Wood closing in on closer role

[BudHouse]

Let's see, there are three candidates for the Cubs closer, which one do you choose?:

 

A. Has 65 career saves, 238 games finished.

 

B. Pitched in 65 games in 2007, 1-save and 6 games finished.

 

C. Pitched in 22 games in 2007, finished 2 and has 0 career saves.

 

Not even close.

[rocket]

Let's see, there are three candidates for the Cubs closer, which one do you choose?:

 

A. Has 65 career saves, 238 games finished.

 

B. Pitched in 65 games in 2007, 1-save and 6 games finished.

 

C. Pitched in 22 games in 2007, finished 2 and has 0 career saves.

 

Not even close.

 

i'd like to see important stats before i'd make a choice

[CuseCubFan69]

Let's see, there are three candidates for the Cubs closer, which one do you choose?:

 

A. Has 65 career saves, 238 games finished.

 

B. Pitched in 65 games in 2007, 1-save and 6 games finished.

 

C. Pitched in 22 games in 2007, finished 2 and has 0 career saves.

 

Not even close.

 

i'd like to see important stats before i'd make a choice

 

A. Doesn't blink when attacked

 

B. Was once a catcher

 

C. Is a good bowler

 

Did that help?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Let's see, there are three candidates for the Cubs closer, which one do you choose?:

 

A. Has 65 career saves, 238 games finished.

 

B. Pitched in 65 games in 2007, 1-save and 6 games finished.

 

C. Pitched in 22 games in 2007, finished 2 and has 0 career saves.

 

Not even close.

 

i'd like to see important stats before i'd make a choice

 

A. Doesn't blink when attacked

 

B. Was once a catcher

 

C. Is a good bowler

 

Did that help?

shoe sizes, plz...

[apete6]

Let's see, there are three candidates for the Cubs closer, which one do you choose?:

 

A. Has 65 career saves, 238 games finished.

 

B. Pitched in 65 games in 2007, 1-save and 6 games finished.

 

C. Pitched in 22 games in 2007, finished 2 and has 0 career saves.

 

Not even close.

 

Dusty, is that you?

 

"Gotta go with the experience, dude"

[Banedon]

Let's see, there are three candidates for the Cubs closer, which one do you choose?:

 

A. Has 65 career saves, 238 games finished.

 

B. Pitched in 65 games in 2007, 1-save and 6 games finished.

 

C. Pitched in 22 games in 2007, finished 2 and has 0 career saves.

 

Not even close.

 

If you could trade for this guy as closer, would you?

 

129 career saves, 61 games pitched in 2007, with 8 saves.

 

 

Antonio Alfonseca had a 5.44 ERA with 5 blown saves, a 1.85 WHIP, and 85 ERA+

 

 

Lots and lots of bad relievers that have saves.

[BudHouse]

Prefer to have someone close who has at least done it once in his career.

[CuseCubFan69]

Prefer to have someone close who has at least done it once in his career.

 

Why? Almost all closers have to start at zero saves sometime. I'm fine with Woody or Marmol.

[Banedon]

Prefer to have someone close who has at least done it once in his career.

 

Why? Lots of guys have closed once or twice in their career...what makes them more qualified?

 

Do you think that Kerry Wood may crumble under the pressure? The guy has started and won playoff games, I think he can close a game against the Brewers in April. By the time we get to a playoff stretch, he'll have closed plenty and will have the "closer experience" you crave.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

Prefer to have someone close who has at least done it once in his career.

rofl

[Soul]

Is someone seriously trying to argue against Woody because of *lack* of experience?

 

Please tell me I misinterpreted something.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

This thread would be so much better if CubbieRich still posted here.

[cbbryan]

Prefer to have someone close who has at least done it once in his career.

 

Why? Almost all closers have to start at zero saves sometime. I'm fine with Woody or Marmol.

 

Almost all closers start at zero? lol

[Guest]

Prefer to have someone close who has at least done it once in his career.

 

Why? Almost all closers have to start at zero saves sometime. I'm fine with Woody or Marmol.

Almost all, Cuse?

 

Do some guys get a headstart with like, 10 saves, to start their career? :D

[Guest]

Prefer to have someone close who has at least done it once in his career.

 

Why? Almost all closers have to start at zero saves sometime. I'm fine with Woody or Marmol.

 

Almost all closers start at zero? lol

Damn - a faster smart-aleck than me.

[FergieJ31]

Not to spoil anyone's picayune fun, but Cuse's statement is logically and semantically fine.

 

If instead he'd said "Almost all pitchers start with zero saves.", then we can have some yucks. But by the time a pitcher achieves closer status, it's not uncommon for him to have some saves under his belt. In fact it'd be rare to not have any saves by that time, wouldn't it?

 

Incidentally, like most here on NSBB, I think "closer" is a bogus position and saves are a ridiculous stat. But for purely emotional reasons I'm really happy to see Wood get the spot. It's a status role, like it or not. It'll be nice seeing him on the mound for game-winning outs, and getting the notoriety that goes along with the role.

[David]

Not to spoil anyone's picayune fun, but Cuse's statement is logically and semantically fine.

 

If instead he'd said "Almost all pitchers start with zero saves.", then we can have some yucks. But by the time a pitcher achieves closer status, it's not uncommon for him to have some saves under his belt. In fact it'd be rare to not have any saves by that time, wouldn't it?

 

Incidentally, like most here on NSBB, I think "closer" is a bogus position and saves are a ridiculous stat. But for purely emotional reasons I'm really happy to see Wood get the spot. It's a status role, like it or not. It'll be nice seeing him on the mound for game-winning outs, and getting the notoriety that goes along with the role.

 

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the situation perfectly.

[rawaction]

Prefer to have someone close who has at least done it once in his career.

 

Why? Almost all closers have to start at zero saves sometime. I'm fine with Woody or Marmol.

Almost all, Cuse?

 

Do some guys get a headstart with like, 10 saves, to start their career? :D

 

No, but you can get a save without being the closer. Marmol has career saves, but has never been a "closer" per se.

[KingCubsFan]

Not to spoil anyone's picayune fun, but Cuse's statement is logically and semantically fine.

 

If instead he'd said "Almost all pitchers start with zero saves.", then we can have some yucks. But by the time a pitcher achieves closer status, it's not uncommon for him to have some saves under his belt. In fact it'd be rare to not have any saves by that time, wouldn't it?

 

Incidentally, like most here on NSBB, I think "closer" is a bogus position and saves are a ridiculous stat. But for purely emotional reasons I'm really happy to see Wood get the spot. It's a status role, like it or not. It'll be nice seeing him on the mound for game-winning outs, and getting the notoriety that goes along with the role.

 

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the situation perfectly.

Serious question: How can people watch LaTroy Hawking blow a whole season in one week in 2004, and then come back and say that it essentially doesn't matter who the closer is? The closer shouldn't be your best reliever, but he definitely has to have a certain mindset and willingness to close

[BudHouse]

Not to spoil anyone's picayune fun, but Cuse's statement is logically and semantically fine.

 

If instead he'd said "Almost all pitchers start with zero saves.", then we can have some yucks. But by the time a pitcher achieves closer status, it's not uncommon for him to have some saves under his belt. In fact it'd be rare to not have any saves by that time, wouldn't it?

 

Incidentally, like most here on NSBB, I think "closer" is a bogus position and saves are a ridiculous stat. But for purely emotional reasons I'm really happy to see Wood get the spot. It's a status role, like it or not. It'll be nice seeing him on the mound for game-winning outs, and getting the notoriety that goes along with the role.

 

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the situation perfectly.

Serious question: How can people watch LaTroy Hawking blow a whole season in one week in 2004, and then come back and say that it essentially doesn't matter who the closer is? The closer shouldn't be your best reliever, but he definitely has to have a certain mindset and willingness to close

 

Don't confuse the Kerry crowd with any facts. Closing is easy, Kerry will do it 162 games this year. Didn't you see him fan #78 and #66 in the 7th yesterday in Mesa? Wow! Saves are meaningless, as long as Kerry gets to pitch. Wheee..

 

There are more than 180+ active pitchers with at least one save in the majors. But Kerry isn't one of them. But this crowd wants to hand the closer role over to an unproven, untested and injury prone thrower. Oh look..it's Sarah..wave at the camera for all your fans in Louisiana. Yipee..saves are easy.

[CubColtPacer]

Not to spoil anyone's picayune fun, but Cuse's statement is logically and semantically fine.

 

If instead he'd said "Almost all pitchers start with zero saves.", then we can have some yucks. But by the time a pitcher achieves closer status, it's not uncommon for him to have some saves under his belt. In fact it'd be rare to not have any saves by that time, wouldn't it?

 

Incidentally, like most here on NSBB, I think "closer" is a bogus position and saves are a ridiculous stat. But for purely emotional reasons I'm really happy to see Wood get the spot. It's a status role, like it or not. It'll be nice seeing him on the mound for game-winning outs, and getting the notoriety that goes along with the role.

 

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the situation perfectly.

Serious question: How can people watch LaTroy Hawking blow a whole season in one week in 2004, and then come back and say that it essentially doesn't matter who the closer is? The closer shouldn't be your best reliever, but he definitely has to have a certain mindset and willingness to close

 

I agree. Closers have to be 2 things. 1) They have to be good mentally, and 2) They have to be a good reliever. Closers always come in with a small lead, so they are in almost all the important games.

 

That doesn't mean your closer should be your best reliever. In fact, the ideal thing is to have 3 or 4 guys who are strong enough mentally to be closers and who are all pitching in only tight games. If you do this, then you can pick the 3rd or 4th best one to be your closer, and save your top 2 for situations with runners on. You also want to save your high strikeout guys and low walk guys for coming into games with runners on. Your other 3 or 4 relievers pitch when you have a big lead or a 2+ run deficit.

 

The Cubs are blessed in this department. I believe all 3 rumored can close as far as having the mental makeup. When choosing between them, here's my thought process:

 

Marmol is your best reliever, so you really don't want to waste him at closer. He also is your best strikeout guy, so he is your best choice to bring in when you need a strikeout in the 7th or 8th inning with runners on.

 

Wood is a high strikeout guy, but he also is a high walk guy. That's not a good attribute for someone who you want to bring in with runners on. Wood is much better when he's allowed to start an inning, put runners on, but get out of the jam due to his high K rate and good stuff. IMO, if he can pitch back to back days this makes him the ideal closer. He always gets to start the inning and has free reign to get in and out of jams, and he's also effective in that spot.

 

Howry has experience closing. He's not as big of a strikeout guy as Wood or Marmol. He's also a guy who you like to start an inning with, but for a different reason. He gets hitters out by precise location rather than good stuff, and so if he's brought on with runners on it's easier for hitters to get a bat on the ball for sacrifice flies or other things like that. At the same time, I would not put Howry into the closers role for this reason. We saw last year that he is either on or he's off. If his location is right, he can be dominating. When it's wrong and he gets into jams, his straight fastball continues to just catch too much of the plate and he usually has to get pulled before the inning is over. Managers don't have quick hooks for their closer, so I think Howry is a bad choice for the closer candidate. Let him pitch the 7th or 8th, and pull him out if after 2 or 3 hitters he's doing badly because his control is off.

[JimSorgi]

Not to spoil anyone's picayune fun, but Cuse's statement is logically and semantically fine.

 

If instead he'd said "Almost all pitchers start with zero saves.", then we can have some yucks. But by the time a pitcher achieves closer status, it's not uncommon for him to have some saves under his belt. In fact it'd be rare to not have any saves by that time, wouldn't it?

 

Incidentally, like most here on NSBB, I think "closer" is a bogus position and saves are a ridiculous stat. But for purely emotional reasons I'm really happy to see Wood get the spot. It's a status role, like it or not. It'll be nice seeing him on the mound for game-winning outs, and getting the notoriety that goes along with the role.

 

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the situation perfectly.

Serious question: How can people watch LaTroy Hawking blow a whole season in one week in 2004, and then come back and say that it essentially doesn't matter who the closer is? The closer shouldn't be your best reliever, but he definitely has to have a certain mindset and willingness to close

 

Don't confuse the Kerry crowd with any facts. Closing is easy, Kerry will do it 162 games this year. Didn't you see him fan #78 and #66 in the 7th yesterday in Mesa? Wow! Saves are meaningless, as long as Kerry gets to pitch. Wheee..

 

There are more than 180+ active pitchers with at least one save in the majors. But Kerry isn't one of them. But this crowd wants to hand the closer role over to an unproven, untested and injury prone thrower. Oh look..it's Sarah..wave at the camera for all your fans in Louisiana. Yipee..saves are easy.

You have a lot of confidence in the Cubs.

[jersey cubs fan]

Closers always come in with a small lead

 

Not really.

[jersey cubs fan]

Serious question: How can people watch LaTroy Hawking blow a whole season in one week in 2004,

 

 

Are you talking about the time when Dusty said he was unavailable due to fatigue? But then waited for Ryan Dempster to put 2 runners on base and then summon Hawkins from the pen, with a rushed warm up session, only to blow it against the Mets?

 

It's not that it doesn't matter who closes, what doesn't matter are the absurd qualities that were listed earlier in this thread. Howry's experience does not give him a lick of advantage of Marmol or Wood. Their lack of saves, a made up stat, does not mean they can't close. If Wood somehow can't handle the position mentally and starts to blow games, replace him with Howry or Marmol. But you don't just make decisions about jobs based on who has the most experience doing it. That's the dumbest possible option.

[CubColtPacer]

Closers always come in with a small lead

 

Not really.

 

I wanted to imply not a blowout, and not usually a deficit either. If I really felt closers came in with only 1 run leads every time, then of course I would advocate that the best reliever be there. I know they don't do that though, and that's why I said in ideal situations your best reliever should not be your closer.

 

To me, reliever importance should be this:

1 run lead

tied

2 run lead

1 run deficit

3 run lead

2 run deficit

etc.

 

Closers typically only pitch with 1,2, or 3 run leads, but only occasionally in a tied ballgame. I'd like my best reliever to pitch earlier and primarily pitch in 1 run lead, tied, or 2 run lead ballgames. The best reliever also typically will have more flexibility than the closer, in which the best reliever will be well suited into coming in games with runners on in addition to the easier job of starting an inning, while closers only have to do that easier job.

Edited March 17, 2008 by CubColtPacer