Re: Gammons: Cubs could get Crisp soon

[Backtobanks]

BTW, did Gammons seem to think this trade was a good idea? Just wondering if he's off his rocker yet.

 

Gammons said that Lou is not happy with Pie and his .160 AVG or something to that extent, and went on to say that Crisp is the best defensive center fielder in baseball and that he could be a solution for the Cubs leadoff problem. Overall Gammons acted like it would be a good deal for the Cubs as a second option with Roberts being the first.

 

Ok, that makes me feel better. It sounds like Gammons is speculating here, and I think there are several reasons why his speculation is way off:

 

1) Crisp hasn't started the season that well

2) He's day to day with a hamstring injury. Lou's already frustrated enough with Soriano's leg injuries. He isn't going to want to acquire somebody with a balky hamstring and an injury history.

3) Lou is working with Pie considerably, and from all his quotes seems to indicate that he knows that Pie would continue to destroy the ball if sent down (with all his quotes about how he just wants to translate the great production every time he's at AAA), thus making it useless to send him down. They're certainly not going to do anything with Pie until this week of hands on coaching is over and he's given another chance in the field.

 

After Johnson's big game yesterday, Pie's chances of playing regularly are just about gone. Anytime Pie plays, he better get two hits or he'll be back on the bench.

[wekse]

christ on a stick, this would be stupid!

[ctcf]

BTW, did Gammons seem to think this trade was a good idea? Just wondering if he's off his rocker yet.

 

Gammons said that Lou is not happy with Pie and his .160 AVG or something to that extent, and went on to say that Crisp is the best defensive center fielder in baseball and that he could be a solution for the Cubs leadoff problem. Overall Gammons acted like it would be a good deal for the Cubs as a second option with Roberts being the first.

 

Ok, that makes me feel better. It sounds like Gammons is speculating here, and I think there are several reasons why his speculation is way off:

 

1) Crisp hasn't started the season that well

2) He's day to day with a hamstring injury. Lou's already frustrated enough with Soriano's leg injuries. He isn't going to want to acquire somebody with a balky hamstring and an injury history.

3) Lou is working with Pie considerably, and from all his quotes seems to indicate that he knows that Pie would continue to destroy the ball if sent down (with all his quotes about how he just wants to translate the great production every time he's at AAA), thus making it useless to send him down. They're certainly not going to do anything with Pie until this week of hands on coaching is over and he's given another chance in the field.

 

After Johnson's big game yesterday, Pie's chances of playing regularly are just about gone. Anytime Pie plays, he better get two hits or he'll be back on the bench.

 

That would seem to go against the only legitimate info we've heard however...

[BigbadB]

It was only a matter of time before this trade rumor returned. Boston is ready to go with Ellsbury full time, and Crisp's value is next to nil at this point.

 

Yet, that won't stop Hendry from getting into a bidding war with himself and way overpaying.

 

Considering Crisp's contract, his production level, injury concerns and his rank on the current depth chart, a fair offer would be Josh Kroeger and NOTHING more.

 

Also, anyone see how crappy Marlon Byrd has been playing. Look out, Texas might lower their demands to "just" Matt Murton and Hendry will feel like he got himself a pretty good deal. :roll:

[mul21]

It was only a matter of time before this trade rumor returned. Boston is ready to go with Ellsbury full time, and Crisp's value is next to nil at this point.

 

Yet, that won't stop Hendry from getting into a bidding war with himself and way overpaying.

 

Considering Crisp's contract, his production level, injury concerns and his rank on the current depth chart, a fair offer would be Josh Kroeger and NOTHING more.

 

Also, anyone see how crappy Marlon Byrd has been playing. Look out, Texas might lower their demands to "just" Matt Murton and Hendry will feel like he got himself a pretty good deal. :roll:

 

I think he just went on the DL yesterday, didn't he?

[RedFlash]

It was only a matter of time before this trade rumor returned. Boston is ready to go with Ellsbury full time, and Crisp's value is next to nil at this point.

 

Tell me about it. How is it that Boston is ready to move on to Ellsbury, and yet the Cubs can't wait to move Pie back to Iowa?

[ctcf]

It was only a matter of time before this trade rumor returned. Boston is ready to go with Ellsbury full time, and Crisp's value is next to nil at this point.

 

Tell me about it. How is it that Boston is ready to move on to Ellsbury, and yet the Cubs can't wait to move Pie back to Iowa?

 

Maybe because at least Ellsbury's OBP is close to .400.

 

Also, the Cubs have shown no signs of wanting move Pie back to Iowa, if they did I'm guessing Lou wouldn't be working with him one on one.

 

Man hyperbole is fun!

[LeftCoastCubFan]

christ on a stick

Do you find these in the frozen aisle next to the popesicles?

[RedFlash]

It was only a matter of time before this trade rumor returned. Boston is ready to go with Ellsbury full time, and Crisp's value is next to nil at this point.

 

Tell me about it. How is it that Boston is ready to move on to Ellsbury, and yet the Cubs can't wait to move Pie back to Iowa?

 

Maybe because at least Ellsbury's OBP is close to .400.

 

Also, the Cubs have shown no signs of wanting move Pie back to Iowa, if they did I'm guessing Lou wouldn't be working with him one on one.

 

Man hyperbole is fun!

 

And if the Cubs acquire Crisp, where do you think Pie will end up? If the Cubs acquired Crisp, I promise Pie will be back at AAA.

[shnsajax]

It was only a matter of time before this trade rumor returned. Boston is ready to go with Ellsbury full time, and Crisp's value is next to nil at this point.

 

Tell me about it. How is it that Boston is ready to move on to Ellsbury, and yet the Cubs can't wait to move Pie back to Iowa?

 

Maybe because at least Ellsbury's OBP is close to .400.

 

Also, the Cubs have shown no signs of wanting move Pie back to Iowa, if they did I'm guessing Lou wouldn't be working with him one on one.

 

Man hyperbole is fun!

 

And if the Cubs acquire Crisp, where do you think Pie will end up? If the Cubs acquired Crisp, I promise Pie will be back at AAA.

 

He maybe should even though its not ideal. Ellsbury is a better prospect than Pie, and won't hurt the team even when he struggles at the plate with his OBP. If Pie doesn't hit he is invisible offensively right now. If the Cubs had a legit SS, going with Pie would be much easier to swallow through his struggles.

[Vanilla Ice]

maybe if we got lowrie it would be OK

[ctcf]

It was only a matter of time before this trade rumor returned. Boston is ready to go with Ellsbury full time, and Crisp's value is next to nil at this point.

 

Tell me about it. How is it that Boston is ready to move on to Ellsbury, and yet the Cubs can't wait to move Pie back to Iowa?

 

Maybe because at least Ellsbury's OBP is close to .400.

 

Also, the Cubs have shown no signs of wanting move Pie back to Iowa, if they did I'm guessing Lou wouldn't be working with him one on one.

 

Man hyperbole is fun!

 

And if the Cubs acquire Crisp, where do you think Pie will end up? If the Cubs acquired Crisp, I promise Pie will be back at AAA.

 

That would require me to believe that Gammons, who has been dead wrong more times than I care to count, is right. Also the Cubs are going to trade for him despite already signing a more than adequate alternative who is actually over producing? Yea sure...

 

I know its really cool to assume Hendry has absolutely no idea what hes doing around here but I'm certainly not afraid to give him enough credit to believe that he's not really interested in Crisp. That rumor didn't even get a quick blurb on Rotoworld for crying out loud.

[CyHawk_Cub]

How ironic....I want Pie to get the majority of AB's (even though I've expressed concern about his plate approach thus far); I haven't been happy w/ RJ getting so many AB's, but now we need RJ to rake to maybe reinforce the fact that getting Crisp would be redundant, but RJ raking further plants Pie on the bench!! Arghh; typical Cubs bizarro world.

 

Trading Gallagher+ (hell, Gallagher alone) for Crisp would be almost monumentally stupid, which means that the Cubs will probably do it

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Pie is overmatched; SERIOUSLY overmatched. He needs to go to AAA, he is not helping the team. He has had a number of ABs where he looked worse than Corey EVER did, and that's saying something. At least Patterson would occasionally drive the ball and could steal a base seemingly at will.

 

I do agree Crisp is not desirable though. Johnson looks like he has a clue, fundamentally sound, a nice 4th OF--but if the Cubs turn to him full time it'll expose his warts just as happened with Angel Pagan last year.

 

So, what about Reggie Willits as a stop-gap to split time with Johnson, while Pie figures things out in Iowa? Unlike Crisp, Willits should come cheap; LAA has plenty of OF-ers and last I knew, Willits was back in AAA. True, he has even less SLG than Theriot--and that's saying something. But he has a terrific eye and can run the bases. Would a Johnson/Willits platoon be so bad? (Willits is a switch hitter)

[RedFlash]

Pie is overmatched; SERIOUSLY overmatched. He needs to go to AAA, he is not helping the team. He has had a number of ABs where he looked worse than Corey EVER did, and that's saying something. At least Patterson would occasionally drive the ball and could steal a base seemingly at will.

 

I do agree Crisp is not desirable though. Johnson looks like he has a clue, fundamentally sound, a nice 4th OF--but if the Cubs turn to him full time it'll expose his warts just as happened with Angel Pagan last year.

 

So, what about Reggie Willits as a stop-gap to split time with Johnson, while Pie figures things out in Iowa? Unlike Crisp, Willits should come cheap; LAA has plenty of OF-ers and last I knew, Willits was back in AAA. True, he has even less SLG than Theriot--and that's saying something. But he has a terrific eye and can run the bases. Would a Johnson/Willits platoon be so bad? (Willits is a switch hitter)

 

We're talking about the Cubs, and logic don't always comes up in the organization.

[XZero771679666304]

Pie is overmatched; SERIOUSLY overmatched. He needs to go to AAA, he is not helping the team. He has had a number of ABs where he looked worse than Corey EVER did, and that's saying something. At least Patterson would occasionally drive the ball and could steal a base seemingly at will.

 

I do agree Crisp is not desirable though. Johnson looks like he has a clue, fundamentally sound, a nice 4th OF--but if the Cubs turn to him full time it'll expose his warts just as happened with Angel Pagan last year.

 

So, what about Reggie Willits as a stop-gap to split time with Johnson, while Pie figures things out in Iowa? Unlike Crisp, Willits should come cheap; LAA has plenty of OF-ers and last I knew, Willits was back in AAA. True, he has even less SLG than Theriot--and that's saying something. But he has a terrific eye and can run the bases. Would a Johnson/Willits platoon be so bad? (Willits is a switch hitter)

 

I'm not convinced Johnson would be terribly exposed. He certainly is better against LHP, but the guy did OPS .869 in nearly 500 AB's in 2006, and .744 in 400 AB's in 2005. (if I am not mistaken, he poor 2007 can be attributed to injury) His career OPS of .754 would be acceptable in CF, IMO.

 

He's certainly a better bet than Angel Pagan was.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

The thing about Pagan is that he was (a) overused, and (b) used incorrectly. The guy could/can rake against LHP, but he's just a judy slap hitter from the left side. Having said that, he was no great shakes in the field, I'm satisfied with what amounts to a swap for Johnson.

[Amazing_Grace]

Well, since Gammons said it, it's almost certain to not involve the players named. Gallagher AND another prospect for Crisp. I wouldn't trade Gallagher straight up for Crisp. The guy's highest career OBP over a full season is .345, with his highest OPS being .810. That isn't much better than having Theriot leadoff, and that's assuming he plays at his best. If we were going to settle for that, why not keep Jones around, who at least hits for more power while he's not getting on base. If the Cubs have decided not to ride it out with Pie, why not just sign Lofton, platoon him with Johnson, and give up nobody. Hell, Johnson isn't really that much of a CF anyway. If we're going to live with subpar defense in CF, then move Kosuke to CF, put DeRosa in RF, and offer the O's Pie in addition to whatever else the Roberts deal included.

[Sammy Sofa]

Johnson was mediocre at best career numbers against righties.

 

Pie has nothing left to prove in the minors.

 

Most young players need to go through growing pains as they adjust to the majors. Pie is going to learn next to nothing getting sporadic starts and late inning replacements here or there. The Cubs need to let him work it out and try and adjust for an extended period of time, or they need to trade him while he still has significant value. The team can afford to have one fulltime player on the roster learning the ropes, especialy if they do the smart thing and upgrade at SS.

[Amazing_Grace]

Johnson was mediocre at best career numbers against righties.

 

Pie has nothing left to prove in the minors.

 

Most young players need to go through growing pains as they adjust to the majors. Pie is going to learn next to nothing getting sporadic starts and late inning replacements here or there. The Cubs need to let him work it out and try and adjust for an extended period of time, or they need to trade him while he still has significant value. The team can afford to have one fulltime player on the roster learning the ropes, especialy if they do the smart thing and upgrade at SS.

 

The problem is and was that there simply are no realistic options for upgrading SS. Who are we going to trade for that is going to produce at a level that would allow us to put an automatic out in the lineup for two plus months. I'm leaning toward trading Pie. He's the type of player that is hard for a contending team to break in because, as has been stated over and over, he is the type of player that is going to struggle for several months at least before he starts producing. If he's not going to be given the chance, he needs to be traded NOW, while he still has value. The Cubs gain nothing putting him on the bench and he's already destroyed AAA so there's no point in sending him down.

[CubinNY]

christ on a stick, this would be stupid!

Christ on a stick

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Pie's had more than 200 PAs in the majors by now. The two-month adjustment period should be over, and I expect him to start hitting at any moment once he's put back in the lineup.

 

You can't tell if a player is overmatched in just 28 plate appearances.

[Elrhino]

It was only a matter of time before this trade rumor returned. Boston is ready to go with Ellsbury full time, and Crisp's value is next to nil at this point.

 

Tell me about it. How is it that Boston is ready to move on to Ellsbury, and yet the Cubs can't wait to move Pie back to Iowa?

Probably because Ellsbury is a much, much, much better player than Pie right now, and likely in the future.

 

Gammons sounds like the typical fan who believes other teams are more than willing to give up prospects for their bad contracts and garbage. It's one thing if the Cubs at a black hole at the CF position, but I'm sure Gammons has no idea that Reed Johnson is currently swinging at .850 OPS.

[Sammy Sofa]

Johnson was mediocre at best career numbers against righties.

 

Pie has nothing left to prove in the minors.

 

Most young players need to go through growing pains as they adjust to the majors. Pie is going to learn next to nothing getting sporadic starts and late inning replacements here or there. The Cubs need to let him work it out and try and adjust for an extended period of time, or they need to trade him while he still has significant value. The team can afford to have one fulltime player on the roster learning the ropes, especialy if they do the smart thing and upgrade at SS.

 

The problem is and was that there simply are no realistic options for upgrading SS. Who are we going to trade for that is going to produce at a level that would allow us to put an automatic out in the lineup for two plus months. I'm leaning toward trading Pie. He's the type of player that is hard for a contending team to break in because, as has been stated over and over, he is the type of player that is going to struggle for several months at least before he starts producing. If he's not going to be given the chance, he needs to be traded NOW, while he still has value. The Cubs gain nothing putting him on the bench and he's already destroyed AAA so there's no point in sending him down.

 

How do you know there are no realistic options to upgrade at SS? The Cubs have shown zero indication of even attempting to do so or think about doing it...we have no idea what teams are willing to deal. That said, as much as I would rather see a better SS brought in, Theriot is producing at the moment, which makes it even dumber that the Cubs don't play Pie as much as possible. This team CAN afford to have one slot used mostly to help a promising young players exactly because they are a contending team.

[RedFlash]

Probably because Ellsbury is a much, much, much better player than Pie right now, and likely in the future.

 

I won't say that, but I will say Ellsbury is more likely to reach his potential in an organization that loves it's young players, as opposed to the Cubs who don't have a clue how to developed young player.

 

Gammons sounds like the typical fan who believes other teams are more than willing to give up prospects for their bad contracts and garbage. It's one thing if the Cubs at a black hole at the CF position, but I'm sure Gammons has no idea that Reed Johnson is currently swinging at .850 OPS.

 

Which is why I seriously doubt the Cubs will: A. Trade Gallagher AND a prospect for Crisp and B. Eat all of Crisp's contract. If that deal happens like that, then I promise you Hendry is asking for the Red Sox to either: A. Eat some of the contract or B. Give up a good prospect like Masterson.