) from his 06 atrocities.